CanPL participation Leagues Cup

[Obinna]

Disclaimer - This is pure fantasy right now. Just wanted to do a thought experiement. There's no news of this becoming reality at the moment. 

I posted this in the General CPL thread, but felt it could use a fresh topic to discuss the possibility of it happening. There's obviously a ton of challenges and we can discuss them in the thread, but I thought I would kick it off by just thinking about the travel and logistics...

Here's my attempt at three team groups that adhere to geography. It was challenging but I was able to do it having just a single group (Central 2) with only MLS teams. Maybe eventual CPL expansion to Saskatchwean could remedy that.  

Feel free to tell me what you think, and/or use this as a general discussion place for CanPL and Leagues Cup and how or if it could be possible. 

North East 1

• New England Revolution
• Halifax Wanderers
• New York City FC

North East 2

• CF Montreal
• Atletico Ottawa
• New York Red Bull

North East 3

• Toronto FC
• York United
• Philadelphia Union

North East 4

• Forge FC
• Columbus
• DC United

Central 1

• Minnesota
• Valour
• Chicago

Central 2

• St. Louis
• Sporting Kansas City
• Cincinnati

North West 1

• Vancouver Whitecaps
• Cavalry FC
• Portland

North West 2

• Seattle
• Pacific FC
• Real Salt Lake

North West 3

• Colorado
• Vancouver FC
• Edmonton FC (they don't exist right now, but need one more team)

South East 1

• Inter Maimi
• Charlotte
• UNAL Tigres

South East 2

• Orlando
• Nashville
• CF Monterrey 

South East 3

• Atlanta United
• Pachuca
• Puebla

South Central 1

• FC Dallas
• America
• UNAM

South Central 2

• Austin
• Toluca
• Cruz Azul

South Central 3

• Houston
• Santos Laguna
• Leon

South West 1

• San Jose
• Tijuana
• Necaxa

South West 2

• LAFC
• Chivas Guadalajara CD
• Mazatlan

South West 3

• LA Galaxy
• Atlas
• Queretaro

South West 4

• San Diego (Expansion 2025)
• San Luis
• Juarez

Edited September 25, 2023 by Obinna

[Obinna]

I wonder if they could make it so that Liga MX teams and CanPL teams get to host all group stage games, but then all knockout games remain in the United States?

It would make sense for a bunch of reasons:

• Firstly Liga MX teams (and CanPL teams) deserve to host, just to make the competition more equitable. It was a joke having MLS teams host every game and people understood the money generating opportunities, but some Liga MX teams were very unhappy and I this will have to be fixed somehow. This could be the solution. 
• Secondly, to build on that first point, having CanPL teams makes away travel in the group stage easier for MLS teams. You basically have Northern MLS teams going to Canada and Southern MLS teams going to Mexico. Philadelphia flying to York United is far more sensible than Tijuana flying to Philadelphia as part of an "East" group. 
• Thirdly, having MLS teams host knockouts retains some of the money generating oppportunities that currently have all the games in the USA. Let's face it, most if not all CanPL teams in the Northern groups will get knocked out, and Liga MX teams should mostly come out of the Southern groups, since they'd be hosting and a lot of those groups have two Liga MX teams anyways. 
• And finally, to build on that third point, I think Northern MLS teams have a competitive advantage to start, having only to play CanPL teams, but in the long term Southern MLS teams would gain some cool perks having a tougher road, because playing away gives them experience in tough away environments and perhaps helps the clubs market themselves in Mexico. We saw LAFC fans travel well to Mexico in CCL and so that trend may continue. Plus if they get out of the group they have those Liga MX hosting opportunities in front of them. 

Obviously there'd need to be a way to decide which MLS team hosts a group stage game IF they faced each other - ditto in the knockouts..... and IF a Liga MX and CanPL sides faced each other in the knockouts, there'd have to be a way to determine it....and I don't think home and away works because the number of games could be insane. Maybe the final or semi-final your could...

Edited September 25, 2023 by Obinna

[Shway]

As the CPL grows, I think the conversation needs to be had that the CPL deserves to be included in that tournament.

They are the only league that isn't included in a continental qualifier for the CCC.

I think it would be massive for the league, regardless of the result. The exposure, prestige will favour the league rather than hurt it. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Shway
Included not good.

[Obinna]

10 hours ago, Shway said:

As the CPL grows, I think the conversation needs to be had that the CPL deserves to be in good tournament.

They are the only league that isn't included in a continental qualifier for the CCC.

I think it would be massive for the league, regardless of the result. The exposure, prestige will favour the league rather than hurt it. 

In my proposed format with CPL clubs hosting group games, it could be a real money maker for the clubs with big CFL stadiums. Think about how many tickets Valour could draw hosting Chicago, Minnesota or St. Louis. I bet they could push a sell out, especially if there is a big name player or two visiting the Peg, which doesn't obviously get the chance to host such events like Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver. It would definitely put that big stadium to use and give them a financial boost. Forge and Ottawa are both close enough to the population heart of Canada that MLS games may not be such a big deal, but they would probably double ticket sales and both of those teams have the stadiums to host.

