R - US & Brazil

[CoachRich]

http://www.fifa.com/womenworldcup/matches/round=2000001014/match=56334/summary.html

US floored by brilliant Brazil

Brazil created football history as only Brazil can, advancing to their first-ever FIFA Women's World Cup final with a majestic, Marta-inspired 4-0 win over pre-tournament favourites USA. The North Americans had gone into this match on the back of a 51-game unbeaten streak but although their cause was hindered considerably by the first-half dismissal of Shannon Boxx, they could have no complaints with the margin of this, the heaviest defeat in their history.

All the pre-match discussion had centred on Greg Ryan's decision to ditch his erstwhile first choice, Hope Solo, but replacement Briana Scurry could do nothing about Brazil's opening goal after 20 minutes. Just as in yesterday's semi-final between Germany and Norway, it was an own goal that broke the deadlock, with Leslie Osbourne the unfortunate perpetrator on this occasion. Stooping in an attempt to cut out Formiga's inswinging corner at the near post, she succeeded only in glancing the ball past her helpless keeper.

Despite the circumstances in which it arrived, the lead was merited and it took Brazil just seven minutes to double it, the peerless Marta cutting in from the right past two US defenders and unleashing a low, left-foot drive that skidded through Scurry's grasp and into the bottom right-hand corner. If Ryan's side already had a mountain to climb, their task became near-impossible as the first half entered stoppage time, when a coming-together between Boxx and Cristiane resulted in a second yellow card for the combative USA midfielder.

Ryan's response was to throw on Carli Lloyd and go to three at the back, but the US continued to find themselves engulfed beneath wave after wave of Canarinha attacks. Indeed, it was only after Daniela had burst in from the left to crash an effort just wide of the far post that Formiga found space on the same flank and, with the American defence exposed, teed up Cristiane who had time and space to side-foot home a low shot. Marta, showcasing her full repertoire of tricks and twirls, then provided the pièce de résistance with 11 minutes remaining, flicking the ball cheekily over Tina Ellerston before drilling it under Scurry's body.

Player of the Match: Marta (BRA)

[Gian-Luca]

It may not have made the difference in the end if Han's long-lost sister Hope had played, but Scurry did not look good out there, the second goal was basically a keeper error IMO. If Greg Ryan gets dumped from the US team I'm not sure I'd want him as our new coach either (as long as we are talking about new coaching candidates).

[loyola]

You never switch keepers like that in a tournament unless you have good reasons, and "Scurry is good against Brazil" isn't a good reason. That was U-12 coaching by Ryan. Don't want him in Canada either.

[terpfan68]

If Scurry saves the second goal the U.S. still gets beat by a better team. This is the only lose in what 16 games for the them. How can you drop a coach for one defeat? I thought Brazil wanted the win much more than the U.S. and played like it. The best two teams have made it to the final and that's what we want. What showed to day that a football team developed from a football country can beat a country that really only has numbers and money going for it. I would bet that those Brazilian women have touched a soccer ball 10 times or more for each touch the American women have in their entire lifetime and it showed in the match. Canada is much more like the U.S. than Brazil and we can not really hope to match them with amount of training (without coaches). I can't wait for the final to see the contrasting styles of European football vs. Brazilian football. Even the third place match should be great to see if the U.S. can bounce back.

[N-A]

A great semi final today. Brazil showed off how much skill it really has. In a previous game V Australia The Brazilians looked like they sat back after taking the lead and letting Australia back in the match. Today they kept going mainly due to the history between the teams the that sending off the USA had. Brazil really wanted that win and they wanted it bad. As for the USA. I think they had something missing during the whole tournament. I'm not entirely sure what. I don't think Solo would have done that much better then Scurry but the USA might not have had their worst defeat ever if Solo would have played. Germany and Brazil should make for a good final. The Germans haven't let a goal in and the Brazil have the skills.

[Canuck Oranje]

This should be a wake up call but my guess is that most in the sport in North America will get it wrong when assessing Brazil's women and their skills.

This victory is not about greater funding because I am sure the USA spends much more on the women's team than Brazil does.

This is not about the numbers of players to choose from because I am also sure that the USA has more female players than Brazil and Canada may also have as many female players as Brazil but I don't have numbers on that.

Some will say that Brazil has a greater soccer tradition than the USA, but I would argue that it is not the case with women's soccer. That would be true if you were talking about the men's game. In any case, it doesn't really explain it on the women's side of the game.

While I am sure that there were women playing soccer in Brazil for a while now, it still is only played by a small percentage of women. However, I expect that it will become more popular with Brazil's rapidly changing society and now if this team wins this tournament, it will be a big boost for women's soccer in Brazil and generally women in Brazil. And that's coming from someone who has spent some time around the game in Brazil.

