TFC/ future Canadian MLS team crisis

[nolando]

OK...I know, before you get your daggers out, it's way too early to predict the demise of TFC and any future plan for Canadian MLS franchises, but we have some SERIOUS problems to contend with, no??

The crisis is Canadian content, as I am sure is painfully obvious.

Unless I am missing something, TFC has a short-term escape clause from their normal requirement to field Canadian players on the club's senior squad. This obviously means that they need to find more talent down the road that qualifies as Canadian as well as, and this crucial, finding guys that are willing play under the current MLS salary constraints.

I can't see this happening anytime soon. The men in charge have done a pretty darn good job of overturning stones in my opinion, but there are only so many stones that can be overturned. Reda doesn't seem good enough, and one might look at the results and the commentary and say the same thing about Sutton, whom I don't think many worried too much about, before the real games started at least. Bubble players like Braz and Canizales and Poz certainly don't look like real MLS quality on paper either, and so that leaves Jimmy Brennan as the only Canadian guy who looks like he can play MLS, and how much longer than a couple years could you expect a guy like him to be playing for TFC?

This is trouble, people. Real trouble.

The States obviously has ten times the population (yes, not necessarily ten times the pro-soccer playing population, but still a heck of a lot more)to draw upon when looking for decent quality players who: a) have enough quality to play MLS, have either no ambition or no potential to play in Europe, and c) are willing to play for pretty small pay packets compared to what a player of similar talent might be worth in Europe.

Who do we have left to look at then when searching for potential Canadians, people?

1)Dredge the rest of the MLS and USL - there would definitely be a few upgrades available. Of course, we may even see a soon-to-be (probably) overpaid DDR, journeymen types like Serioux and Jazic, and a couple of guys who have also-ran written all over them or who have a great-grandmother who farted once north of the 49th - just enough to qualify as Canadian content. Not enough really to secure the future of TFC there, even if you could trade for or sign those guys (which I seriously doubt given their apparent value to their current teams)

2) go one half step higher on the quality bar in searching Europe again (given the first search just barely scratched the surface). Who would this mean exactly? Maybe Gerba, Imhoff, Hainault, Williams, D Simpson, Kappos, Ademolu, Kenny, Grande, Dodds, Hastings, Hughes, Ledgerwood? Would (m)any of these guys be answers to the problem? Would (m)any of these guys consider coming back to play for peanuts and take themselves away from where they see some sort of footballing future? When a "home-town" guy with an extremely limited CV like Canizalez isn't even sounding all that excited to be here?

I don't even personally see a lot of help in that list myself, meaning that you would have to be going to...

3) a further step up (a much bigger leap in my mind at least) to be looking at guys like Occean, J Simpson, Peters, Klukowski, Issey, Devos, Bircham, Nsaliwa, Friend, Bernier, Aguiar, Pesch...these guys I can imagine helping out a fair bit on a team like TFC (some of them of course only for the very short term), but also I think you would have a hell of a time either paying for and/or convincing these guys to "come back" to Canada.

Above this quality bar (and I don't mean to suggest that these arbitrary divisions are exact - I have surely made a few gaffes here) is surely out of the question as all of our top-billed players won't have anything to do with TFC (I suspect even if they could qualify for extra cash under the Beckham rule)

4) play with half the u20 squad at any given time

This is the serious situation facing TFC, a situation that would most likely be compounded by the admission of Montreal and Vancouver to MLS (especially if they arrived in the same year, as some have suggested)

This isn't me playing at doom-and-gloom. I'm speaking from the heart and not trying to bait anyone, especially not the bloody brilliant TFC supporters, who should all be applauded and given keys to the country. In fact, I really want to see TFC do well and for them to figure a way to stock their team with quality Canadians. I also think that MLS is the only way forward for Vancouver and Montreal.

How then do we overcome?

(sorry for the novel/long-winded soliloquy)

[argh1]

Forgive for returning to a theme that I maybe the only supporter.

I, me, myself, all three of us. Think that Canadians and Americans should be treated as domestic (non-imports) through out the league.

It's a single entity ownership in MLS in which certain league owners operate teams. We are not talking about franchises, this is a league where all operators also own the league.

Having all teams being able to have American or Canadians as non-imports I believe would increase a Canadians chances of landing a job.

Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

[Ryan Keay]

Short term this is a major issue. I think one of the major issues is having a situation where TFC can afford to transfer players in. As free transfers come around, TFC is going to have to pounce on players. I think its too early to say any players are not capable of playing the level, but alarm bells are definitely going off.

