Gian-Luca Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I recommend listening to this. After about 10 minutes of Euro2008 discussion, James weighs in on Canada's chances to qualify, spills some beans on Ali Gerba, TFC's job thus far with Canadians, Ottawa's viability in MLS & more. http://www.thescore.ca/blogs/footy/index.asp?name=footy/2008/06/footy_show_podc_51.html#more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 wow, that was one of the most insightful commentary about the Canadian scene I have heard in while - part of it was because the questions came from the supporters rather than clueless and boring questions from the media. James also gives props to Voyageurs for informing him about players playing overseas when he was running the national youth team. He had me also excited envisoning 5000 TFC supporters invading Ottawa and Montreal for MLS road games. As James said, if this happens, it will be a cultural game changer especially for mainstream sports media and fans not particularly tuned to the Cdn footy scene. it's a must listen for all Voyageurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 G-L just posted this because he had a question answered. Just kidding. PJ provides a realistic, optimistic primer on the Canadian soccer scene. Paul provides a perfect logical balance that many partisan followers don't give. His take on the CIS/NCAA vs Euro academies in terms of development was particularly insightful. He weighs in on Iain Hume (somebody's been looking at that thread) Kevin McKenna (whether it's too late to introduce him back into the lineup) and why Ali Gerba can't seem to keep steady employment. Discusses how the players should take a glass half full outlook on playing at BMO and not defeating themselves before the game. This interview really touches on most of the important Canadian soccer issues with a lot of common sense, something that is woefully absent from many agenda based fans. Definately required listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 DigzTFC, awesome question! PJ gives the Vees board respect in discovering players. Finally someone admits what we already knew. Good interview. Insightful comments on Gerba too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Loved listening to that and really appreciate the post. I like Paul James but have to question his position on playing at BMO. He said something to the effect of "most of the Canadian players have been born and bred on field turf" Really?? In addition, I didnt hear any decent counterarguments against having all three games in Montreal, as many of our best players have requested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy G-L justed posted this because he had a questioned answered. Just kidding. Ha! I knew someone would make a crack like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Ha! I knew someone would make a crack like that. I want to know when they're going to have you on the podcast as was suggested in a previous edition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 That was a good listen... I liked his take on BMO, and his belief in Canadian talent being available to support more MLS teams. However, speaking of 'agenda-based' standpoints (he coaches at York U), I think he's down the wrong path by saying we should be looking at the collegiate system as the prime development path of the future. He points to the NCAA as the example to follow, when many in the US have pretty much come to the conclusion the the NCAA is not producing players of high enough quality to support the demand. The US is moving away from the collegiate system as a professional player development source with the introduction of MLS academies and the USDA (US Development Academy) system. I don't see how a system that operates 3 months a year can be the best vehicle for player development... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan DigzTFC, awesome question! PJ gives the Vees board respect in discovering players. Finally someone admits what we already knew. Good interview. Insightful comments on Gerba too. I wasn't sure what to make of his comments on Gerba. I liked how he discussed the striker's attitude problems from Gerba's younger days, implying that a reputation can be hard to shake within coaching circles, and the importance of putting the past behind them if the player has taken steps towards the maturation necessary to be a successful professional. That said, prior to talking about Gerba, when PJ spoke of the importance of having a quality target man in DM's system he mentioned Friend first, then Olivier Occean, and then showed some hesitation in trying to recall Gerba's name as the final member of the list. He probably just had a typical brain cramp on name recall, but it's still interesting that he mentioned Occean more easily, considering he has featured far less than Gerba over the last year and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Metro I want to know when they're going to have you on the podcast as was suggested in a previous edition! That's supposed to be a one-off, a WCQ preview podcast closer to when the semi-final round begins. As they advertised, we'll be updating the list of the ten worst calls ever to screw Canada for the show, a good way of going through pre-qualifying therapy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by L.T. However, speaking of 'agenda-based' standpoints (he coaches at York U), I think he's down the wrong path by saying we should be looking at the collegiate system as the prime development path of the future. He points to the NCAA as the example to follow, when many in the US have pretty much come to the conclusion the the NCAA is not producing players