TFC/ future Canadian MLS team crisis

[john tv]

I really hope that Toronto F.C will make it their business to make the youth development not a business.North American pro sporting clubs have never given a true youth development any attention and MLS seem to have the right idea.That N.A temptation generating a return on your investments is maybe not the way to go at all or only very very partially.

[Richard]

People need to inform themselves about what the Whitecaps FC are doing for youth development with their Residentcy program. This not a program that is looking for a short term ROI for the club. Other north American clubs could take a lesson from this.

http://whitecapsfc.com/youth/residency/

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

http://www.torontolife.com/features/goal-oriented/?pageno=1

Thanks for posting that piece. Thats was a good read.

Note to sstackho, Rudy, The Keays, and anyone else who was who was at the Carl Robinson press conference at the Bier market..... Read the first paragraph of that article!

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

http://www.torontolife.com/features/goal-oriented/?pageno=1

Thanks for posting that piece. Thats was a good read.

Note to sstackho, Rudy, The Keays, and anyone else who was who was at the Carl Robinson press conference at the Bier market..... Read the first paragraph of that article!

[Macksam]

We all know how MLS teams are going to be required to develop youth academies right? Well there it is, the solution. Hopefully MLSE doesn't drag their heels by making a lame excuse for a youth academy. We need a Ajax type youth academy where about 500 promising young Canadian players aged 9 to 18 years old train day in and day out the basic fundamentals of the game. Scrimaging and not keeping track of scores, not keep track of time, just to become better. That's the solution my friend. That won't just benefit TFC but the Canadian national team as well.

[john tv]

I really wonder what it cost the Deguzman familie to sent their boys to France and Holland. Did they have to pay any money to these clubs.I like to assume they did not but I am curious. If TFC is to set up a Ajax type of system ,this is going to cost a ton of money.Will they do that or find some way to generate money as well.I know it is totally foreign to invest into youth programs in the N.A. pro sporting world and as i have said before i really hope that this will not be the case.

I do know that when i suggested this highly qualified Dutch coach with that immense experience who wanted to come to Toronto I was told that there was no need for a coach.

[Macksam]

Well, I think TFC isn't going to do the youth thing until next year so we'll have to wait and see till than.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

I really hope that Toronto F.C will make it their business to make the youth development not a business.North American pro sporting clubs have never given a true youth development any attention and MLS seem to have the right idea.That N.A temptation generating a return on your investments is maybe not the way to go at all or only very very partially.

John, you are absolutely bang on.

While I will always support TFC, if they make their academy a Pay-to-Play proposition, I will be very disappointed. While I know it will upset many local soccer associations if TFC's academy doesn't charge people to train and play for them, it is the only true way to ensure that the best players get identified and developed.

Frankly, the various local soccer associations should not be charging players to play at the elite levels and should fund those teams through registration fees for house league play. When you charge kids to play elite soccer, you tend to get the kids who are lucky enough to have the most financially capable parents.

Growing up, I knew of 2 young men who were loaded with talent but who came from families of extremely limited means and they could not continue with soccer after the age of 13 because of the financial commitment their parents had to make. Instead, they stopped playing altogether. My father offered to pay for one of these boys (who has supremely talented) to continue playing at the U-14 level with me but his family was too proud to accept my dad's money and so he quit the game.

[Macksam]

I guess if it's just a minor fee to actually join, it can't be too bad. However, it's all speculation until they make the big annoucement of what the plan is.

[jpg75]

I agree, it would be very shortsighted if they decided to charge players to play on the academy teams. They need to follow the Kerfoot model with the Whitecaps, in that they warehouse these teens year long and pay room and board and hire a top notch youth coach (Niendorf). It will attract the top talent in the area (and the rest of Canada) with the lure of an eventual pro contract. And they need to get these kids in as early as possible, once you get a kid in the system it only takes 2 years before he's eligible to be signed. With the amount of talent that leaves Canada for pro contracts in Europe nowadays there are some transfer monies that could cover the costs of the academy. As long as they get solid coaching and play in the Super Y league, it's a real alternative to Europe while being close (or closer) to home.

