Striker Problem

[Soccerpro]

We've got Drew Beckie playing a lot of right back in Ottawa. FC Edmonton have Eddie Edwards too, don't they? There's two options, but we'd be reopening the discussion of whether NASL is a high enough level for call-ups.

As for the striker issue, it would be nice to see Akindele commit and help resolve it. Getting a guy like Cavellini (or REB) in the mix helps too. Occean can certainly contribute once his suspension is over, but I don't envision him going 90 minutes. I think subbing in a player like REB, who can run at tired defenders for a final 30 minutes, is an excellent strategy. Ricketts has the pace for a super-sub role as well, but I'm still not convinced by his finishing skills.

Eddie Edward by a country mile. I watched Hanson Boakai terrorize Drew Beckie in the voyageurs cup in Ottawa. Beckie doesn't have the required athleticism to be a national team full back. Eddie does.

[king1010]

That was the Panama game. We won that game.

 

you're right. I tried to eradicate my memory from that qualifying period.

 

though Edgar missed a similar chance at 1:58. less than a foot wide on the header

 

[Canadian Pride]

Of course those NASL players are good enough. Do not get fooled by the league.... Don't think for a second that guys like ouimette are better then Beckie, edward

[Dub Narcotic]

That's a good point. Ouimette, and a few of the other newly signed MLS homegrowns, are realistically USL players that have to be stashed on an MLS roster until the USL teams get going next year. 

[Ruffian]

Of course those NASL players are good enough. Do not get fooled by the league.... Don't think for a second that guys like ouimette are better then Beckie, edward

 

I do not claim to be able to decide if Beckie, Edward or Ouimette are better because I have not dedicated countless hours watching them live and countless hours watching them on video replay to decide this, but I assume the CSA and Floro have spent a lot of time and have decided to call Ouimette.

 

I really hope more players from NASL show enough to be called in future for Canada, but I have to assume that they are not at the level of Ouimette at the moment or they would have gotten the call.

[baulderdash77]

I think we're fooling ourselves if we thing that NASL isn't a high enough level for national team members. 

 

We've had guys playing B3 & B4, Scottish League 1 and NCAA playing for us at verious times.  Not to mention the famous A-League.  NASL is at least at that level.  We really have to get over our Eurosnob tendencies and start to recognize that domestic soccer has come a long long way in the last 10 years.

[Canadian Pride]

Trust me that ouimette has been getting called does not make him better then the guys who are not. I use to play against him. There are even guys at the university Canadian level that are more than comparable to guys like ouimette, tissot, etc..

[Lordsnooty]

I like Occean.  Good player.  NCAA to 2nd Bundesliga is not an easy feat.  Still he was out of the CanMNT for years, behind Gerba and Friend, totally ignored.  Nevertheless, when we needed him in 2012 he came right back and scored goals.  He had the balls to call out Stephen Hart for his poor decision making and laid back training sessions in the media after the 8-1.  

His club situation is unfortunate.  Occean should not have played hardball with the Impact this summer.  That would have been a great fit for him, and hopefully it still happens this offseason.  

Occean will be 33 in a few days.  It makes sense to turn to the future with younger players.  

(One wonders how his presence in Honduras would have changed things.  Same goes for Simpson and DeRo.  Our three most dangerous players.  Ugh.)  

 

 

Must admit that I was REALLY surprised to read these positive/sympathetic comments on Occean.  His strike rate for Canada was shite (6 goals, 29 appearances).  Had the balls to call out Hart AFTER the thrashing.  What's so brave about that?????   Perhaps if he'd gone to the media before that match he'd have testicles.   I went back on this board for some reaction to Occean's outburst, and this one really rung true for me:

