Seems Brennan is not alone

[Richard]

I think the players lost hope when Mitchell's appointment was announced. The rot didn't just set in starting at the top, it was introduced by the CSA. The players gave Mitchell a chance to show what he could do this time around and he blew it, I don't blame the players for finally speaking out frankly. Before the whole campaign imploded this group was lauded as Canada's best ever. They deserves better than a head coach whose coaching career pinnacle was as the not very successful former coach of the Vancouver 86ers. The last U-20 campaign hardly qualifies as a coaching success for the man.

[VPjr]

I have the same feelings about Dwayne's comments that I had for Jim's comments. I agree with Dwayne's opinions about Dale and I'm glad he made them public but I would have prefered he made his feelings public immediately after the Mexico game rather than before the next game.

Massive Attack, you wrote "I think the players gave up last year, as soon as Canada was eliminated from the U-20 World Cup."

I'd argue that the core of the team never "gave up" (despite what some may think) but the problems with this team go back MANY months and the negativity within the group has been percolating as far back as the South Africa trip.

Jonovision, you said that DDR was part of the hiring process. This is not correct. He was brought into the process (likely by Linford) as a representative for the players when it came to making a decision about Simoes. It is my understanding that he had NOTHING to do or say when it came to Mitchell getting the job handed to him by Montagliani et al.

I really wish this whole ugly situation had not come to a head at all. I wish, as someone wrote, that they could have sucked it up and succeeded despite the coach. Sadly that didn't happen. and I can appreciate that there are those who believe the players should be criticized for not digging deep to find a way to succeed. But I can understand the overwhelming sense of frustration of the players, especially from the guys who will be too old to be part of the next qualifying campaign and I know that these guys are not just speaking for themselves. If there is one thing virtually this whole team agrees on, its that they don't want DM and never really did (despite some tepidly positive comments when he was first hired).

[Vic]

^^ brilliant Richard. 100%

[JamboAl]

I'm really ticked off at all the sniping by JB and DDR, especially the timing of it and the fact that these two are senior players in the team. The CSA is amateurish, we all know that. The preparation wasn't good and even the coach has been a bit of a nightmare. But get your finger out of your butt, go out there and be professional; AND leave it behind closed doors until we are officially done.

[Vancouver Fan]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I think I'm officially more depressed now than I was post Canada v Honduras in Montreal. I've devoted so much of my own time and energy to follow and support this team and I get paid back with a group of gutless losers. It gets really hard to support the domestic game sometimes and this isn't making it easier.

Definitely feel the same way. What does De Ro hope to accomplish with his comments? The timing is so incredibly bad. At least he could have waited until after today's results in Honduras. He sounds like he's given up and therefore should not be included for the Edmonton match even if they win tonight. If I'm not mistaken this is De Ro's third qualifying attempt with 3 different managers. What has his contributions been? I'm tired of players who don't take responsibility for there own poor play. Grizz is so right. Mitchell called up all the right players. What Mitchell has not been able to do is perform a heart transplant on some of his key players.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Massive Attack, you wrote "I think the players gave up last year, as soon as Canada was eliminated from the U-20 World Cup."

I'd argue that the core of the team never "gave up" (despite what some may think) but the problems with this team go back MANY months and the negativity within the group has been percolating as far back as the South Africa trip.

Well, its pure speculation on my part for the start of the downfall, but when you read DeRo make comments about Canada's U-20 performance last summer it leads me to believe that the seeds of doubt were planted back then.

One thing is certain, the Estonia and South Africa performances should have quashed anyones excitement and hope for this team.

[Vic]

"What Mitchell has not been able to do is perform a heart transplant on some of his key players."

I guess the U20's had no heart too.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

"What Mitchell has not been able to do is perform a heart transplant on some of his key players."

I guess the U20's had no heart too.

No, they didn't have much talent compare to the other teams they were playing (specialy Chile and Austria).

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by fishman

How many of us recall Roy Keane's famous showdown with Mick McCarthy in Saipan?

I find it highly ironic that you bring up the Roy Keane incident. One of Keane's complaints was that his fellow players spent one night drinking with journalists until the wee hours. This was in the middle of their pre-tournament training. Keane didn't agree with the commitment the other players were showing there.

I wonder how Keane would feel about the party our own players attended after the Honduras debacle?