Now, the one little problem i see is that MLS skims 1/3 of the transfer fee and that the money the club gets has to be put back into player acquisitions...

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

John, you are absolutely bang on.

While I will always support TFC, if they make their academy a Pay-to-Play proposition, I will be very disappointed. While I know it will upset many local soccer associations if TFC's academy doesn't charge people to train and play for them, it is the only true way to ensure that the best players get identified and developed.

Frankly, the various local soccer associations should not be charging players to play at the elite levels and should fund those teams through registration fees for house league play. When you charge kids to play elite soccer, you tend to get the kids who are lucky enough to have the most financially capable parents.

Growing up, I knew of 2 young men who were loaded with talent but who came from families of extremely limited means and they could not continue with soccer after the age of 13 because of the financial commitment their parents had to make. Instead, they stopped playing altogether. My father offered to pay for one of these boys (who has supremely talented) to continue playing at the U-14 level with me but his family was too proud to accept my dad's money and so he quit the game.

How many times have I said that our lives are all about our children and that applies to even the pro teams including TFC. I hope that they will invest a very substantial amout of money to be a superb corporate citizen and also excersize their responsibility to put back a substantial amount into our soccer community. I truly hope that these bottom linr guys add in a line that says youth soccer development.

Knowing the corporate attitudes I am not sure if this will happen. I also expect us guys to monitor this and make sure they do.

[Macksam]

Hopefully the CSA pushes MLSE to do this. As far as I can see, the TFC youth academy is the country's only way into soccer success.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

Hopefully the CSA pushes MLSE to do this. As far as I can see, the TFC youth academy is the country's only way into soccer success.

There is so much more to developing talented palyers than having one club have a youth set up. It's bad enough that TFC is our only top flight club, and that in fact, there are only three pro clubs in Canada, but now we want them to develop our youth too?

Having three MLS teams isn't going to make Canada perennial World Cup qualifiers either. We need dozens of clubs developing players and providing competetion, and if that never happens, we will remain also-rans in the world of soccer.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

There is so much more to developing talented palyers than having one club have a youth set up. It's bad enough that TFC is our only top flight club, and that in fact, there are only three pro clubs in Canada, but now we want them to develop our youth too?

Having three MLS teams isn't going to make Canada perennial World Cup qualifiers either. We need dozens of clubs developing players and providing competetion, and if that never happens, we will remain also-rans in the world of soccer.

One club can do alot my friend. The Netherlands 1998 World Cup squad is one of the greatest teams of all time. The reason I bring that up is because Bergkamp, Overmars, Frank De Boer, Ronald De Boer, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Van Der Sarr and Reizenger were all on the starting eleven of the team, and they also all started out at Ajax. Imagine that, nine players out of the starting eleven were produced by one team in the country.

[RJB]

Macksam, that is an impressive haul of players for Ajax. Of course, one could also look at Man Utd in the early 1990's too.

That is certainly not ideal though. Can we expect that from Toronto FC? Certainly we can expect quality players to be developed, however the more clubs we have training young players, the better our chances of producing more talent.

Let us not forget, that for all those players at Ajax, there were others throughout the league that were providing a competetion for there place on the National Team.

[RJB]

Macksam, that is an impressive haul of players for Ajax. Of course, one could also look at Man Utd in the early 1990's too.

That is certainly not ideal though. Can we expect that from Toronto FC? Certainly we can expect quality players to be developed, however the more clubs we have training young players, the better our chances of producing more talent.

Let us not forget, that for all those players at Ajax, there were others throughout the league that were providing a competetion for there place on the National Team.

[Macksam]

That is true. It looks like we're going in the right direction with teams like Man United and Benfica setting up academies over here. Even with the big clubs coming over here, I expect TFC to develop the best academy in the country.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

But where are you going to find 12 towns in canada capable of supporting top flight soccer? Or what about 12 towns actually interested in soccer.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

One club can do alot my friend. The Netherlands 1998 World Cup squad is one of the greatest teams of all time. The reason I bring that up is because Bergkamp, Overmars, Frank De Boer, Ronald De Boer, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Van Der Sarr and Reizenger were all on the starting eleven of the team, and they also all started out at Ajax. Imagine that, nine players out of the starting eleven were produced by one team in the country.

