2023 Voyageurs Cup

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Kingston said:

I'm not sure that's true.

The V-Cup will be over by June 8.  The first League's Cup games are July 21.  Even if avoiding the Leagues Cup was on the CSA's radar, there's a month and a half they still had to work with.

So perhaps the CSA is messing up but blaming it on the Leagues Cup doesn't seem to be correct.

After June 8 is Nations League and Gold Cup.

Pretty obvious the MLS clubs are driving the dates.

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

After June 8 is Nations League and Gold Cup.

Pretty obvious the MLS clubs are driving the dates.

How does getting the tournament done before national team events show that MLS teams are driving the dates?

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Kingston said:

How does getting the tournament done before national team events show that MLS teams are driving the dates?

It doesn't. It just shows that there was less room in the schedule that time.

You can remain naive if you want to. Cest la vie.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

I'm not sure that's true.

The V-Cup will be over by June 8.  The first League's Cup games are July 21.  Even if avoiding the Leagues Cup was on the CSA's radar, there's a month and a half they still had to work with.

So perhaps the CSA is messing up but blaming it on the Leagues Cup doesn't seem to be correct.

This is the earliest I can remember this tournament will end with the most teams ever while in the past in usually ended later with far less clubs involved - I don't believe in coincidence

At least the Americans split their Open Cup in half (Spring/end of summer-fall). Why can't we have the common sense of NOT sending D3 clubs who won't even have a game under their belts against MLS teams that will be 2 month into their season while CPL will be 1 week into theirs?

Inexcusable when the USSF finds a way despite juggling far more teams than the CSA.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

This is the earliest I can remember this tournament will end with the most teams ever while in the past in usually ended later with far less clubs involved - I don't believe in coincidence

At least the Americans split their Open Cup in half (Spring/end of summer-fall). Why can't we have the common sense of NOT sending D3 clubs who won't even have a game under their belts against MLS teams that will be 2 month into their season while CPL will be 1 week into theirs?

Inexcusable when the USSF finds a way despite juggling far more teams than the CSA.

Seriously. Who benefits from starting this in mid April and ending it by June 8?

We are bending over backwards for the 3 MLS clubs to play in their plastic tournament. Its fucking gross.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

Seriously. Who benefits from starting this in mid April and ending it by June 8?

We are bending over backwards for the 3 MLS clubs to play in their plastic tournament. Its fucking gross.

It's not like the CSA gets a dime for accommodating the 3 MLS clubs, even less if they win anything. I think this is an older culture/mindset coming from a time where they were the only one. At the time, you could justify it.

As of today with CPL and L1C? No f'n excuses - this mindset/nostalgia needs to end and those who still think/feel that way like Bontis have no business at the CSA. New people with new ideas are needed.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ansem

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's not like the CSA gets a dime for accommodating the 3 MLS clubs, even less if they win anything. I think this is an older culture/mindset coming from a time where they were the only one. At the time, you could justify it.

As of today with CPL and L1C? No f'n excuses - this mindset/nostalgia needs to end and those who still think/feel that way like Bontis have no business at the CSA. New people with new ideas are needed.

Bontis is a piece of shit. 

[Kingston]

23 minutes ago, narduch said:

It doesn't. It just shows that there was less room in the schedule that time.

You can remain naive if you want to. Cest la vie.

Help me out here:

You say that the V-Cup starting early shows it is "obvious the MLS teams are driving the dates".

I ask how the tournament ending in time for Nations League shows that MLS teams are driving the dates.

You reply, "It doesn't."

So does it obviously show it or does it not show it?

I get that you, Ansem, and a couple of other posters on these boards really don't like the Canadian MLS teams.  I'm not sure why but you are entitled to your opinions.  That doesn't, however, mean that everything you don't like about Canadian soccer is some sort of conspiracy to favour the Canadian MLS teams.  In this case, for example, ending the V-Cup a month and a half before the Leagues Cup does not actually reveal some pro-MLS bias in the CSA even though I personally agree it is dumb for the CSA to start the tournament before the D3 leagues start play.

[Watchmen]

The CSA bowing to the MLS clubs to not hold the final during Nations League/Gold Cup/Leagues Cup is still fine, because as a number of anti-MLS posters have pointed out the US Open final isn't until after all of that. So the final schedule is on the CSA, not the MLS clubs.

[narduch]

18 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Help me out here:

You say that the V-Cup starting early shows it is "obvious the MLS teams are driving the dates".

I ask how the tournament ending in time for Nations League shows that MLS teams are driving the dates.

You reply, "It doesn't."

So does it obviously show it or does it not show it?

I get that you, Ansem, and a couple of other posters on these boards really don't like the Canadian MLS teams.  I'm not sure why but you are entitled to your opinions.  That doesn't, however, mean that everything you don't like about Canadian soccer is some sort of conspiracy to favour the Canadian MLS teams.  In this case, for example, ending the V-Cup a month and a half before the Leagues Cup does not actually reveal some pro-MLS bias in the CSA even though I personally agree it is dumb for the CSA to start the tournament before the D3 leagues start play.

You are arguing that the CSA had plenty of time to extend the Voyageurs Cup longer and didn't need to start in mid April.

I'm telling you they couldn't do that and still appease the 3 MLS clubs desire to wrap this up before the stupid Leagues Cup starts (July 21).

The window for the Nations League is June 12-20. The Gold Cup this year is June 26-July 16.

So please spare me with the accusations of 'conspiracy' theories.

Honestly more Voyageurs should be upset about how much the CSA is not doing justice to the trophy that bears our name.

