Should the Canadian Premier League have a draft system like MLS in the future?

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Those who grew up with soccer and the top European leagues as their favourites from a young age will not be in favour of a draft.

Coming from a European upbringing and moving here in my mid twenties, I love the draft. 

I bloody hate no promotion/relegation and playoffs though. So your point likely rings true with non north Americans. 

Slightly exaggerated hatred. It's grown on me. Like mould.

Cap space and drafts can really go a long way to levelling the playing field and bring the game back to the fans who are growing tired of monopolies. It' one of the reasons I firmly believe (continued growth and investment) the mls will be one of the top 5 leagues in the next decade or so.

[toontownman]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

It also takes away the rights of young players and the incentive for teams to develop players (if we are crap, who cares, we will get the cream in the draft)

I agree with the rights to the young players. Especially if its just a draft and no academies at each club.That said they are entering into the draft fully aware of the system and potentially benefiting from that system where they wouldn't have normally. If they are good enough to play for their hometown club they should be already in their academy.

You might be right about the youth team incentive but I have always seen it as another way of providing pathways to players that might not be noticed. There is incentive for club's to have their own academies and make sure they get those local players first before the draft scoops them up. Which has led to a much weaker MLS draft the past few years. 

I think they can both play important roles. 

I also agree with rewarding club's with successful youth programs. Maybe a financial bonus would be merited. Id say extra tam but I guess that defeats the point lol. I hope there is a quota as discussed on here previously in the CPL for the amount of minutes playing younger players.

Only wrinkle with the youth side of things and homegrown rules certainly in the premiership is that the richest club's like Chelsea load their academy with the best youth talent because they throw their money around but rarely have players break through..ergo something like 40 players in loan this year. 

Manure are a fantastic example of how to do it and truly earned their stature in world football and all the wealth they have. It's all basically the same in the premiership now as Canadians in the mls. There are too many foreign players that are better to give youth a chance so they have to go down a league or two to earn a chance or go up with a promoted club where they have earned their first team spot. 

[ted]

17 hours ago, toontownman said:

Coming from a European upbringing and moving here in my mid twenties, I love the draft. 

Having been born and raised here, I despise the draft.

I may have mentioned once or twice the way it retards development, punishes youth clubs and drives players out of country to where they can choose who to contract with.

[Guest]

One other thing occurs to me: I doubt whether a draft is legal in anything other than a "single entity" franchise based system.

If you work at IBM they can tell you whether your job is in Vancouver or Halifax. But nobody can tell you that you can't work for IBM in Vancouver because the IT Industry had a draft and you have to work for HP in Halifax.

[toontownman]

Haven't the also already said the CPL won't be owning the players like MLS does. Or am I making that up? That would reinforce your point if so. 

It depends on the reasoning to hold a draft and who it benefits imo as to whether it can be an effective tool that benefits players and clubs. Excuse my ignorance on this but with the MLS draft the people eligible are either those tapped up by Generation Adidas that finish college early, invitees to the combine (invited by the MLS or clubs?) and club nominated players that aren't in college but are of the same age range, right? If you play for your hometown academy and want to play for that club or want the freedom of choice to go elsewhere why can't you do that? You can turn down a combine invite if you want can't you? Or are those young players already "owned" by the MLS?

If it is used to find players that fall through the cracks, scoops up the young players at universities or free agents not in Academies, I don't see how it could be anything other than a good thing. It is up to the player if they want to take part and going in they know

I guess the main point is whether it is worthwhile if the best young players are already playing for club academies and won't be in the draft. If you pick up one late bloomer or rough diamond, maybe? In most N. American sports the whole thing is probably more a spectacle than anything else. If your coaching/scouting system is doing their job they should find these talents regardless and not need the big rah-rah get together and pomp and circumstance of the picks. I enjoy the excitement of it I guess rather than its possible practicality.   

[Kurt-MTL]

I liked the comment from the previous page about drafts and academies not being mutually exclusive. Although I'd prefer clubs acquire the majority of their talent via traditional signings and home-grown/academy players, I think even if all of the league's clubs have academies up and running, we could still see a few unattached late bloomers coming out of CIS that could help round out some rosters or add depth to teams' reserves. Adding a draft to help some of the have-nots of the league (even if just a little) doesn't seem like such a  bad thing to me. 

[Kent]

What about something in between? Perhaps this is like that Canadian prospects basketball game (are those players that are high school kids trying to get NCAA scholarships?), but what about essentially having a prospects camp similar to the MLS combine but then instead of having a draft afterwards teams and players can meet and come to their own agreements? Would the anti-drafters be OK with something like that? It could reduce costs and make it easier to meet with a bunch of players and rate them against each other. Essentially a job fair.

