Spain WNT and federation

[Unnamed Trialist]

In case anyone is interested in more details, I'm willing to get into it.

 

[narduch]

Yes please 

[BearcatSA]

Fire away!

[red card]

FIFA has suspended Rubiales for 90 days while it investigates. Rubiales has 3 days to appeal it.

Rafa del Amo, an RFEF vice-president and member of its women’s football committee, resigned from his position, as well as four other regional federation presidents.

Borja Iglesias, a Real Betis striker who played for Spain’s men’s team in March, announced he would no longer represent his country “until things change and this type of acts no longer go unpunished”.

Osasuna, Celta Vigo, Espanyol and Sevilla called for Rubiales’ “immediate dismissal”.

Victor Francos, president of Spain’s High Sports Council, said the government body will start disciplinary proceedings that could result in Rubiales’ suspension.

The entire coaching staff of the women's team resigned ex Vilda. Rubiales announced in his speech yesterday that Vilda's pay is getting bumped to US$500k/yr.

Luis de la Fuentes, Spain's men's team coach, condemned Rubiales today. He gave him a standing ovation at yesterday's speech.

World reaction:

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by red card

[kacbru]

Perhaps it has reached a tipping point. If Rubiales had quickly apologized, it would have been put down as the disgusting actions of a single individual. But his efforts to quadruple down on 'I did no wrong' (and the efforts of his enablers) have made it clear how deep the rot is. Rubiales is simply a symptom of what is wrong with Spanish Federation and everyone is forced to state where they stand. 

The fact that those who were wildly applauding Rubiales on Friday, are now condemning him is telling. Who knows how deep the cultural shift will be, but there will be a shift. 

[The Ref]

I always understood that Fifa would not interfere in the internal politics of any country's Federation.  Since Fifa has now suspended Rubiales is that action from Fifa a change of its own regulations?

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

I always understood that Fifa would not interfere in the internal politics of any country's Federation.  Since Fifa has now suspended Rubiales is that action from Fifa a change of its own regulations?

Not sure that is correct: FIFA does not allow a country's political structure-politicians, legal system, law-- to intervene in the internal politics of a member federation in issues concerning the game. FIFA has its own governance, rules, discipline, not entirely exclusive of course but fairly comprehensive. So FIFA can intervene, and if they don't, they can be petitioned to, or a case can be made before them. 

This contrasts with how the internal Spanish political and legal process was going to be extremely slow, either a legal case for harrassment, or a process whereby the ministry of sport intervenes based on laws regarding sports organisations, but either would take months if not years. FIFA enables that long, drawnout battle, to be circumvented.

The new president is the former VP, and part of Rubiales' team. Difficult for him to take a clearly independent line and do the right thing.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just a thought: Canada's biggest successes in men and women came under Bontis. The Spanish women's teams at all ages are world champions under Rubiales, in fact almost directly related to his tenure.

I think you can't ignore that teams can achieve success in very complicated circumstances, and that the longstanding argument that you need a fully functional FA for your NTs to work is flawed. 

Or another way to put this: you can achieve success despite or with your back turned to what your FA is doing. Or when other factors independent of the FA, like clubs, development, sponsors, fall into place. Or when you have generational talent that overrides administrative and human defects on the organizational/governance side.

[RS]

18 hours ago, red card said:

Luis de la Fuentes, Spain's men's team coach, condemned Rubiales today. He gave him a standing ovation at yesterday's speech.

What a clown.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, RS said:

What a clown.

It was a forced situation at the assembly, so you could partially understand it. Though I am bothered by a lot of all that.

The national team coaches don't even have a vote necessarily at the federation assemblies, they don't even have to be there. So they sat them in the front row as special guests, where they'd be seen, and that was a clearly uncomfortable. They clapped at a lot of stupidity, the worst for me when an assembly of 132 men and 8 women got a lesson on the difference between authentic feminism and "false feminism". Big applause. That was so embarrassing.

The 2nd coach for the women, also in the front row, had already decided to resign… but then Rubiales announced he was giving her a raise. Applause.

There was no vote. You'd think there would have been a (non) confidence motion, but none of that.

You refer to De la Fuente, everyone admires him, he's modest, but like Vilda he's spent his entire coaching career inside the Spanish federation.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[GasPed]

I'm still trying to process all of this, and it still doesn't compute.  I mean the incident is clearly evident for all to see, and I would expect Rubiales to say all the things he's saying (i.e. harmless, consensual, etc.).  But what I'm trying to understand is how Hermoso got from this:

Quote

"It was a mutual, totally spontaneous gesture because of the huge joy of winning a World Cup. The 'presi' and I have a great relationship. His behavior with us has been a '10.' It was a natural gesture, of affection and gratitude... We've won a World Cup, and we won't get away from what's important."

to this:

Quote

"The situation shocked me given the celebrations that were taking place at the moment, and with the passage of time and after delving a little deeper into those initial feelings, I feel the need to report this incident because I believe that no person, in any work, sports, or social setting should be a victim of these types of non-consensual behaviors. I felt vulnerable and a victim of an impulse-driven, sexist, out of place act without any consent on my part."