A lesson for soccer in North America. Brazilian athletes work hard. Many around the world think there is something magical about soccer in Brazil; but, the reality is that players work hard to improve their skills and maybe harder than anywhere else in the world when it comes to the women. And Brazilian coaches know what they need to work on. This is a fact that is often overlooked.

[Richard]

Well said Canujck-Oranje. I have for a long time had a beef about the lack of individual/personal skills at all levels of Canadian soccer. This is what takes many hours of dedicated training and practise to develop and is in addition to the 1.5 hours a day of routine formal team training, something which all too often North Americans (and others) are loathe to do. We need a change of attitude if we really want to progress beyond where we are.

[terpfan68]

It's not so much that they work hard in fact it's probably not work at all. The Brazilian women are immersed in a football culture. Their fathers play, their brothers play and they play. They watch their National teams play. In fact they live and die by how their side does. I would bet with the possible exception of some beach volleyball (and regular volleyball for the tall Brazilian women) the only team sport they play in appreciable numbers is football.

Contrast this with the average Canadian who probably participates in several sports while growing up. Dancing lessons, skating lessons, piano lessons all take time and most Canadian parents want these activities for their children. Sport has always been a way to better yourself and I would be curious to know what socio-economic background the Brazilian women come from. Do you think they represent the upper middle class as members from the U.S. and Canadian squads most assuradly do? I don't think so.

But I don't think the Brazilians consider it "work" they just like to play football.

[Richard]

Work or play it's the attitude, time and effort put in that makes the difference which is what I was trying to say.

[Alberto7]

When I read that Ryan was going to start Scurry ahead of Solo, I nearly fell off my chair. The only reason I would have started Scurry is if Solo was injured. Period! What pathetic coaching. You go with the people who got you there(anybody remember Nick De Santis the Impact not putting Gbeke in the second game against Puerto Rico until the 70th minute....)

[terpfan68]

Yes and if Scurry had shut them down you would have said she should have been playing in all of the other games. Scurry is a great keeper and that game was lost by the whole U.S. team. Monday morning quarterbacking is very easy to do even if it is Thursday. Brazil was going to win that game no matter who was in goal.

[Richard]

I think Ryan went into a bit of a panic mode when it came to facing Brazil for all the marbles and that emotion permeated the whole team. The USA was well and truly thrashed this time.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

It's not so much that they work hard in fact it's probably not work at all. The Brazilian women are immersed in a football culture. Their fathers play, their brothers play and they play. They watch their National teams play. In fact they live and die by how their side does. I would bet with the possible exception of some beach volleyball (and regular volleyball for the tall Brazilian women) the only team sport they play in appreciable numbers is football.

Psst ... its Futsall .... look at the past of the players.. you will find its Futsall you know the game the CSA hates that the OSA hates that know one realizes is the key to the skills that the Brasilinhas ..show.

[Richard]

Even Futsal takes work and lots of it, even if that work is fun.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Yes and if Scurry had shut them down you would have said she should have been playing in all of the other games. Scurry is a great keeper and that game was lost by the whole U.S. team. Monday morning quarterbacking is very easy to do even if it is Thursday. Brazil was going to win that game no matter who was in goal.

The critisim of that move by the USA coach are everywhere and you can find a lot dating prior to the match....

Even Tony Dicicco and July Foudy thought that was wrong. You don't do that with a keeper, you just don't unless you've told her and the team is aware of that. Now, he takes all his players by surprise and they have to adapt to a new keeper when everything was find with Hope Solo. I don't care if the USA wins or lose with Scurry, this was a bad coaching move by Ryan.

I just can't find a precedent of a coach switching keepers like that in soccer during an important tournament.

Like a lot of people have pointed out, Scurry is less comfortable than Solo with her feet, you know that's a big adjustement for the defense? They got use to a keeper and are playing well with her and the coach messed up with his move.

This is not hockey, a keeper in soccer is much more than stopping ball....

[ag futbol]

After living in America and going through youth soccer for a year or two I can tell you there is absolutely no way those players were not dedicated and extremely hard working. I think we forget sometimes living next to America that they are a sports factory, taking training in practically everything to the extreme. They have a huge player pool and resources to with it. They absolutely have the dedication, professionalism and work ethic to succeed.

It’s not about Brazilians being hard working vs. Americans being less so, it’s about the environment they are training in giving them incentive to produce certain skills. Futsal and the early forgiving approach Brazilians take to the game give players incentives to focus on creativity, while in America there is just too much pressure to win and total disincentive to develop individual skill. The video by JB_Tito posted a while back sums it up perfectly.

Asides from that, a lot of people have accused Ryan of using outdated tactics, well before this game even occurred.

[Cheeta]

1st

Ryan should be sacked. Confidence shattering stupidity he'll never live down. Has anyone else seen the quotes Hope Solo gave to the CBC after the match (and were picked up across the US media)? Good for her but fighting words between her and Ryan and with the bronze match on Sunday who plays keep?