[Zem]

18 minutes ago, Kent said:

What about something in between? Perhaps this is like that Canadian prospects basketball game (are those players that are high school kids trying to get NCAA scholarships?), but what about essentially having a prospects camp similar to the MLS combine but then instead of having a draft afterwards teams and players can meet and come to their own agreements? Would the anti-drafters be OK with something like that? It could reduce costs and make it easier to meet with a bunch of players and rate them against each other. Essentially a job fair.

Yes, that would be good. I think especially before launch some kind of combine for domestic and/or foreign players would be useful to help clubs make informed signings given that the quality of the league is essentially unknown and the players looking to play in the league are going to be from a wide variety of backgrounds, many of which might be obscure to teams' coaching staffs. But only as long as players have the freedom to entertain different offers and ultimately choose where they sign.

[mpg_29]

Wouldn't a draft still rely on scouting. How much of a budget will CPL teams have for scouting?

[-Hammer-]

I'm not a fan of a draft, because it deincentizes a team to start their own academy and generate talent that way and encourages someone else to do the heavy lifting for them. 

I'd rather teams be rewarded with good players because they spent the time an effort on them instead of because they couldn't manage their own house, or opted to tank. The only drafts I'd like to see are expansion drafts.

[dyslexic nam]

39 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

I'm not a fan of a draft, because it deincentizes a team to start their own academy and generate talent that way and encourages someone else to do the heavy lifting for them. 

I'd rather teams be rewarded with good players because they spent the time an effort on them instead of because they couldn't manage their own house, or opted to tank. The only drafts I'd like to see are expansion drafts.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Drafting (depth?) players at the uni level in no way prevents a team from grabbing and training guys at a young age.  Clubs would still have a very strong incentive to find talented kids and get them in a pro training stream as quickly as possible, even if just for their sell-on value which would have a much higher potential ceiling than someone they grabbed in the draft.

One thing I am not clear on would be how it could interact with the ongoing MLS draft.  Would CPL get the leftovers?  Would it draw from only Canadian universities? (And does MLS only apply to American universities?)

[toontownman]

Exactly. It's perspective. With academies present and encouraged the draft should be about finding players that fell through the cracks. 

[Blackdude]

13 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

One thing I am not clear on would be how it could interact with the ongoing MLS draft.  Would CPL get the leftovers?  Would it draw from only Canadian universities? (And does MLS only apply to American universities?)

What leftovers? IF there is a draft, (I say that with a big if), it would be players who would be considered domestic, so I would assume that some players who played here would be eligible, but someone who went on the NCAA route could go.

I think it's possible to get drafted from outside of an American University. If you played CIS, you would just need to register for the MLS SuperDraft. I don't think that a player has ever been drafted because they aren't on most team's radars. CFL drafts are a mix of NCAA and CIS prospects, but most of the players who are NFL bound are not drafted super early because they know that they might have to wait a while to get them.

[-Hammer-]

17 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Drafting (depth?) players at the uni level in no way prevents a team from grabbing and training guys at a young age.  Clubs would still have a very strong incentive to find talented kids and get them in a pro training stream as quickly as possible, even if just for their sell-on value which would have a much higher potential ceiling than someone they grabbed in the draft.

One thing I am not clear on would be how it could interact with the ongoing MLS draft.  Would CPL get the leftovers?  Would it draw from only Canadian universities? (And does MLS only apply to American universities?)

That's just it though. Why would I grab players at the uni level and pay to develop when I can pass that cost off to an Academy and just sweep in and take their rights come draft time? Also, how does that effect what the Academy is supposed to get for training him? They suddenly can't sell the player? Also, if you have player streams outside the draft, aren't you cheapening the draft itself?

The only reason I can see to have a draft is to sell an event to a television station, but I don't know anyone who follows or particularly cares about the MLS or CFL drafts, yet alone smaller leagues.

[Kent]

58 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

That's just it though. Why would I grab players at the uni level and pay to develop when I can pass that cost off to an Academy and just sweep in and take their rights come draft time? Also, how does that effect what the Academy is supposed to get for training him? They suddenly can't sell the player? Also, if you have player streams outside the draft, aren't you cheapening the draft itself?

The only reason I can see to have a draft is to sell an event to a television station, but I don't know anyone who follows or particularly cares about the MLS or CFL drafts, yet alone smaller leagues.