[Richard]

I put myself in the shoes of the players. Rumours of Simoes and crew being hired swirl around then they get Mitchell who showed just what he could do at the U-20 WC. Many folks here criticised Mitchell's onfield tactics - if the players don't abide by the coach's orders they risk being benched or dropped so they have no choice but to play his style. I would be truly pissed off with the whole situation if I was a senior MNT player who has spent a career playing under coaches every one of whom was probably more talented and experienced than Mitchell and this is probably my last shot at making it to the WC. I was aghast at Mitchell's appointment at the outset and I have seen nothing since that would change my view.

[redhat]

Well. Makes me want to support the existing players even more:

those who show up to represent the country despite the adverse

conditions and poor timing of certain players' PR motives.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

Definitely feel the same way. What does De Ro hope to accomplish with his comments? The timing is so incredibly bad. At least he could have waited until after today's results in Honduras. He sounds like he's given up and therefore should not be included for the Edmonton match even if they win tonight. If I'm not mistaken this is De Ro's third qualifying attempt with 3 different managers. What has his contributions been? I'm tired of players who don't take responsibility for there own poor play. Grizz is so right. Mitchell called up all the right players. What Mitchell has not been able to do is perform a heart transplant on some of his key players.

FWIW I am firmly in this camp. Grizz is hitting the nail on the head with his comments in this thread about DDR. To call him pro-coach or too sympathetic to the CSA is pure BS, as his loud (and lasting) criticsms of Yallop have proven. He's calling it perfectly as it is, as is Massive Attack - we want to love these players (I am also a huge supporter of DDR, for instance) but what has DDR ever done for us in WCQ, especially this cycle, when one could expect he would be one of two or three leaders both on and off the field? Why can't we hear at least one player who is griping about Mitchell say, in the interview, something that acknowledges how poor their own output has been. Maybe that is what Onstad was doing - but he sure didnt make it very clear the way he went out.

My biggest regret is that this is the last we will see of the likes of half of squad. No send-offs and no last hurrahs. Pity it seems inevitable to end like this.

If I wasnt looking forward to the certain pain and suffering (that will be the second half of this cycle) before, I am dreading it now.

PS The latest possible moment when it would have made any sense to bring in Holger (who I am pretty sure is unemployed, btw - http://www.bangkokpost.com/080708_Sports/08Jul2008_sport31.php ) was after the Honduras game. Talking about him coming in now is crazy talk, unless you plan on having him for 5+ more years (which may in turn be crazy talk). The only interim manager that could have made any sense was Hart, and I am not so sure that he is completely free of criticism at this stage either.

[Vic]

Too true, telling the senior men's players they have Simoes and then taking it away and giving them the youth team's laughing stock was destined for failure.

[Massive Attack]

Great post Nolando.

Before this WCQ campaign started, if you asked me who my favourite Canada players were, I'd probably respond Julian De Guzman or Dwayne De Rosario. If you asked me who my favourite TFC player was, I would have answered Jim Brennan for sure.

I also agree on your point about Holger. Its too late to bring him in now and I think it is even too early to bring him in for a 2014 run. I would hire him in 2011 leading into that year's Gold Cup.

Man talking about the future that far ahead is even more depressing.

[Vic]

"I've devoted so much of my own time and energy to follow and support this team and I get paid back with a group of gutless losers."

- Massive Attack -

Put me down as one who doesn't think he's "calling it perfectly."

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

"I've devoted so much of my own time and energy to follow and support this team and I get paid back with a group of gutless losers."

- Massive Attack -

Put me down as one who doesn't think he's "calling it perfectly."

I'm with you Vic.

It's easy to call people names when you are anonymously posting on a forum. I fully understand that some people are totally gutted by the team's poor play and the overall lack of leadership and yet another WC where Canada won't be involved but to call the players "gutless losers" is out of line in my books.

[crashvegas]

I don't know why some of us on this board take umbrage with what DeRo and Jimmy are saying regarding the coaching of Dale Mitchell and the CSA's organization of the men's team.

I for one applaud what Jimmy Brennan has done because he has chosen to publicly showcase the ineptitude of the CSA - Mitchell is taking the brunt only because he is the CSA's coach and IMO the frontline representative of the CSA. (Now if Stephen Hart had been chosen to coach after the Gold Cup performance I would not refer to the national team coach as the CSA rep because the choice would be based on performance and not a misguided board decision.)

The timing of Jimmy's comment, I beleive, is also timely. It is at a point in which all of Canadian soccer supporters are paying attention as well as when non-soccer media are paying attention. Jimmy's truthful and overdue statements give more desperately needed focus on the problems we all know the CSA has been creating for soccer in Canada.

And now DeRo has also added a few more correct observations reinforcing again what we as diehard supporters already know - Mitchell is the wrong choice and the CSA cannot expect any Canadian soccer success if they are the ones to guide this magnificent country.