I'm wondering what exactly happened in the "passage of time".  Was it a case of realizing that she actually wasn't ok with the gesture, and that she needed to restate her position and take a stand against it?  Or did she realize that there was a larger cause (women's rights vs. outdated social customs) that she needed to champion?  Or that she really didn't like "el presi" (and/or the Spanish federation) as she much as initially said?  At any rate, what was a historic victory has certainly become historic for entirely other reasons.  Not great.  🙁

[Colonel Green]

2 hours ago, GasPed said:

But what I'm trying to understand is how Hermoso got from this:

Hermoso never said that, per multiple reports (including The Athletic). The RFEF fabricated that quotation for the initial press release to make Rubiales look good.

[GasPed]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Hermoso never said that, per multiple reports (including The Athletic). The RFEF fabricated that quotation for the initial press release to make Rubiales look good.

Ah yes, I see The Athletic article now ("However, a source familiar with the situation, speaking anonymously to protect their position, tells The Athletic that Hermoso did not provide any such comment.").  Thanks - the plot thickens...  

[The Ref]

Now Rubiales' mother started a hunger strike in support of her son. 

 

[nolando]

3 hours ago, The Ref said:

Now Rubiales' mother started a hunger strike in support of her son. 

 

My God. I thought you were kidding: 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/28/spanish-football-chief-luis-rubialess-mother-on-hunger-strike-over-her-sons-treatment

[The Ref]

The way I understand it now Jenni Hermoso has 15 days to formalize a charge for "delito de agresión sexual" with the Spanish Federation.  https://www.elheraldo.co/deportes/fiscalia-de-espana-abre-investigacion-contra-luis-rubiales-por-beso-jenni-hermoso-1028257

[Unnamed Trialist]

It's such a wild case.

A spokesman for the UN pitched in yesterday, with General Secretary Guterres there. This is the big issue concerning them, maybe they're confused because they were the original League of Nations.

Then Australian authorities rightly remind us that the incident took place there and that any legal complaint would have to be filed there as well.

All the Spanish regional federation presidents who applauded him 4 days ago now are laying in hard, surely to save their own asses.

Rubiales made 700 thousand € before taxes (50% here), plus 250 grand from UEFA. The previous president Villar, who was in power since the 80s, made 150,000 his last year, in 2017. He was kicked out for financial irregularities. It's not clear if Rubiales's salary can be blocked.

[The Ref]

After 3 days of hunger strike by the mother of Rubiales, she had to be hospitalized. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Now his player card is selling for a good sum. 

https://as.com/tikitakas/el-cromo-de-rubiales-que-se-vende-en-wallapop-hasta-por-850-euros-n/

I think my son had it in one of his early books of cards.

[Unnamed Trialist]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38283613/vilda-fired-spain-boss-rubiales-unsolicited-kiss-fallout-source

Vilda fired. It's not fully clear it was Vilda who was really the problem, he was never directly mentioned and there are aspects of his coaching that seem strong. Still, others in close say he wasn't that knowledgeable and it was his assistants who did everything.

I think some of what he did in NZ/Australia was very high football IQ.

He'll be hurt for future female football jobs. But the world championship coach should be able to coach men, wouldn't you say?

[GasPed]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38283613/vilda-fired-spain-boss-rubiales-unsolicited-kiss-fallout-source

Vilda fired. It's not fully clear it was Vilda who was really the problem, he was never directly mentioned and there are aspects of his coaching that seem strong. Still, others in close say he wasn't that knowledgeable and it was his assistants who did everything.

I think some of what he did in NZ/Australia was very high football IQ.

He'll be hurt for future female football jobs. But the world championship coach should be able to coach men, wouldn't you say?

I have to think that he'll have a toxic black cloud hanging over him (deserved or not) for a long time.  And any men's team foolish enough to even talk to him would be immediately censured in the court of public opinion (which is the court that really counts).

[The Ref]

11 minutes ago, GasPed said:

I have to think that he'll have a toxic black cloud hanging over him (deserved or not) for a long time.  And any men's team foolish enough to even talk to him would be immediately censured in the court of public opinion (which is the court that really counts).

Vilda with a curriculum of having won the World Cup should attract more than a few offers.  Canada attracted Pellerud after he won the Cup with Norway.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

Vilda with a curriculum of having won the World Cup should attract more than a few offers.  Canada attracted Pellerud after he won the Cup with Norway.

True. But I think we're at a point where we need more female coaches in higher places. I see no reason why Vilda couldn't go to a men's team in Spain.

[GasPed]

58 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

True. But I think we're at a point where we need more female coaches in higher places. I see no reason why Vilda couldn't go to a men's team in Spain.

If Vilda could go to a Spanish men's team right now, then the culture over there must be way different than here.  E.g. Bill Peters, former top NHL coach, was accused of racism and bullying in 2019, and fired.  He had to go to Russia to get another job, and after he was released there, was unemployed until recently hired by a junior hockey team (to a large and predictable outcry).  Also, on the soccer front, to my knowledge, no coach who was named in the NWSL's 2021 report on abuse has been hired into a soccer job yet (save Farid Benstiti, who is coaching Algeria's women's team).

That said, I could be reading the room completely wrong.  But I do think that if say, Herdman, as CWNT coach, was accused of the same things Vilda is/was, he would be canned and it would be a long time before anyone in North America would hire him.

[The Ref]

Someone please clarify to me what are the specific charges against Vilda.  He was not the kissing coach, that was Rubiales.  I remember reading that Vilda was given a salary increase as a reward for winning the Cup.  Now he gets fired!