[RS]

Is there a reason the Vs Cup couldn't start in May and June and continue in August and/or September?

Shoehorning the final between the Nations League and Gold Cup is a non-starter, unless you want to penalize the clubs who have MNT players on it.

I see that apparently Concacaf has some sort of deadline by August. Is that true?

[RS]

Catching up on the thread and I wanted to post this. Atletico Ottawa says they made an error in the administrative process, leading to them not hosting the preliminary round match.

First off, that's a big admission on their part. But also... WTF?

 

[Watchmen]

12 minutes ago, narduch said:

You are arguing that the CSA had plenty of time to extend the Voyageurs Cup longer and didn't need to start in mid April.

I'm telling you they couldn't do that and still appease the 3 MLS clubs desire to wrap this up before the stupid Leagues Cup starts (July 21).

And the counter is, the US Open is apparently doing exactly what the Voyageurs Cup could have done.  And last time I checked, the US Open is almost always 2 MLS teams.

[Watchmen]

Just now, RS said:

Catching up on the thread and I wanted to post this. Atletico Ottawa says they made an error in the administrative process, leading to them not hosting the preliminary round match.

First off, that's a big admission on their part. But also... WTF?

 

Are you sure it wasn't MLS who did it?

[Ansem]

40 minutes ago, Kingston said:

I get that you, Ansem, and a couple of other posters on these boards really don't like the Canadian MLS teams.  I'm not sure why but you are entitled to your opinions.  That doesn't, however, mean that everything you don't like about Canadian soccer is some sort of conspiracy to favour the Canadian MLS teams.  In this case, for example, ending the V-Cup a month and a half before the Leagues Cup does not actually reveal some pro-MLS bias in the CSA even though I personally agree it is dumb for the CSA to start the tournament before the D3 leagues start play.

The CSA couldn't split the V Cup in half like the USSF did while juggling 10 times less clubs?

Please🙄

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ansem

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, RS said:

Is there a reason the Vs Cup couldn't start in May and June and continue in August and/or September?

Shoehorning the final between the Nations League and Gold Cup is a non-starter, unless you want to penalize the clubs who have MNT players on it.

I see that apparently Concacaf has some sort of deadline by August. Is that true?

The August thing doesn't make any sense.

The MLS reps won't be known until November. 

And we don't even know when the Caribbean and Central American tournaments are even taking place.

[RS]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Are you sure it wasn't MLS who did it?

I mean, we're blaming everything else on them so why not?

In seriousness though, it's Canada Soccer that should be taken to task for this. The individual teams/leagues are always going to look out for their own interests first — as they should — but the CSA is the governing body and should act like it.

After seeing the US Open Cup schedule, I'm convinced there's no real reason the CSA couldn't split the Vs Cup schedule in half and have it end after the Leagues Cup. The USSF is simply stronger-willed in this regard.

[narduch]

This is why it would be nice to have some real media.

I know the reasons why of course. Media has been decimated 

[Watchmen]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The CSA couldn't split the V Cup in half like the USSF did while juggling 10 times less clubs?

Please🙄

I 100% believe that the CSA is not organized enough to realize they could finish this in September. I do not know which CSA you have been watching over the years to think that they are competent. 

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

I mean, we're blaming everything else on them so why not?

In seriousness though, it's Canada Soccer that should be taken to task for this. The individual teams/leagues are always going to look out for their own interests first — as they should — but the CSA is the governing body and should act like it.

After seeing the US Open Cup schedule, I'm convinced there's no real reason the CSA couldn't split the Vs Cup schedule in half and have it end after the Leagues Cup. The USSF is simply stronger-willed in this regard.

I think that's where the criticism has been aimed at consistently

[Watchmen]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

The August thing doesn't make any sense.

The MLS reps won't be known until November. 

And we don't even know when the Caribbean and Central American tournaments are even taking place.

So again: all of this is indicating to me that it's the CSA who decided to cram it all in before mid-June. The MLS sides might have pushed back on having it in August, but nobody is at fault for not having it in June/July because of the Nations League/Gold Cup.

[narduch]

Just skimming TFC's schedule and I don't think they have any space in their schedule in September or October. They have mid week games and there are FIFA windows

[Watchmen]

24 minutes ago, narduch said:

Just skimming TFC's schedule and I don't think they have any space in their schedule in September or October. They have mid week games and there are FIFA windows

They have a break in the same windows the US Open Cup is scheduled for: Aug 23 and Sept 27.

[Kingston]

46 minutes ago, narduch said:

You are arguing that the CSA had plenty of time to extend the Voyageurs Cup longer and didn't need to start in mid April.

I'm telling you they couldn't do that and still appease the 3 MLS clubs desire to wrap this up before the stupid Leagues Cup starts (July 21).

First, they do have time.  (Even if they don't start in the spring and end in the fall, which would also work.)  Instead of starting in early April and ending in early June, they could start in mid-May and end in mid-July.  It's literally just shifting everything back by five or six weeks.

Second, why is this "appeasing" the MLS clubs?  You have a link where the CSA says they started the tournament early at the request of the MLS clubs?  You believe the CSA ended the V-Cup a full six weeks before the Leagues Cup just to be extra, extra sure there was no overlap between the V-Cup and the Leagues Cup?  The CSA is quite capable of making bad decisions without even considering the Canadian MLS teams.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

They have a break in the same windows the US Open Cup is scheduled for: Aug 23 and Sept 27.

I think they have a few dates open but it is still very congested.