The only way to fix this problem long term is to develop internally. It is an absolute must that 3 or 4 of the guys in the developmental roster turn into capable MLS players. Even the Lynx were capable of bringing along young talent in Toronto, what TFC has to do is keep these developed players in Toronto. Even a guy like Atiba could still be playing here, awaiting a move to a major European league, and not having to move to a new Scandinavian country every year.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

Not in the slightest. I have the strong suspicion that MLS has decided to treat this year as an experiment (regarding the can-con) and will quite happily massage the rules, as they seem to do so freely, from the next season on. Expect to see USL-style changes in the near future at this rate - I agree, it is probably the only viable solution. It sure beats having a Vancouver Grizzles-type chapter in Toronto soccer, where the team just keeps losing and people just stop showing up (pretty view or no pretty view). However, abandoning the Canadian requirement could quite possibly be a terrible solution in terms of Canadian soccer development (without getting into the Whitecaps debate again here,please). It would certainly be a huge disappointment to some of the supporters who follow both the MNT and TFC.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Ryan Keay

Short term this is a major issue.

If the team doesn't manage to overcome short-term problems over (perhaps as short as) a 2-3 year period, there may not be any long-term issues to worry about. There just won't be a team. Ask the folks in any number of former MLS locales.

Nevermind the fact that I think that if the team is desperate enough to physically NEED youth and reserve players to not only come in but to also make an impact on the senior squad over the next couple years, there are bigger troubles on the horizon.

[Massive Attack]

Maybe I'm a dreamer/crazy person, but I believe that Canada has enough talent to have three competitive MLS teams.

I think Toronto FC's problems lie with the person making the personnel/coaching decisions.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Maybe I'm a dreamer/crazy person, but I believe that Canada has enough talent to have three competitive MLS teams.

I think Toronto FC's problems lie with the person making the personnel/coaching decisions.

If you mean Canadian talent (that will play for and is good enough for TFC or Montreal/Vancouver in MLS) then please enlighten me by answering my question with some names. I am not scoffing. I seriously would like to know what you think.

BTW we are ALL crazy, as tonight's event have so perfectly demonstrated - we earn this title by merely being V's to begin with (scarves or no scarves).

[gator]

All very good points! I don't think it is yet a crisis, it is very concerning though! I think a combination of your solutions nolando will help! Play the under 20's now, bring in guys like Pesch near the end of their careers! Does anyone feel that maybe we underestimated the caliber of this league?

[nolando]

the comment about playing the u-20's now was a joke, btw

[Alberto7]

One just has to look at the problem at finding a backup keeper. Is there a Canadian keeper equivalent to Sutton (or just a solid backup)who can back him up? Factor into this the small MLS salaries and the answer is no.

TFC will have to go with a young U-20 or promising Canadian USL keeper and develop him(unfortunately we can count these on one hand). Only Hirschfeld and Stamatopoulos are Canadians who could replace Sutton in case of injury or poor play but you will never see them here because they can make that much more playing in Scandanavia or some equivalent league. The proof of this is the fact that only one keeper is on the official roster and they had to bring in an emergency keeper for last night's game. How mickey mouse is that?

I think Nolando hit the nail on the head when he said the Cancon rules will have to be changed or the team will struggle. TFC had a very competent backup in Jon Busch but Mo had too many americans on the team and had to let him go. stupid, stupid rules.

[Cheeta]

If anyone thinks that TFC will be able to reduce their Canadian content below what it already is all in the name of making the team competative without there being some sort of uproar from the taxpaying public then maybe they had better think again.

[Gian-Luca]

IMO this post is very premature - if the situation is the same at the end of the 2008 season then perhaps we are closer to being considered a "crisis". The first year was always going to be the most difficult for Canadian content for TFC, particularly with the team starting up when many European-based players already under contract & the younger players in the system not yet developed.

I also think it is premature to conclude that Brennan as the only Canadian guy that can play in MLS - leaving aside the issue that Jazic, Serioux & two-time MLS MVP Candidate DeRo have already proven that they can play in the league, I don't know that we can conclude that for somebody like Pozniak who hasn't even played yet due to injury or Braz who's only played 15 minutes because he's not considered in game shape. Also while Reda was brutal last night, he played well the previous two games so I think it is a bit early to conclude he can't play in MLS. I also don't agree about the conclusions drawn about Sutton & MC2. TFC is losing as a team - the non-Canadians who are playing are just as much at fault, if not more (since there are more of them), than the Canadians on TFC so I don't think it would be fair to point the finger at Canadian content letting the side down, if that's what is being suggested here. I'd also like to see how much better everyone plays at home for Toronto instead of constantly being the road team for the opposition's home opener before I make any firm conclusions about any players, especially the Canadian ones who should be as pumped as you can get on Saturday.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

If anyone thinks that TFC will be able to reduce their Canadian content below what it already is all in the name of making the team competative without there being some sort of uproar from the taxpaying public then maybe they had better think again.