 

irregardless if there is any validity in Occean's comments, he's the last guy who should be calling out Hart or anyone else.
remember that "back problem" that kept him out of the Panama away match? funny how quick that creeped up and how fast that "injury" cleared up when he arrived safely on German soil. hmmmm....makes ya wonder
gotta wonder who much respect he has among that "great group of players" who make up the MNT after that.
Hart isn't Murinho or Sir Alex but I'm pretty sure that physically, the players were prepared to perform much better than 8-1 on that hot day in San Pedro Sula. By not pinning any of the blame for that gutless, hapless performance on the players who started that game, Occean has zero crediblility in the eyes of anyone with half a brain. Hart has paid the price for that result. his team failed and now he's unemployed. hit and run artists like occean won't be held accountable for their failures in the Canadian shirt, unless the next coach decides he doesn't want guys of questionable character and debatable ability.
oh, and by the way, where were you Mr Occean on that fateful day in honduras? oh yeah, back in Germany because he took a silly and unneccessary red card in the home game vs. Cuba and rendered himself unavailable to play in what would have been the most important international game in his career.
Mtl Impact should be careful about associating themself with this guy. he might be able to score goals (if he's getting excellent service) but is this the type of guy you want in the locker room? definitely not the type of classy leader that a Pat Bernier is

 

It was Occean's attitude that I beleive was absolutely poisonous.   Time after time, from the red card, to the imaginary injuries, the pointing of fingers.  I've no idea if his poor attitude affected his club career, but wouldnt be surprised.  I'm glad we are done with him.  One last visual:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v33JJsb-o

 

This is the Canada-St Lucia in Beausejours.  Start 2:13.  Occean's second goal (one third of his total Canadian goal scoring production).  Played through by Hume, Occean insists on humiliating our opponent by dribbling into the back of the net, a goal that made it 5-nil Canada.  Hume congratulates Occean, and has a quite word to the goalscorer, something like "dont be a douche 'Livier, we're up 5 nil on their ground" Occean then tells Hume to fuck off, and Hume then goes back to ask why .  Embarrasing.  Occean was poison.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Occean is too old and isn't that good. We shouldn't be looking at him anymore. He's in the same mold as Jackson, Haber. Below-average strikers who can't make it at the top level. If Canada wants to be competitive in CONCACAF we need to look at our younger players who are probably as good as those guys I mentioned above, Cavallini, Hamilont, AJH, Larin all have higher ceilings than any of these guys. Ricketts and Hume are slight exceptions. Both haven't succeeded at the top level, but Ricketts under Floro has improved massively and Hume was actually a good player in England.

[king1010]

Occean is too old and isn't that good. We shouldn't be looking at him anymore. He's in the same mold as Jackson, Haber. Below-average strikers who can't make it at the top level. If Canada wants to be competitive in CONCACAF we need to look at our younger players who are probably as good as those guys I mentioned above, Cavallini, Hamilont, AJH, Larin all have higher ceilings than any of these guys. Ricketts and Hume are slight exceptions. Both haven't succeeded at the top level, but Ricketts under Floro has improved massively and Hume was actually a good player in England.

 

you're contradicting yourself here. Occean was top leading scorer in B-2. Jackson was a leading team scorer league 2, 1, and championship. They both made it at somewhat top level.

 

Having said that I think were done with Ocean, I'd keep simeon in the loop as he is still right side of 30. I agree keep ricketts in the loop. But your insistance on keeping Hume is confusing me. He's had a rough go the past couple years and dropped out of the championship years ago. And even recently couldn't hack it at League 1. He's currently playing in the retirement league in India (literally retirement league, the coaches double as players. ie. materazzi, del piero, david james, pires, luis garcia. elano, trezeguet, ljundberg,capdavilla)

[Ruffian]

I still think Simeon Jackson is our best striker. I think after playing a lot more at Coventry City he will be back on Floro's radar. I think he may have missed recent calls ups because he was not playing a lot and also maybe he was more concerned about finding a steady job somewhere.

[Barthez-Battalion]

you're contradicting yourself here. Occean was top leading scorer in B-2. Jackson was a leading team scorer league 2, 1, and championship. They both made it at somewhat top level.