And again, the timing is perfect. There is focussed media attention from the non-soccer peoples.

I know we are desperate for the team to qualify and represent us at the World Cup. I know these comments made by national team members are not usually conducive to a productive atmosphere, especially when the team still has a chance to advance. However, as a Voyageur - a supporter of Canadian soccer - I am done countenancing the folly of the CSA and the decisions they make in guiding that which I love.

I will not villify Jim Brennan or Dwayne DeRosario for attempting to affect change and illustrate the sad state of affairs 'the program' is currently in. Because, at a time of important media focus, they are standing up and outlining the incompetence of the CSA - poor organization, ineffective hiring, and inability to fire poor performers.

These players are starting to exercise their power. They are doing what we have wanted, wished, and demanded - they are calling shenanigans on the CSA.

And I cannot believe that so many of you are hanging Jimmy and DeRo out to dry.

Be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Sorry, I usually like your posts but have to once again call BS

.....blah...blah...blah...

Well, in my defense I did lead by writing that I "might" be fishing.

Be Champions!

[Richard]

After this campaign is over and what little media focus soccer does attract in this country has moved elsewhere, nobody will pay much attention to Brennan and DeRosario's mutterings, certainly what they might say would have far less impact. Now is exactly the right time to speak out. Let me also put on record that because I am showing empathy for the players' frustrations expressed or otherwise, with the setup under which they are expected to perform, it does not mean that I will not root for Team Canada when they hit the field no matter who is in the lineup.

[CoachRich]

Having the players speak out at a critical time as a WQC is very important as it draws attention in the public arena not only to the needs of those players but to the needs of the whole CSA system.

Regardless of the timing the long term rescuing or restructuring of the Canadian system needs to start & if it needs to embarrass or bring the CSA house of cards down in front of the public it is the best time to do change.

Maybe this is the time for the MP & WP to bring down the house. Maybe this is the time for the players to form their Player Associations so they can be a part of the system & have some input vs being 2nd class citizens.

The Women's Program although quiet on the CSA side is not elsewhere. The WP have been told nothing of any CSA plan for the continuing of whole Women's Program (17-Seniors) Players are leaving the ship going back to Pro's, college & work knowing nothing of the future so they can't make plans to continue for their country.

To top the latest wind down of a CSA program, the CSA supposedly for the WP was presented a proposal prior to the Seniors break up by a interested group. It was for the next 4 years to build out the whole WP for the next WC & Olympics. Budget $2.5M over the period w/ the CSA ponying up only $600K over that period. Program (17 - Seniors) was to cover residency top to bottom & a Canadian WPS. CSA said no.

I've talked to a few of the V's on this proposal & would like to find out more hence the throw out as a rumor. The CSA isn't just about the MP or the WP, it's about developing the sport for the country & the kids that have dreams.

[Vancouver Fan]

Once again,it's not what the players are saying but the timing of the comments. Once your team is mathematically eliminated then it is time to vent ones frustrations with the leadership. Questioning the choice of the manager when you may be involved in a vital home match that could put Canada back in the race is just wrong.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

They deserves better than a head coach whose coaching career pinnacle was as the not very successful former coach of the Vancouver 86ers.

Nonsense. Coaching Canadian U20 team to Canada's best finish ever in a World Cup at any level would be considered the pinnacle of his coaching career, as any knowledgeable Canadian soccer fan should know.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

No, they didn't have much talent compare to the other teams they were playing (specialy Chile and Austria).

Funny, they had enough heart and talent to make it through to the Finals tournament.

What happened to it once they got there? Did it just go away by itself? Or was it coached out of them.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

Once again,it's not what the players are saying but the timing of the comments. Once your team is mathematically eliminated then it is time to vent ones frustrations with the leadership. Questioning the choice of the manager when you may be involved in a vital home match that could put Canada back in the race is just wrong.

And even if you are going to make these comments while your team is still alive....make them right after the loss to Mexico when there is still time to change things prior to the last three games. Or is the argument of the apologists in this thread going to be that nobody in the media was going to listen to the players then either?

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Funny, they had enough heart and talent to make it through to the Finals tournament.

What happened to it once they got there? Did it just go away by itself? Or was it coached out of them.

I believe the hosts qualify for the final without having to get it done on the field.

What are you on about?

You can say what you want about the players but it was Mitchell's job to select and prepare a team for that 2007 tournament. He had 4 years and plenty of support (compared to past managers) and failed miserably. He had no answers when faced with adversity. None.