Uproar? From who? The 10-15 posters on this forum that actually give a rats ass?

quote:Originally posted by nolando

If you mean Canadian talent (that will play for and is good enough for TFC or Montreal/Vancouver in MLS) then please enlighten me by answering my question with some names. I am not scoffing. I seriously would like to know what you think.

BTW we are ALL crazy, as tonight's event have so perfectly demonstrated - we earn this title by merely being V's to begin with (scarves or no scarves).

I think we may be overblowing the talent issue at the moment. I think a lot of the team problems have more to do with familiarity and cohesion than talent.

I also think that the Caps and the Impact may actually have an advantage over TFC because they won't be starting from scratch. They will be able to take a number of players with them from the USL, which will be a lot easier for them then starting from nothing.

[Jarrek]

3 games people. 3 games.

[bingham]

Yes but there's nothing like a good moan and argument. Ah well back to my virtual pint.[][]

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

3 games people. 3 games.

Sure, but are these the only three games most of these players have ever played?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Sure, but are these the only three games most of these players have ever played?

As a team - yes!

[Jarrek]

quote:Sure, but are these the only three games most of these players have ever played?

What are you getting at Richard? If they lose three more games and won't score a goal, then we'll worry. Players on teams sometime need to "gel".

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Sure, but are these the only three games most of these players have ever played?

Man, you can become one obsessive poster sometimes.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

If anyone thinks that TFC will be able to reduce their Canadian content below what it already is all in the name of making the team competative without there being some sort of uproar from the taxpaying public then maybe they had better think again.

Why is TFC in anyway acountable to the taxpaying public? Espcially the canadians who live outside Ontario. Cripes, if you are alluding to the federal dollars that went towards the stadium, then it might be worth point out that those dollar represent only a fraction of financing that involved three other parties. Plus it was not for the benefit of Toronto but rather so that Canada can host the U20 World Cup.

The Fed's didnt finance TFC.

Besides, is anyone holding Vanoc ( just to name an example) to the same level of scrutiny accounability for a project that might be 10 or twenty times the size of the construction of BMO field.

[Dionattan]

Maybe down the road there can be an MLS team in Canada, maybe Montreal or Vancouver that can be Canadian only, like the way Chivas in Mexico is Mexican only and Bilbao in Spain is Basque only, Saprissa in Costa Rica, Costa Rican only, etc. I don't know how well that would go down in Canada though.

[JesseDart]

I hate to go down this road again, bu the only way you are going to fix it is by having a domestic competition that is endorsed by the CSA. It doesn't have to be professional, it can be open to amateurs sides from all over the country, but with a meaningful and structured competition that subsidzes the Travel costs as part of moving on and at the end rewards the winner with a $10,000 or 20,000 prize. Hell I hear reserves in norther Saskatchewan award more for Hockey tournaments, why couldn't the CSA? That will be the only way to get the level up because your core players vying for this competition will be from 15-25 years of age. This will promote professionalism in grass root clubs and eventually you can pay the the players or at least finance their studies. The CIS does nothing for Soccer and by then it's almost too late. Eventually you can have a Regional Leagues. I know I am all over the place, but you see where I'm going with this. Anyway, this is not the first time I suggest this. It will take someone wilth balls to do this at the CSA. They gotta gut that organization out anyway. Let some heads roll. We can always hope.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Dionattan

Maybe down the road there can be an MLS team in Canada, maybe Montreal or Vancouver that can be Canadian only, like the way Chivas in Mexico is Mexican only and Bilbao in Spain is Basque only, Saprissa in Costa Rica, Costa Rican only, etc. I don't know how well that would go down in Canada though.

I take it you are too young to remember what led to the demise of the NASL in Montreal.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

What are you getting at Richard? If they lose three more games and won't score a goal, then we'll worry. Players on teams sometime need to "gel".

Lost balls, given up possession, bad passes, intercepted passes, not first to the ball, need I go on? Little if any of this has to do with gelling as a team but everything to do with personal skill, judgement and experience. So far the players on the field have not shown themselves to be earning their salaries in that regard. These are fulltime, professional, career soccer players. They have so far not looked much better than a local amateur team. Perhaps the potential is there but it is not showing through.

[Alberto7]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

I take it you are too young to remember what led to the demise of the NASL in Montreal.

For those who don't remember or just don't know what happened, here it is in a nutshell. The Montreal Manic were in the NASL in 1983 when it was decided to turn the team in Washington into Team America. All American players playing in the league were to play for this team to be based in Washington(essentially becoming the US national team). Many American players refused to leave their current NASL teams so Team America became basically an American B Squad. The team lasted only one season(1983). The owners of the Manic (Molson Breweries I believe)thought this was a great idea and announced that the Manic would become Team Canada in 1984. When the fans in Montreal heard this , they abandoned the Manic in droves. Attendance was in the 20,000 range in 1982 and dropped like a stone to around 9,000 in 1983. The team folded at the end of the season.