 

Having said that I think were done with Ocean, I'd keep simeon in the loop as he is still right side of 30. I agree keep ricketts in the loop. But your insistance on keeping Hume is confusing me. He's had a rough go the past couple years and dropped out of the championship years ago. And even recently couldn't hack it at League 1. He's currently playing in the retirement league in India (literally retirement league, the coaches double as players. ie. materazzi, del piero, david james, pires, luis garcia. elano, trezeguet, ljundberg,capdavilla)

I should have mentioned that I think Hume is done.

[The Ref]

Occean is too old and isn't that good. We shouldn't be looking at him anymore. He's in the same mold as Jackson, Haber. Below-average strikers who can't make it at the top level. If Canada wants to be competitive in CONCACAF we need to look at our younger players who are probably as good as those guys I mentioned above, Cavallini, Hamilont, AJH, Larin all have higher ceilings than any of these guys. Ricketts and Hume are slight exceptions. Both haven't succeeded at the top level, but Ricketts under Floro has improved massively and Hume was actually a good player in England.

I like the idea of looking at our younger strikers.  Rehashing players who have not led us anywhere is going into a dead end road.

[ANC]

Please no OO back in a Canada Shirt. Even to an untrained eye, he lacks any ability to play even at a Concacaf level.

 

Olivier from all accounts was never a favorite with team mates and was a complete disruption to the team. Not to mention

his strike rate or lack of it.

 

Hart unfortunately will always be judged on one disaster of a game. Up to that point the team only gave up 3 goals. In my opinion Canada played some very good football under Hart. Most fans enjoyed the games at GC, Ukraine, Ecuador, Greece, Belarus, Cyprus  the list goes on. The WC run could have entered the Hex, if we had done the business versus Honduras at Home.

Hart could hardly be blamed for the number of misses by players. I still say Canada has never really replaced Gerba.

Losing, Gerba, Simpson and deRosario for the crucial qualifications was a major lost. Now its time to rebuild. Benito is yet to convince, he especially has not shown he can solve the lack of goal scoring that has always been an issue. With my limited knowledge no coach can do that, unless its a complete focus on set plays. Canada needs a top class striker, or goal scorer. remember Ricketts two chances in the opening minutes versus Honduras. 

get Hoilette on board and bring in Luca C.

[Lordsnooty]

Well said.

[Lordsnooty]

and welcome to the Voyageurs.......

[king1010]

Please no OO back in a Canada Shirt. Even to an untrained eye, he lacks any ability to play even at a Concacaf level.

 

Olivier from all accounts was never a favorite with team mates and was a complete disruption to the team. Not to mention

his strike rate or lack of it.

 

Hart unfortunately will always be judged on one disaster of a game. Up to that point the team only gave up 3 goals. In my opinion Canada played some very good football under Hart. Most fans enjoyed the games at GC, Ukraine, Ecuador, Greece, Belarus, Cyprus  the list goes on. The WC run could have entered the Hex, if we had done the business versus Honduras at Home.

Hart could hardly be blamed for the number of misses by players. I still say Canada has never really replaced Gerba.

Losing, Gerba, Simpson and deRosario for the crucial qualifications was a major lost. Now its time to rebuild. Benito is yet to convince, he especially has not shown he can solve the lack of goal scoring that has always been an issue. With my limited knowledge no coach can do that, unless its a complete focus on set plays. Canada needs a top class striker, or goal scorer. remember Ricketts two chances in the opening minutes versus Honduras. 

get Hoilette on board and bring in Luca C.

 

He's got me believin. The team looks very organized with actrual structure under him. He also adapts to the opponent. More attacking when we should carry the play, more tactical and applyng pressure and counters when we face a much stronger opponent. The set pieces have looked good too 

[Obinna]

Please no OO back in a Canada Shirt. Even to an untrained eye, he lacks any ability to play even at a Concacaf level.

 

 

OO is definitely able to play in Concacaf level. Look at his scoring records at the clubs like Odds Grenland, Lilliestrom, Gruether Furth etc. When he wasn't scoring for us he was certainly not dead weight. He gave us good hold up play and was pretty mobile. Care to clarify further as to why you do not rate him?

[The Ref]

Now its time to rebuild. Benito is yet to convince, he especially has not shown he can solve the lack of goal scoring that has always been an issue. With my limited knowledge no coach can do that, unless its a complete focus on set plays. Canada needs a top class striker.