2nd

A decade of MLS in the US of A is no match for the football infastructures which exist in traditional footballing nations. Brazil, England, Germany, France so on. If the womens programs in these countries are harnessing some of that male infastructure, and I doubt it not that they are, the decade head start the US had in womens football evaporates in a heart beat. And evidently it has.

3rd

Training. I'm a dinosaur and admit it. I advocate a lot of things which are very old school, very "British" and very out-of-fashion on this board when it comes to football so take the following for what it's worth. In our rush of the last few years to try to improve the so-called "skill set" of the younger generations of players in this country we've swung too far away from some football fundimentals. I can't count the number of elite players, very apt on the ball at their feet with a good shot and a bit of ability to dribble who don't want to really run without it, couldn't make a tackle to save their life, and forget that this is a three dimensional game and you're going to have to learn to head the damn ball.

And half of the little sons-of-bitches have no mettle to them at all. None. Spending their energy motioning to the ref and sulking when they should be spending their energy running and battling. Learning that it takes a little grit to win sometimes.

Anyway, it seems appropriate that I should just close out this short rant with a "SEND IT!"

[Vic]

I don't have as big a problem with putting Scurry in. He had a hunch and he went with it. She wasn't why they lost, and who knows, he could be right and it could have been worse with Solo in. I like her as a keeper, but I also remember her waffling at the North Korean shot. She has to take her share of accountability for her fate.

quote:

"If she’s on her game, she makes this save," Tony DiCicco, who coached Scurry and the United States to the 1999 World Cup title, said on ESPN2.

He spoke harshly of Ryan, saying, "I think he’s lost some credibility with his team."

One statement that really struck me and I've never forgotten was one of DiCicco's. In the '95 WWC, Scurry, ironically, was given a faulty red and afterwards his comment was "I would hate to be judged on one game as a player or coach, and I'm not going to judge this referee based on one game either." So, I was quite surprised to hear him diss Ryan, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear there's a subtext, i.e. they don't have a great relationship, or DiCicco wanted the job and didn't get it, or something like that. They're obviously not friends.

Interesting that we now have Brazil v. Germany. The women's final now has the two most decorated Men's teams, and a repeat of the 2002 Brazil-Germany Men's World Cup final.

Also, the class with which Boxx took the tragedy of her undeserved red card really moved me. Not a word or a single peep or anything other than pure dignity and sportsmanship. Quite a contrast from Daniela cutting her legs out blind from behind and then waving two fingers at the ref.

[Vic]

quote:

I can't count the number of elite players, very apt on the ball at their feet with a good shot and a bit of ability to dribble who don't want to really run without it, couldn't make a tackle to save their life, and forget that this is a three dimensional game and you're going to have to learn to head the damn ball.

And half of the little sons-of-bitches have no mettle to them at all. None. Spending their energy motioning to the ref and sulking when they should be spending their energy running and battling. Learning that it takes a little grit to win sometimes.

I really enjoyed that. And I'd actually up it and say it takes a little grit to win ALWAYS.

[hamiltonfan]

wow..think of brasil last WWC compare to now.

[Jon Que]

Looked like Ryan aged about 25 years today in a span of about 80 minutes. Look at the pictures of him before the match and then at the 80 minute mark (he looks like death warmed over, but also like he's ready to cry). I couldn't blame him either. What a nightmare! I've never seen the U.S. so humbled.

He took a calculated risk putting Scurry in and it backfired big time. The question is would having Solo in have helped with the chemistry (communication) on the first goal and would she have stopped the 2nd (weak goal). Still having it 0-0 at that point would have helped the US keep their confidence and who knows. They were playing okay, but not great. Holding their own. Being down 2-0 on bad goals and then losing Boxx on a horrible call. That was really the end of this game. What was the ref thinking on that? Maybe I'm missing something here, but how do you trip someone when you are in front of them, runnning away from them even. . The US looked absolutely horrible in the 2nd half. It was like they gave up or else Brazilian confidence was just so high.

3 years ago the Brazilians looked awesome in the Olympic final, but weren't quite ready to take on that veteran laden US team. They've grown up and look like they could beat anybody now. We'll see Sunday. If they can beat the US and then Germany in the same tournament then that will be very impressive indeed.

[Canuck Oranje]

Yes their Fathers may have played and their brothers probably play; but, their mothers most likely did not and most girls do not.

In fact, girls who play into their teens years are often accused of having a gender orientation that is not of the majority. While things are changing rapidly, it still happens.

If you pass by a game in the park or on the beach in Brazil, there are fewer girls playing than you would expect.

To your point about girls playing it as the sport of choice, the fact is traditionally girls were not encouraged to play sports. In fact, there are more girls taking dance lessons than play soccer.