The academy can still serve a purpose even with a draft, just like it does in MLS. Jay Chapman for example was close to being in the draft, but TFC were able to successfully make a homegrown claim due to the time he had previously spent in the TFC academy. So TFC got a player that was pegged to be a relatively high pick (if I remember correctly) and not give up any draft picks. You can stake your claim to players through your academy while avoiding the risk of another team picking him in the lottery that is a draft.

Not to mention, if your academy is actually good at it's job, then hypothetically speaking that player that you draft out of college/university could have been better off if he had been in your academy system for years already, and in particular could be familiar with your team's playing style making it easier to plug them into the first team.

As for the "how does that effect what the Academy is supposed to get for training him" part. What dyslexic nam might have been referring to are the solidarity payments (is that the name?) where you are owed payments for each year you trained a player. So for example, if someone grows up playing for, say, Sigma FC from the time they are 10 until 13, then go to the TFC academy from 13 to 18, then they are bought by an overseas team, Sigma and TFC will both be due payments based on how long that player spent with each club/academy. If that player came to TFC at 17 instead of at 13, TFC would get less money.

[ted]

21 hours ago, toontownman said:

Exactly. It's perspective. With academies present and encouraged the draft should be about finding players that fell through the cracks. 

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. "Finding players" is called "scouting". A draft takes the cream of the college crop and makes them indentured servants. It has nothing to do with scouting talent.

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ted said:

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. "Finding players" is called "scouting". A draft takes the cream of the college crop and makes them indentured servants. It has nothing to do with scouting talent.

 

It is mind boggling to me that people don't get this.

And also that a draft is illegal for a non single entity league so this whole discussion is a waste of time anyway.

[A_Gagne]

I think you can still have a draft and not make players indentured servants if the clubs hold no rights to any player they opted not to sign. 

Consider this for a scenario: CanPL draft, mostly from CIS players, but any player under a certain age/not tied to a pro-club eligible; 3-4 rounds; clubs have until the first day of the season to sign the player, they then have 1st right to match any contract offered to the player by another CanPL club that season after which they hold no rights whatsoever WRT the player. Furthermore, players in CIS previously affiliated with a CanPL’s youth teams could opt to sign directly with said team and skip draft entirely (as is done in the MLS).

I agree with posters who point out the need for proper scouting networks and the negatives of the draft - ie creating artificial ownership of players by clubs, which actually leads to barriers for their career and gainful remuneration - but at the same time I also think a draft would help provide a clear pro-pathway for CIS players and help legitimize the CIS as a development pathway, and on balance I think that would be a net positive as long as MLS style perpetual player rights ownership is avoided. 

[ted]

5 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

... I also think a draft would help provide a clear pro-pathway for CIS players and help legitimize the CIS as a development pathway...

1. A clear pro-pathway is to play for a youth club, get scouted and sign for a pro  or semi-pro club.  Pretty freaking simple and clear.
    
2. Using a draft as a way to, "legitimize the CIS as a development pathway" is a circular argument. The CIS is a legitimate pathway because it has a draft. The Draft is necessary to provide a legitimate pathway. Totally circular because it has no point.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

I think you can still have a draft and not make players indentured servants if the clubs hold no rights to any player they opted not to sign.

Setting aside for a moment the fact that a draft would be illegal with the mooted CPL structure, why do you think that a draft is necessary? All the players who would be eligible for a draft would also be eligible to sign for any team they please. A draft would restrict them to one team.

So far as I can tell, the purpose of a draft is to foster competitive parity, but there are better ways to accomplish that, such as a salary cap.

[Tigers]

I may be way off, but don't players "declare" themselves eligible for the draft? Ie it's voluntary and they agree to take part and let their rights be acquired? 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Tigers said:

I may be way off, but don't players "declare" themselves eligible for the draft? Ie it's voluntary and they agree to take part and let their rights be acquired? 

I don't know, but:

Eric Lindros was coined “The Next One” by the time he was 17 years old, when he was tearing up the OHL with the Oshawa Generals. When the Quebec Nordiques called Lindros’ name with the first overall pick in 1991, he refused to don the jersey, and that started an infamous year-long standoff between the two sides.

Lindros was eventually dealt to Philadelphia for a king’s ransom, a package that included recent Flyers first round pick Peter Forsberg. Forsberg himself would have certainly made this list had he not later played for Philadelphia at the end of his career, disqualifying him.

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/top-15-nhl-players-who-never-played-for-the-team-that-drafted-them/