Couldn't agree more with those statements.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Well we don't have any top-class strikers. Haber, Jackson are pretty poor for Canada and are barely decent in League One. Hamilton, Larin, and others like them can be good, but they are all really young and can't be relied to shoulder the attack on their own. I love Ricketts, and has been a great servant, but he's not going to bang them in, and guys like Cavallini haven't exactly shown they are committed. We run a 4-1-4-1, which is a pretty uninspired. Either we keep a 1 striker formation and go 4-2-3-1, which means we need an AM, and we don't really have anyone "proven" to take that place. Bekker? Doesn't play AM for TFC. Aleman? I'm pretty sure he disappeared in Costa Rica. Froese? Carreiro? Bustos? Needs to actually start playing and get more experience. We can go two strikers, but Floro doesn't seem to like it. Either way our attack isn't going to be better, at least not right now. We just don't have any of the pieces ready yet. Plus Floro's choice of formation doesn't make attacking that big of focal point.

[Grizzly]

Please no OO back in a Canada Shirt. Even to an untrained eye, he lacks any ability to play even at a Concacaf level.

 

Olivier from all accounts was never a favorite with team mates and was a complete disruption to the team. Not to mention

his strike rate or lack of it.

 

Hart unfortunately will always be judged on one disaster of a game. Up to that point the team only gave up 3 goals. In my opinion Canada played some very good football under Hart. Most fans enjoyed the games at GC, Ukraine, Ecuador, Greece, Belarus, Cyprus  the list goes on. The WC run could have entered the Hex, if we had done the business versus Honduras at Home.

Hart could hardly be blamed for the number of misses by players. I still say Canada has never really replaced Gerba.

Losing, Gerba, Simpson and deRosario for the crucial qualifications was a major lost. Now its time to rebuild. Benito is yet to convince, he especially has not shown he can solve the lack of goal scoring that has always been an issue. With my limited knowledge no coach can do that, unless its a complete focus on set plays. Canada needs a top class striker, or goal scorer. remember Ricketts two chances in the opening minutes versus Honduras. 

get Hoilette on board and bring in Luca C.

 

Hart should be judged on how poorly we played under him and how poor the results were not just in the one game but throughout his tenure. I posted here for years that he was an amateur coach who did not get the best out of his players, did not understand how to play them properly, had poor tactical understand and that we would not qualify under him. Unfortunately he proved me right game after game and finally in WCQ. We managed a few ties against decent teams among a lot of losses in meaningless friendlies while struggling with minnows in the first round of qualifying. What happened in WCQ under him was so predictable. Finally after 3 successive amateur coaching disasters in Yallop, Mitchell and Hart we have a high level professional coach who has the team playing like a team with a solid tactical plan and you are lamenting the days when we had unqualified amateur coaches? Are you the ghost of CSA failure past?

 

As for Occean he has scored enough goals at high enough levels to show that he can be an effective striker. He hasn't played a lot recently and is getting older so whether he still has it is a question mark. However, when you have a coach like Hart who doesn't understand how to use his strikers or attacking midfielders properly and thinks keeping possession by passing the ball in the back all the time is an effective strategy none of the strikers are going to do well under him.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Hart should be judged on how poorly we played under him and how poor the results were not just in the one game but throughout his tenure. I posted here for years that he was an amateur coach who did not get the best out of his players, did not understand how to play them properly, had poor tactical understand and that we would not qualify under him. Unfortunately he proved me right game after game and finally in WCQ. We managed a few ties against decent teams among a lot of losses in meaningless friendlies while struggling with minnows in the first round of qualifying. What happened in WCQ under him was so predictable. Finally after 3 successive amateur coaching disasters in Yallop, Mitchell and Hart we have a high level professional coach who has the team playing like a team with a solid tactical plan and you are lamenting the days when we had unqualified amateur coaches? Are you the ghost of CSA failure past?

