TFC/ future Canadian MLS team crisis

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Lost balls, given up possession, bad passes, intercepted passes, not first to the ball, need I go on?

It's funny because I think that's all the same thing and can often happen due to the players being unknown to each others.

BTW, take 1 average player from every EPL team and make a team with them and then play that team in the EPL. What would happen? I'm pretty sure they would loose often, specially their first games even if they're pro.

[Richard]

The league games TFC has played and performed so dismally in were not the first time these players played together. If they need that much more time together then the preseason camps and games were woefully inadequate.

World Cup teams do OK and those are disparate groups of players from a variety of teams thrown together over a short period of time who don't play together week in and week out. Your argument doesn't wash.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The league games TFC has played and performed so dismally in were not the first time these players played together. If they need that much more time together then the preseason camps and games were woefully inadequate.

World Cup teams do OK and those are disparate groups of players from a variety of teams thrown together over a short period of time who don't play together week in and week out. Your argument doesn't wash.

I would think that playing over 20 WCQ games plus friendlies (average of 15-20 per teams) on a 2 yrs period prior to the WC is enough for most of those players to get to know each other. TFC players have never played together for the exception of Sutton and Braz and some canadian players (but for only 3 games).

[Richard]

Then tell me, what is training camp all about then? Seems some of them even reported to camp not yet match fit physically as they couldn't last a 90 minute game.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The midfield was actually pretty decent on Wednesday. Chances were being created which is always a good sign for the future. The main problem was at the back. Reda's lack of pace is not something that is likely to change so the road back won't be an easy one for him. According to Sportsnet Reda has been dropped and Andrew Boyens will play instead tomorrow:-

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article.jsp?content=20070427_173335_6908

The fact only two Canadians are projected to start in the home opener and four fringe national team players will be on the bench at best suggests that only regular starters with the national team are likely to make a major impact in MLS and there is a limit to how many of those TFC are likely to bring through from the reserves. Bottom line is that money will have to be spent to entice some top Canadian players back from Europe on Bosmans as they become available in the years ahead.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

World Cup teams do OK and those are disparate groups of players from a variety of teams thrown together over a short period of time who don't play together week in and week out. Your argument doesn't wash.

For crying out loud, those World Cup teams who do OK are playing against other teams that are all in the same boat. TFC are an expansion team learning to play together (they've not had close to the same roster for two consecutive games as yet) against already established squads that have been together for years. No amount of talent in the world is going to change that fact.

[AlexCap]

I'm not sure if I am correct or not, so I apologize if I'm not. But, if a player plays in a certain country for a certain amount of time (5 years?) isn't he considered a non-import? So any player who is playing now, by 2012 would be considered 'Canadian'?

I think I read something about De Rosario being considered 'American' because he's played there quite awhile, but I could be wrong.

[nolando]

Marco Reda saw action in the middle of defence earlier in the season but Johnston said the Canadian "is still not ready yet for the pace of the game here in MLS."

Ahem...doesn't spare any words now does he. I guess Johnston doesn't think its too early to say that Reda is not MLS calibre. One has to wonder if he ever will be. Or what he thinks of Braz. With each passing week this situation looks a little grimmer. Bring on the free transfers!

[VPjr]

The only Canuck on this team worth his salt is Brennan. He truly is class. He is likely going to get called to the MNT if he keeps this up. Sutton is, at best, just ok. I wonder if Jon Busch would not have been a better keeper.

Braz is terrible...fat and slow. Might be good enough for USL-1 but not MLS. I don't understand how he plays for the MNT. He'll be starring for the reserves for the rest of this year, IMO.

I think Reda needs to get back to full fitness before I write him off. He was horrible in Boston and KC but I want to believe he can contribute in the middle.

Where does Poz fit on this team now? I can't see him taking Wynne or Goldwaithe's positions on the field when he gets healthy and he's not really a CB so maybe he will just end up as a BW (benchwarmer).

Canizalez is just ok as well....not a star in the making, that's for sure. i have to believe that the first chance he gets to scurry back to Europe to make a better wage, he will.

I am curious to see how Lombardo develops. I would like to see him become the 1st striker off the bench at some point this year.

