New CONCACAF And CONMOBEL Club Competition

[narduch]

More details to follow.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by narduch

[Watchmen]

So, CONCACAF Champions League winner, Leagues Cup winner, Copa Libertadores winner, and Copa Sudamericana winners, right? I mean, that makes the most sense.

[narduch]

10 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

So, CONCACAF Champions League winner, Leagues Cup winner, Copa Libertadores winner, and Copa Sudamericana winners, right? I mean, that makes the most sense.

Leagues Cup winner doesn't make sense at all. That would really piss off all the other nations.

Going to assume it will be the finalist for CCL and  Copa Libertadores.

I wonder if this will push Concacaf to change when CCL ends to align with Copa Libertadores which ends in Novermber.

[Watchmen]

11 minutes ago, narduch said:

Leagues Cup winner doesn't make sense at all. That would really piss off all the other nations.

Going to assume it will be the finalist for CCL and  Copa Libertadores.

I wonder if this will push Concacaf to change when CCL ends to align with Copa Libertadores which ends in Novermber.

There hasn't been a non-MLS or Liga MX team in the CCL final since 2008 and the gap is widening not closing, so outside of CPL fans I'm not sure who's really going to be "pissed off".

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

There hasn't been a non-MLS or Liga MX team in the CCL final since 2008 and the gap is widening not closing, so outside of CPL fans I'm not sure who's really going to be "pissed off".

You think Honduras, Costa Rica, etc. would be ok with that?

Has nothing to do with CPL.

Unless of course MLS/La MX want to open their tournament up to the rest of Concacaf what you are suggesting is a bad idea.

[Watchmen]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

You think Honduras, Costa Rica, etc. would be ok with that?

Has nothing to do with CPL.

Unless of course MLS/La MX want to open their tournament up to the rest of Concacaf what you are suggesting is a bad idea.

I'm saying I don't think they care to the level that CPL fans do. The tournament is being specifically designed for bigger clubs. A better argument against my format is that the Copa Sudamericana winner isn't always a big club.

[narduch]

14 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm saying I don't think they care to the level that CPL fans do. The tournament is being specifically designed for bigger clubs. A better argument against my format is that the Copa Sudamericana winner isn't always a big club.

But Copa Sudamericana is open to all Conmebol nations. You can't say the same about Leagues Cup.

[Watchmen]

Just now, narduch said:

But Copa Sudamericana is open to all Conmebol nations. You can't say the same about Leagues Cup.

We just went through an era of the CCL where none of the leagues outside of Liga MX and MLS were guaranteed a spot in the CCL. I found that format to be much more egregious than this, yet all the countries accepted it.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

We just went through an era of the CCL where none of the leagues outside of Liga MX and MLS were guaranteed a spot in the CCL. I found that format to be much more egregious than this, yet all the countries accepted it.

But at least they had access to the tournament and could qualify for it.

The Leagues Cup does not offer them that.

Really not the same thing at all.

[Watchmen]

35 minutes ago, narduch said:

But at least they had access to the tournament and could qualify for it.

The Leagues Cup does not offer them that.

Really not the same thing at all.

You keep assuming CONCACAF cares. They're setting it up to be two of MLS or Liga MX. Leagues Cup gives them that while legitimizing it further, which they probably want to do now that it's under CONCACAF control.

[Kent]

No teams outside of MLS or Liga MX will ever win CCL anyways, and we don't want to lose Mexican or American money/eyeballs by having one fail to make it to this final 4 event, so why not just have the MLS Cup champs and the Liga MX champs qualify? <sarcasm>

I hope qualifying will be through CCL, or it gets added to the long list of gripes I have about CONCACAF's USA/MLS/Mexico pandering.

[Ansem]

58 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

You keep assuming CONCACAF cares. They're setting it up to be two of MLS or Liga MX. Leagues Cup gives them that while legitimizing it further, which they probably want to do now that it's under CONCACAF control.

You keep assuming that CONCACAF doesn't give a crap about the rest of the region *who holds the lionshare of the vote for president*🙄

It will be through CCL - no league cup. Doesn't matter that Liga MX and MLS will win it for the foreseeable future. That's up to the clubs from the rest of the confederation to do something about it but denying them the same opportunity by qualifying a League Cup team would indeed piss them off.

Lastly - qualification to Club World Cup and now the CONMEBOL tournament goes through CCL - why on earth would CONCACAF give the League Cup winner a berth which would increase its importance at the expanse of the CCL who's trying to increase theirs? If anything I predict that the next CCL format will bring back the group stage and force the league to cut the amount of League cup games or truly face schedule congestion

Edited January 27, 2023 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You keep assuming that CONCACAF doesn't give a crap about the rest of the region *who holds the lionshare of the vote for president*🙄

It will be through CCL - no league cup. Doesn't matter that Liga MX and MLS will win it for the foreseeable future. That's up to the clubs from the rest of the confederation to do something about it but denying them the same opportunity by qualifying a League Cup team would indeed piss them off.

Lastly - qualification to Club World Cup and now the CONMEBOL tournament goes through CCL - why on earth would CONCACAF give the League Cup winner a berth which would increase its importance at the expanse of the CCL who's trying to increase theirs? If anything I predict that the next CCL format will bring back the group stage and force the league to cut the amount of League cup games or truly face schedule congestion

The Gold Cup is deliberately set up so that it's a US-Mexico final every time. The CCL was changed so that only Liga MX and MLS sides qualified directly for the CCL, and the group stages were eliminated. CONCACAF sanctioned a new competition between only Liga MX and MLS.  All of these things are done with permission from those who hold the lions share of votes in the region. 