 

As for Occean he has scored enough goals at high enough levels to show that he can be an effective striker. He hasn't played a lot recently and is getting older so whether he still has it is a question mark. However, when you have a coach like Hart who doesn't understand how to use his strikers or attacking midfielders properly and thinks keeping possession by passing the ball in the back all the time is an effective strategy none of the strikers are going to do well under him.

Just because a striker is good at club level does not mean it will translate to the National Team. Postiga is garbage for most of hus clubs but his strike rate his pretty good for Portugal. The best foreign striker in Bundesliga history, Claudio Pizarro is incredible in Germany, but has been utter crap for the Peruvian national team his entire career/ It very simply could be a case that Occean doesn't care. Good riddance anyhow. He isn't even playing right now.

[canucklefan]

Hart should be judged on how poorly we played under him and how poor the results were not just in the one game but throughout his tenure. I posted here for years that he was an amateur coach who did not get the best out of his players, did not understand how to play them properly, had poor tactical understand and that we would not qualify under him. Unfortunately he proved me right game after game and finally in WCQ. We managed a few ties against decent teams among a lot of losses in meaningless friendlies while struggling with minnows in the first round of qualifying. What happened in WCQ under him was so predictable. Finally after 3 successive amateur coaching disasters in Yallop, Mitchell and Hart we have a high level professional coach who has the team playing like a team with a solid tactical plan and you are lamenting the days when we had unqualified amateur coaches? Are you the ghost of CSA failure past?

 

As for Occean he has scored enough goals at high enough levels to show that he can be an effective striker. He hasn't played a lot recently and is getting older so whether he still has it is a question mark. However, when you have a coach like Hart who doesn't understand how to use his strikers or attacking midfielders properly and thinks keeping possession by passing the ball in the back all the time is an effective strategy none of the strikers are going to do well under him.

It's true that he never coached at professional level but Hart was definitely an upgrade to Mitchel or Miller. Hart exceeded my expectations for the last WCQ campaign. If Floro was in charge back then, I'm not sure if the MNT would have made it to Hex.

 

As for the next WCQ, I predict we will be eliminated again in the third round. If Floro manage to make it to the Hex, he will exceed my expectations, it would be fantastic but that remains to be seen. I get the feeling people believe we didn't get to the Hex last WCQ only because of Hart. There's the talent pool too to be considered and if people think we have some real chance to qualify to Russia, now that we have a "real coach", you will be disappointed.

 

Lastly, I'd like the CSA give Floro the chance to coach the MNT for 2022 WCQ too as I believe he will have more chance to take us to the WC than any other coach. In 8 years, maybe.

[BearcatSA]

Right now, Floro's getting the most out of the players he has available with the tactics he's using.  This is a defence first team that will get goals from set play service or off the counter.  I think we have a good chance of getting a result in Panama to end the year.  Hopefully we'll get another friendly at home against a strong defensive side to see how we do against such a side.  Then the rubber hits the road at the Gold Cup and we'll see how that turns out.

 

I'm curious to see how his squad selection continues into the new year.

[Addona]

It's true that he never coached at professional level but Hart was definitely an upgrade to Mitchel or Miller. Hart exceeded my expectations for the last WCQ campaign. If Floro was in charge back then, I'm not sure if the MNT would have made it to Hex.

 

As for the next WCQ, I predict we will be eliminated again in the third round. If Floro manage to make it to the Hex, he will exceed my expectations, it would be fantastic but that remains to be seen. I get the feeling people believe we didn't get to the Hex last WCQ only because of Hart. There's the talent pool too to be considered and if people think we have some real chance to qualify to Russia, now that we have a "real coach", you will be disappointed.

 

Lastly, I'd like the CSA give Floro the chance to coach the MNT for 2022 WCQ too as I believe he will have more chance to take us to the WC than any other coach. In 8 years, maybe.

 

I don't agree with every single thing you say, but one thing I am 100% in agreement with is that I'd like to see Floro get "2 kicks at that can" ... if they don't qualify for 2018 but do reasonably (make the HEX, say) then I hope he gets a shot to qualify for 2022.  Unfortunately, I don't think this is very likely.