[john tv]

I tried to convince the commisioner to have a second Canadian team in the the league and he was very guarded about me request. To be honest I only segested Vancouver, since it seemed a natural. He said not yet it is to fast.I left it at that.

[Soju]

I see that as good news john tv, shows the MLS aren't the NASL.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Marco Reda saw action in the middle of defence earlier in the season but Johnston said the Canadian "is still not ready yet for the pace of the game here in MLS."

Ahem...doesn't spare any words now does he. I guess Johnston doesn't think its too early to say that Reda is not MLS calibre. One has to wonder if he ever will be. Or what he thinks of Braz. With each passing week this situation looks a little grimmer. Bring on the free transfers!

I like coaches that are straight shooters. On the other hand it could also be said that until Johnston shows that he is an MLS level coach and manager his opinions are also very suspect. I thought as manager he put together a lineup that should be competitive but so far is not. As a coach he has been well below MLS level so far. I have not been very impressed with his tactics, squad selection, team preparation or substitutions. I think everyone knows my attitude from the Yallop debate, I do not like people who are critical of others when they are not themselves doing a good job and at the moment I would have to put MO in that category. Plus I have seen both Reda and Braz play against opposition who were far faster than MLS teams and they seemed to do alright so maybe the first thing is for MO to get his act together.

[Canuck Oranje]

I tend to agree. In addition, I would add that the coach has to accept some responsibility for the lack of fitness. There are things he needed to do to make sure that players were properly prepared. It is about 8 weeks since the beginning of training camp and there still seems to be fitness issues.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I like coaches that are straight shooters. On the other hand it could also be said that until Johnston shows that he is an MLS level coach and manager his opinions are also very suspect. I thought as manager he put together a lineup that should be competitive but so far is not. As a coach he has been well below MLS level so far. I have not been very impressed with his tactics, squad selection, team preparation or substitutions. I think everyone knows my attitude from the Yallop debate, I do not like people who are critical of others when they are not themselves doing a good job and at the moment I would have to put MO in that category. Plus I have seen both Reda and Braz play against opposition who were far faster than MLS teams and they seemed to do alright so maybe the first thing is for MO to get his act together.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

How anyone can defend Reda after the performance in the Kansas City away game is beyond me. The pace of the game isn't just about physical fitness it is also about the speed of decision making. He might get there after a few weeks more training but right now he is a liability. Where Braz and Pozniak are concerned neither seemed suited to the MLS possession style of play in which a fullback tends to be the first outlet for the keeper. Compare and contrast the number of times Sutton launched it long in Charleston to Saturday.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Just want to say I recall watching Braz vs. Spain in Santander, and I kept thinking that the performance was good enough to get him signed by a 2nd div team. All he needed was an astute agent.

Mind you he played on the outside of the defence, but he looked poised and professional. He was the bargain of the team if they had been looking for contracts. So I find it very odd he is showing to be underpar.

[hottoddy7]

Have to agree with Jeffrey and others. I cannot say that Braz would be the best player in MLS but he has played well in games at a higher level. Spain for one, the last gold cup for a couple more. Braz played against the States, an MLS all star team with a few europeans added ( can't remember the exact roster) and by no means did he look out of place. He certainly wasn't getting shredded the way Mo's backlines have especially 3-5-2 what the hell? Mo is 0 for 4 this year got canned last year in the same league ( anyone know NY's record after they dropped him? I don't but I'm curious) The team that dropped him last year is looking like the class of the league so far this year though they did add Reyna. Mo has also started Welsh in all 4 games and all he has done is show that he isnt ready for the pace of MLS. Hopefully Welsh gets better it's only been four games but like Grizzly said Mo is singling out players when he himself is obviously "not ready for the pace of MLS". The only thing I can say for sure is that "Mo don't know football".

[hottoddy7]

Have to agree with Jeffrey and others. I cannot say that Braz would be the best player in MLS but he has played well in games at a higher level. Spain for one, the last gold cup for a couple more. Braz played against the States, an MLS all star team with a few europeans added ( can't remember the exact roster) and by no means did he look out of place. He certainly wasn't getting shredded the way Mo's backlines have especially 3-5-2 what the hell? Mo is 0 for 4 this year got canned last year in the same league ( anyone know NY's record after they dropped him? I don't but I'm curious) The team that dropped him last year is looking like the class of the league so far this year though they did add Reyna. Mo has also started Welsh in all 4 games and all he has done is show that he isnt ready for the pace of MLS. Hopefully Welsh gets better it's only been four games but like Grizzly said Mo is singling out players when he himself is obviously "not ready for the pace of MLS". The only thing I can say for sure is that "Mo don't know football".