So it very well could be the two CCL finalists and that would be fine, but don't be shocked if it's not.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Watchmen

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The Gold Cup is deliberately set up so that it's a US-Mexico final every time. The CCL was changed so that only Liga MX and MLS sides qualified directly for the CCL, and the group stages were eliminated. CONCACAF sanctioned a new competition between only Liga MX and MLS.  All of these things are done with permission from those who hold the lions share of votes in the region. 

By necessity with money being redistributed among its members for the Gold Cup while MLS complained about schedule congestion for CCL- sure but hardly CONCACAF's preference.

 

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

So it very well could be the two CCL finalists and that would be fine, but don't be shocked if it's not.

If MLS-Liga MX are that dominant, you get the same result in the end without denying 2 qualifying spots to the rest of the region. CCL makes more sense

Edited January 27, 2023 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If MLS-Liga MX are that dominant, you get the same result in the end without denying 2 qualifying spots to the rest of the region. CCL makes more sense

You mean 1 spot, since all regions are eligible for the CCL spot regardless. 

We'll see where it goes. As I said, two from CCL is fine but 1 to Leagues wouldn't shock me.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

No teams outside of MLS or Liga MX will ever win CCL anyways, and we don't want to lose Mexican or American money/eyeballs by having one fail to make it to this final 4 event, so why not just have the MLS Cup champs and the Liga MX champs qualify? <sarcasm>

I hope qualifying will be through CCL, or it gets added to the long list of gripes I have about CONCACAF's USA/MLS/Mexico pandering.

There's a non-zero chance that that is also what they do. It would not shock me.  This is being set up as a money making venture, not as a real tournament. 

[SpursFlu]

4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

So, CONCACAF Champions League winner, Leagues Cup winner, Copa Libertadores winner, and Copa Sudamericana winners, right? I mean, that makes the most sense.

This definitely makes the most sense. You can't just take the two finalists from each confederation competition because the teams are redundant at that point. I think the only issue is Conmebol does have a Recopa or whatever between their two competitions already.

Just as long as teams go because they earned it and they don't just pick who they like

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

By necessity with money being redistributed among its members for the Gold Cup while MLS complained about schedule congestion for CCL- sure but hardly CONCACAF's preference.

 

If MLS-Liga MX are that dominant, you get the same result in the end without denying 2 qualifying spots to the rest of the region. CCL makes more sense

It's almost just as bad in South America at the moment. Brazil is pretty dominant and they just allowed foreign ownership even more money is starting to flow in. Chances are unless you rig it you'll get 2 Brazil teams. Not 100% but my point is it's not all that different 

I think you have to be realistic at the moment and then see what the future holds. They'll probably slot this is where the Club World Cup sits currently in the calendar and see where you go from there. I think this is a good start

Edited January 27, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Ansem]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:53 PM, SpursFlu said:

It's almost just as bad in South America at the moment. Brazil is pretty dominant and they just allowed foreign ownership even more money is starting to flow in. Chances are unless you rig it you'll get 2 Brazil teams. Not 100% but my point is it's not all that different 

I think you have to be realistic at the moment and then see what the future holds. They'll probably slot this is where the Club World Cup sits currently in the calendar and see where you go from there. I think this is a good start

My only point is that League Cup exclude the rest of the region - that's a terrible way to set up the road to higher club competition

At least Copa Sudamericana is opened to all the leagues in their confederation, league cup doesn't. It's  just dumb

[SpursFlu]

21 minutes ago, Ansem said:

My only point is that League Cup exclude the rest of the region - that's a terrible way to set up the road to higher club competition

At least Copa Sudamericana is opened to all the leagues in their confederation, league cup doesn't. It's  just dumb

Yah I agree. I wouldn't mind a europa type of competition. Go to 4 groups of 4 for Champions and have the 2 or 3rd place team drop to the 2nd competition. The more I think of the new Champions league coupled with the Leagues Cup it just feels like a mess

Edited January 29, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Kingston]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:12 PM, Watchmen said:

I'm saying I don't think they care to the level that CPL fans do. The tournament is being specifically designed for bigger clubs. A better argument against my format is that the Copa Sudamericana winner isn't always a big club.

 

On 1/27/2023 at 2:28 PM, narduch said:

But Copa Sudamericana is open to all Conmebol nations. You can't say the same about Leagues Cup.

Maybe they could set up a separate tournament for the winners of all the smaller leagues.  Sort of like the CONCACAF Champions League but not quite as prestigious.  Any maybe there could even be a way for the winners of this less prestigious tournament to qualify for the CCL.  Now we just need a name... maybe something like the CCL, but without the Champions part?

[Ruffian]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

 

Maybe they could set up a separate tournament for the winners of all the smaller leagues.  Sort of like the CONCACAF Champions League but not quite as prestigious.  Any maybe there could even be a way for the winners of this less prestigious tournament to qualify for the CCL.  Now we just need a name... maybe something like the CCL, but without the Champions part?

Maybe Scotiabank would even sponsor it!

[Goal_Kick]

4 hours ago, Kingston said:

 

Maybe they could set up a separate tournament for the winners of all the smaller leagues.  Sort of like the CONCACAF Champions League but not quite as prestigious.  Any maybe there could even be a way for the winners of this less prestigious tournament to qualify for the CCL.  Now we just need a name... maybe something like the CCL, but without the Champions part?

The Concacaf Europa League?

[narduch]

So now reports are coming out that Concacaf teams will start playing in Copa Libertadores starting in 2024.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by narduch

[SpursFlu]

Concacaf Champions League, Leagues Cup, Copa Libertadores 

Somethings gotta give here