Smaller stadiums like Calgary, Pacific and Halifax wouldn't be as profitable, just two extra home dates, which does bring in money. Cavalry tickets for example are not so cheap that you can double the ticket price for an MLS team and expect them to sell like hot cakes, I don't think. Maybe you could raise the price a bit, but I have seen two MLS clubs play here and I don't recall the tickets being anymore expensive, so I doubt the average fan is going to want to pay a premium to see Portland, Colorado, or Seattle when they've recently seen Vancouver. Pretty much the same difference.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

Completely out of the box idea, but I really think the Leagues Cup window should be used as an opportunity for domestic football - seeing as Mexican clubs are less of a draw here in Canada relative to the States.

There's two options:

-Schedule the Canadian Championship during the window. It solves the problem of timing, since the current early int he year scheduling disadvantages CanPL teams and is a struggle to host for many clubs given the weather. Having an uninterrupted block of time for the V-Cup could also in theory lead to bigger attention paid and stronger narratives, as this becomes the only soccer competition occurring at this time.

-Considering it's a pipe dream for the three MLS clubs to be forced to CPL any time soon, this might be an opportunity to organize a Canadian first division that includes the MLS teams (while allowing them to remain in the MLS). The Leagues Cup Window provides 9 match days, so you can either do East/West conferences home/away (you can count the MLS and CPL matchups towards the table if there aren't enough match days) and playoffs. Or a single table with a single matchup (again, counting MLS/CPL matches outside this window if needed).

Another idea to reduce the number of match days needed would be to limit the number of CPL clubs participating in this new 'top division'. This can either occur through 'pro/rel', where the lowest ranked CPL club gets relegated (in this case stops participating the following year), and the top ranked unqualified CPL club qualifies for the following year. Alternatively, if people worry about depreciating CPL's value in the eyes of fans, just make it so that the top CPL teams every year qualifies for the following year's 'top division', instead of pro/rel. You'd have to think of some way to fill the schedules of non-participating CPL teams during this window though.

[SpursFlu]

I'm not sure in the short term this is viable. I think top to bottom there is just too much of a wage gap between our leagues. I would rather see an expansion of the Champions League at this time. Maybe get to 32 teams and another 1 or 2 CPL teams included. I think on any given Sunday against the MLS or LigaMX but CPL against Central America needs to be layered in ad those leagues are very comparable at the moment 

Edited September 29, 2023 by SpursFlu

[PaulV]

One of the reasons why the Leagues Cup even exists is the huge interest in Mexican soccer clubs in the US, particularly in the South and/or cities with a large Hispanic population. That's a huge money maker and driver of this pretty-much-contrived competition. I don't think anyone there really cares to watch CPL clubs play. Combine that with the huge wage disparity, and questionable competitiveness, and there doesn't really seem to be any justification for including them.

A Leagues Cup equivalent with the USLC and Mexican second division might be more realistic if people are tired of their home clubs playing against the same domestic competition over and over again.

[Unnamed Trialist]

42 minutes ago, PaulV said:

One of the reasons why the Leagues Cup even exists is the huge interest in Mexican soccer clubs in the US, particularly in the South and/or cities with a large Hispanic population. That's a huge money maker and driver of this pretty-much-contrived competition. I don't think anyone there really cares to watch CPL clubs play. Combine that with the huge wage disparity, and questionable competitiveness, and there doesn't really seem to be any justification for including them.

A Leagues Cup equivalent with the USLC and Mexican second division might be more realistic if people are tired of their home clubs playing against the same domestic competition over and over again.

I would like to see what % of fans especially went to see Mexican teams in Leagues Cup that were not already Mexican fans. Low I think. So you can't argue few fans care about CPL because few Vancouver or TFC, Montreal fans are interested in Tigres or Club America.

But maybe just the fact that you're getting Mexican fans out in Vancouver is enough. 

I dislike Leagues Cup because it's a closed private monopoly system, defying merit-based competition principles, sanctioned by CONCACAF, which Fifa should prohibit entirely.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, PaulV said:

One of the reasons why the Leagues Cup even exists is the huge interest in Mexican soccer clubs in the US, particularly in the South and/or cities with a large Hispanic population. That's a huge money maker and driver of this pretty-much-contrived competition.

Fixed.

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I dislike Leagues Cup because it's a closed private monopoly system, defying merit-based competition principles, sanctioned by CONCACAF,

Technically, this also applies to MLS, CPL, and now Liga MX.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Technically, this also applies to MLS, CPL, and now Liga MX.

If the competition did not qualify for another competition I would care a lot less.

They're so clueless they'll take Messi winning as a sign fans like it.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, PaulV said:

One of the reasons why the Leagues Cup even exists is the huge interest in Mexican soccer clubs in the US, particularly in the South and/or cities with a large Hispanic population. That's a huge money maker and driver of this pretty-much-contrived competition. I don't think anyone there really cares to watch CPL clubs play...

The same can be said about some of the less well known Liga MX clubs as witnessed by crowd levels in Austin during the initial round robin round. The CanPL teams could always have been grouped mainly with those less well supported Mexican teams and/or the Canadian MLS team.

Most of CONCACAF plays a fall to spring season format to avoid the middle of summer for obvious reasons so direct entry into the earliest round in the Champions Cup is likely to mean a home game in late Feb. How likely is that to work in Calgary and how many players will they even have signed at that point?

[xcalibre]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:01 PM, Kent said:

Fixed.

Exactly, this is CONCACAF. The idea is less competitive merit and more maxing out games between US and Mexican teams (in the Southwest if possible)