[youllneverwalkalone]

All this bollocks about pace is just that. I've seen most of the goals conceded and they've been a result of either poor organization or a seeming lack of fitness. The Gaffer has to take much responsibilty in either case.

Having said this, one of the reasons Brennan and Boyens looked okay on Saturday was the 4-4-2 and the play of these two new fullbacks. Braz and Reda would have shown just as well in the centre, as pace is not the problem back there.

Mo looks like a great director of football and a horrible manager. Perhaps he'll realise this and let Gansler take over soon.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

How is "a seeming lack of fitness" different from "a lack of pace" beyond the allocation of blame and why were Brennan and Reda less successful in a 4-4-2 on Wednesday evening if the formation was the only reason that Boyens and Brennan did better on Saturday? Simply laughable to have people on here questioning what Mo Johnston knows about the game. He has played at a much higher level than the likes of Braz and Reda so he knows the score on stuff like that. Saturday's performance was way better than the New England game two weeks previous. As long as that progress continues coaching isn't the issue. With hindsight the initial reliance in roster terms on the so called "Canadian Shield" was a bad move but I didn't see anyone criticizing it in the media or on any of the messageboards no doubt because of stuff like the Spain game mentioned above. Mo Johnston wasn't alone in overestimating the ability of Canadian national team players relative to MLS.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Well that's a slowpitch question if I've ever heard one. I'll knock it out of the park for ya. Pace is what you come in to this world with, god given if you will -either you have it or don't. Fitness is the work you put in on training ground. A manager can't control the pace of his players once they're signed. Fitness is completely under his control. So when the team doesn't perform, he blames the player's pace.

That's almost as laughable as your assertion that only football managers can post their opinion in this forum. Go kiss Mo's arse somewhere where he'll read it. If he'd been lurking here, he'd have played a 4-4-2 since the debacle of the first match. The point is, your famous brave heart should have known this from day 1. As I allude, I didn't see the first KC match, so I can't comment on the formation. Regardless, his tactics are ****e. I gave him full credit for finding two good fullbacks -the reason they looked okay on Saturday. Others, including the guy who ultimately fires him, need not be so charitable.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

So how come it is only the three Canadian defenders that have this supposed fitness problem?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Simply laughable to have people on here questioning what Mo Johnston knows about the game. He has played at a much higher level than the likes of Braz and Reda so he knows the score on stuff like that.

Noone is saying that Mo did not play at a high level. Being a good player is not synonymous with being a good coach.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Mate, your club 0-0-4 and have conceded 13 goals and scored none. Fitness is certainly not the only problem, but neither is it afflicting only the Canadians. Any second division English, Scottish, or German manager would have been sacked already preparing his club like that. I'm not saying it's all Mo's fault. The players need to be professionals and have clearly underestimated the level they need to be at. While Esky, Buddle, Paulo, et al those with MLS experience have not set an example. Still, it's the manager who is ultimately to blame.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

So how come it is only the three Canadian defenders that have this supposed fitness problem?

From what I can see pretty much the whole team has a fitness problem. There is no excuse for this. A new team may take a certain amount of time to gel because the players don't know each other and that is not Mo's fault. However, it is just as easy to ensure an expansion team is fit as it is to ensure an established team is fit. Indeed since the team is new, one would think that the coach would try to have a fitness level higher than that of other teams to compensate for the player's lack of familiarity with each other. There is no excuse for TFC tiring in the second half of each game so far in the season. If it takes 6 or 7 league games for the team to get fit that is Mo's fault for not establishing an adequate fitness program.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Noone is saying that Mo did not play at a high level. Being a good player is not synonymous with being a good coach.

Check above for this comment. "The only thing I can say for sure is that "Mo don't know football"." To write that about someone who has played in Old Firm games, an FA Cup final and at the World Cup etc just because he dares to drop a couple of Canadian national team players is a joke.