of high enough quality to support the demand. The US is moving away from the collegiate system as a professional player development source with the introduction of MLS academies and the USDA (US Development Academy) system. I don't see how a system that operates 3 months a year can be the best vehicle for player development... To be fair, I don't think he was trying to suggest it was the top form of player development for Canada (I think he mentioned the pro clubs in that regard), moreso that it was another source of Canadian player development that could be and should be improved upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 That was great show! really enjoyed it. I pretty much agree with PJ regarding Hume and Gerba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razcle Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Very insightful. Thanks for the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca To be fair, I don't think he was trying to suggest it was the top form of player development for Canada (I think he mentioned the pro clubs in that regard), moreso that it was another source of Canadian player development that could be and should be improved upon. I agree here. One more channel of development is good, and there is no reason not to make it as best as possible. In a long term sense it also provides us with a breed of 'soccer citizen' we need more of. Univ + high level soccer = good for the community. The best thing to do, since school is relatively cheap here would be to actually use it to our advantage. Some kind of scholarship/pro soccer combination that gives the benefits of Uni and pro soccer at the same time. An academic system that takes kids in at the teens and sees them through uni could be a very valuable program if set up right. It would provide us possibly with some very talented foreigners to throw in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca To be fair, I don't think he was trying to suggest it was the top form of player development for Canada (I think he mentioned the pro clubs in that regard), moreso that it was another source of Canadian player development that could be and should be improved upon. I agree with Gian-Luca here. Plus, if we are going to mimic the American collegiate system with our universities, while the official season is only 3-4 months, the players are training and playing exhibition matches for (approx.) another 5-6 months of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianTraveller Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I'll play devil's advocate. While I agree that CIS could develop players, in very much the same way that Junior "A" hockey develops players on a separate system from the AAA Bantam-Major Junior-Minor Pro system, it is extremely unlikely to happen in CIS soccer. There is no money, there is no line-of-sight to money, there is no attachment to Canadian universities in the way that Americans are very attached (and highly committed financially) to universities, and if any of those things change then CIS football and men's basketball will benefit LONG before men's soccer would. It's like hoping that our men's soccer team will set foot on the moon. Yes, it is technically possible...but it so unlikely to occur that it isn't worthy of consideration. Unless someone comes up with about $5,000,000 and invests it solely in CIS soccer (and explicitly exclude it from CIS general funds) it will simply never happen. Paul's comments about full-time coaches at each CIS institution demonstrated how far away he is from the reality of CIS sports today - some schools don't have a full-time basketball or football coach. Soccer might be...sixth? eight? in the pecking list at a typical school. (And full-time coaches is the easiest part of the equation - simply have PhD professors coach the soccer team. You know a lot of PhD candidates who have the experience of pro or semi-pro soccer who can step in and coach at 50+ universities in Canada?) That's not to say that CIS programs should be shut down. They are valuable places for athletes to play and obtain an education, they can allow players to continue to develop and perhaps find a late-bloomer. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of these North American soccer academies - especially the USDA - had a "mature player" program to continue developing players at age 23? The idea that a 23-year-old is too old to develop into a pro is rather short-sighted, IMHO. Not the highest priority, but if you give a recent graduate the opportunity to join a USL or MLS team as a reserve, while receiving targeted instruction and development, it has to beat joining a third-tier league in Europe. If you can get five quality years out of a player who is more likely to go to work instead of pursuing a soccer path, even if it's only at the club level and they never get to the national level, I have to think there's value in Canada where we have very few "role models" to follow closely. Wouldn't it be easier for TFC to recruit a quality, mature Canadian who has spent their entire soccer life in North America, than someone who has spent much of their soccer career overseas? Would it be easier for a USL Whitecaps/Impact to find a place for a developing Canadian who can work six months a year with their bachelor's degree? But you can see that this argument is pretty thin, which makes that large financial investment in CIS even less practical. As long as the NCAA offers scholarships and reasonable-quality part-time coaching (along with organized off-season development) it seems unlikely that anyone would try to replicate the system in Canada with substantial costs and marginal returns. The only thing that gets in the way is Title IX and the partial scholarships that makes attending a U.S. sports program rather expensive. (Contrary to popular belief, our typical Canadian athlete playing any sport other than football or basketball is likely paying $5,000 - $20,000 per year to attend a U.S. university "on scholarship", as are a majority of Americans.) A reasonably-priced Canadian education could keep students close-to-home if the programs could be upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Good points. You forgot to mention climate. Since the fall semester start in September, aside from a place like Victoria, for how long can you train and play soccer in Canada? 