You missed no uno Van Basten and the legendary Arnold Muhren.Both of them were directly involved in scoring one of the most spectacular goals ever scored in any competition.Some other graduates were Johnny Van't Schip ,Rijkhard, Neeskens as well as Johnny Rep. Anyway it is an endless list.

[Canuck Oranje]

Something most Dutchman do not want to admit is that the famed Ajax youth system has not been as successful since 1995. While they have developed some players, there are teams around the world that have done much better in the past 15 years.

The other thing that makes this model difficult to implement in Canada is geography and the lack of population density.

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

One club can do alot my friend. The Netherlands 1998 World Cup squad is one of the greatest teams of all time. The reason I bring that up is because Bergkamp, Overmars, Frank De Boer, Ronald De Boer, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Van Der Sarr and Reizenger were all on the starting eleven of the team, and they also all started out at Ajax. Imagine that, nine players out of the starting eleven were produced by one team in the country.

[Macksam]

I think the GTA population would be more than enough for it.

[nolando]

From Dean McNulty's recent column...

"Part of that scenario likely will include further roster changes, especially among some of the higher-paid Canadians on the team who aren't producing the kind of results Johnston had hoped for when he signed them."

So Sutton is gone, replaced by Kenny. Reda will undoubtedly be dumped, maybe Braz and Canizalez too. Have fun trying to replace those guys with much better quality Canadians, given the pittance that they are being paid. Who comes in for those wages - Gordon Chin? Lyall? Nash? Brillant? Really are those the types that will improve things much?

Good luck TFC. What a disapponting first year for MNT supporters watching TFC - I had thought that it wouldn't be great, but I could never have imagined the impact of TFC being this minimal, detrimental even, to our program. The club has essentially ensured that a few Canadians don't see any playing time at all this year - some gift to the MNT (to whom I am well aware they owe no favours -but still).

How many years are TFC gifted a reprieve before they have to dress/add more Canadians to their roster?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

From Dean McNulty's recent column...

"Part of that scenario likely will include further roster changes, especially among some of the higher-paid Canadians on the team who aren't producing the kind of results Johnston had hoped for when he signed them."

So Sutton is gone, replaced by Kenny. Reda will undoubtedly be dumped, maybe Braz and Canizalez too.

Canizalez & Braz are not two of the higher paid Canadians. In terms of senior players, only Lombardo is paid less. The article is likely referring to Reda only. If Sutton is healthy I expect he will be back.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the lower-paid Canizalez is not back. Same with Djekanovic. Mo doesn't seem to like either of them.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

The article is likely referring to Reda only.

I agree. He's on too substantial a wage just to sit on the bench, without the advantage of youth on his side. I'm pretty sure he'll be gone at season's end. At least Braz is getting some matches in but his statuesque defending on Fred's goal last week wouldn't have impressed any coach, let alone Mo.

[Cheeta]

Hard to argue against. Mo isn't in a position to dump any of his Canadians who have a reasonable chance at playing.

Higher paid, lower paid or whatever. What's the alternative?

Yeah, MC2 and Mo are not hitting it off. And I'm not sure that's all Mo's fault. Canizalez may not have the energy for MLS. He's just a poor fit for this league.

That being said, Mo hasn't realy displayed any surprising managment qualities. He's for all intents and purposes a rookie and it's shown. He's spent much of the year casting about trying to find players who he's imagined would fit his scheme of play instead of recognizing his player pool limitations and tooling around that. I expect Mo will be given one more year to show improvement we'll see what happens with that.

(And isn't that interesting? We're learning as much about our MNT player pool, the fringes anyway, from those who're failing as by those who're succeeding. Huh. Shouldn't be surprised I guess, but that's a MLS angle we don't often discuss).