On the economic class of girls playing the game, most girls that play do come from the middle class and up. Girls like Marta,who came from a more modest background, are the exception. It was no surprise to me when I checked FIFA's website to find out that 11 of the 21 players come from elite women's teams in the State of Sao Paulo. Nine of those come from two teams, Botucatu and Saad EC. Saad is from the city of Campinas in Sao Paulo. FYI, Campinas is a well known college city and Botucatu is a smaller city where the main employers are a university and, aircraft maker, Embraer. When you look at the cities with teams in the top women's division in the State of Sao Paulo, most are from reasonably middle class areas of the state or are from cities like the high tech and engineering centre, Sao Jose dos Campos (would be Brazil's equivalent to Waterloo, Ontario).

There are reasons why Marta is compared to Pele that goes beyond her skill. She, like Pele did on the men's side, is likely to have a profound impact on the women's game in Brazil.

That brings me back to my orginal comment. This story is more about hard work and perseverance than most North Americans think.

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

It's not so much that they work hard in fact it's probably not work at all. The Brazilian women are immersed in a football culture. Their fathers play, their brothers play and they play. They watch their National teams play. In fact they live and die by how their side does. I would bet with the possible exception of some beach volleyball (and regular volleyball for the tall Brazilian women) the only team sport they play in appreciable numbers is football.

Contrast this with the average Canadian who probably participates in several sports while growing up. Dancing lessons, skating lessons, piano lessons all take time and most Canadian parents want these activities for their children. Sport has always been a way to better yourself and I would be curious to know what socio-economic background the Brazilian women come from. Do you think they represent the upper middle class as members from the U.S. and Canadian squads most assuradly do? I don't think so.

But I don't think the Brazilians consider it "work" they just like to play football.

[Canuck Oranje]

Brazilian women traditionally have been encouraged not to play. Those that continue to play do so under difficult circumstances. A key point is that the situation is entirely different for the men in Brazil.

That part of society is changing in the more developed parts of Brazil; but, is not entirely forgotten yet.

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

After living in America and going through youth soccer for a year or two I can tell you there is absolutely no way those players were not dedicated and extremely hard working. I think we forget sometimes living next to America that they are a sports factory, taking training in practically everything to the extreme. They have a huge player pool and resources to with it. They absolutely have the dedication, professionalism and work ethic to succeed.

It’s not about Brazilians being hard working vs. Americans being less so, it’s about the environment they are training in giving them incentive to produce certain skills. Futsal and the early forgiving approach Brazilians take to the game give players incentives to focus on creativity, while in America there is just too much pressure to win and total disincentive to develop individual skill. The video by JB_Tito posted a while back sums it up perfectly.

Asides from that, a lot of people have accused Ryan of using outdated tactics, well before this game even occurred.

[JPB]

Ryan made an awful decision when he switched keepers.

I understand that Scurry played a large part in the USA's qualification for this tournament. But if Ryan wanted to hold her in reserve for a BIG game, he should have played her during the group stages. First, for the sake of team morale. Second, for the sake of preparing Scurry for tougher competition. As it was, Scurry was not match sharp and it is no mystery what ailed her, and her defence.

The first two goals were due to keeper errors. A two-goal lead merely openned the flood gates.

The red card furthered shattered the USA's defensive play. Horriblely incompetent officiating on such a big occassion. But I most fault the Brazilian player who took the tumble behind Box. The unsporting behavior included her embellishment of the tumble and her appeal for a second yellow card and her celebration of the ejection of Box.

From what I saw, this player had made a fantastic run up the wing, made an equally terrific lateral pass behind Box, and then fooled Box with a sudden cutting run into the middle which had Box looking over the wrong shoulder. A return through pass would have given this player a break on goal inside the 18-yard-box. It was a display of individual skill, on the ball and off the ball, and a creative vision of attacking football.

But that is not what will be remembered of that particular play in this player's memorable semifinal win over the USA at the World Cup.

By rights, she should have been given a warning, if not a yellow card, for the embellishment or for her appeal to the referee for a second yellow card.

Meanwhile, as someone metioned above, Box showed great class in her reaction to the unjust red card.

Marta's aggressive display of skill on the ball should earn her the best player of the tournament. But somehow I expect the game against Germany to involve too much hunting for yellow cards and penalty kicks.

In my books, the top players on the Brazilian squad are the top players at the World Cup, but the deficiency in sporting behavior is thus made doublely painful to watch. Marta is not the Pele of Brazilian football, she is the Maradona, sad to say.

[Guest Ed]

I think Brazil will be too busy picking the ball out of the back of the net to engage in theatrics against Germany. Their defence looked iffy, and will be exploited by the Germans. That has to be the weakest US team in terms of skill that I have seen in the last 10 years. Looks like they are recruiting big, fast girls, with soccer skills somewhat 2nd on the list. Sounds familiar, and a recipe for disaster now that the rest of the world is getting into it.