2 months? maybe three months depending on the university's location. Playing in southern Ontario in November is iffy. I'd hate to see what it's like in the Prairie provinces, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada. How do you get good at anything when you have only 8-10 weeks out of a year to hone and perfect your skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I really have liked Sharman up to now listening to his very well done interviews of various soccer personalities. Yet without getting into the details of the myriad of suspect things he said in the Euro portion of the podcast, I think he should stick to asking other more knowledgeable people about their opinions rather than giving his. The other two guys had much more knowledgeable and astute observations on the tournament. The Paul James portion was excellent even if I didn't agree 100% with everything he said. He is very knowledgeable and I like that he is willing to make criticisms of things/people that many of the more loud mouth commentators (all smoke no fire, they know who they are) would be afraid to make. One thing that bothers me a bit though I understand he may need to do this given the small size of the Canadian soccer community is at the end of a criticism there always seems to be a qualification of it such as: but to be fair to Mo Johnson and Carver..... I also have to wonder about what he said about Gerba. It certainly brings clarity to Gerba's lack of success at the club level and with coaches. Yet I wonder what evidence James has that Gerba's attitude or work ethic has improved given that once again he has been released by a club after a short time despite having performed decently. James' mentions the goals that he has scored for Canada as proof of maturity but Gerba has scored at a decent pace wherever he has gone. It seems like the goals should not be a surprise and the only surprise is that he is getting along with Mitchell which could be an indicator of Mitchell's man-management skills or just that they haven't worked together enough as much as proof that Gerba's attitude has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Good points. You forgot to mention climate. Since the fall semester start in September, aside from a place like Victoria, for how long can you train and play soccer in Canada? 2 months? maybe three months depending on the university's location. Playing in southern Ontario in November is iffy. I'd hate to see what it's like in the Prairie provinces, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada. How do you get good at anything when you have only 8-10 weeks out of a year to hone and perfect your skill? I wouldn't disagree with anything you mention generally. But the Soccer programs in the Prairies at least all run teams in the spring and summer, and the bulk of the players stay in town and play for them. Obviously though the quality of play is not as good as the university league (at least for Saskatoon). The better programs also have fairly longish winter trips down to the US. I know Alberta does, pretty certain that Calgary does also. Saskatchewan would like to do so, but am not sure if they have ever been able to do so. Also, with the development of indoor facilities (Saskatoon for example has full size indoor pitchs) some training and playing options exist throughout the winter. Again, I agree with you that CIS is unlikely to be the solution to development, just noting that the programs on IN the Prairies at least, are a little broader than you would imagine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianTraveller Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Good points. You forgot to mention climate. Since the fall semester start in September, aside from a place like Victoria, for how long can you train and play soccer in Canada? 2 months? maybe three months depending on the university's location. Playing in southern Ontario in November is iffy. I'd hate to see what it's like in the Prairie provinces, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada. How do you get good at anything when you have only 8-10 weeks out of a year to hone and perfect your skill? That's what indoor facilities are for, and in larger cities it isn't an issue. Places like Thunder Bay and Sudbury and Lethbridge might struggle more to find a facility. But compared to U.S. universities(where practically every northern school has a fantastic fieldhouse for football, and therefore for soccer) there's a substantial difference. And no, we're not talking about indoor soccer or futsal. Really tough to practice high-caliber soccer on a hockey rink. As for the short playing season, there's no question about practicing 12 months a year, with the competitive season in the fall. Do you need to actually play competitive matches 40+ weeks a year to improve your skills? A debate for a different thread...and one that would call into question any serious development occurring in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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