Lordsnooty Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The aim should be both getting to the WC and making improvements that will help us in the future. Hart gave us neither while Floro gives us a better chance at qualifying but if we don't is giving us a lot of things that will help us in the future. Rather than stating our aims, which I think are quite clear, perhaps we should start stating our expectations. That way if Floro does not deliver we can crucify him as vehemently as we do Hart. Hindsight is incredibly clear. I pity Hart, and wish he had been starting on the pitch that horrid day in Honduras to assure just a draw. But Hart never had a prayer, because (as stated above) Hart did not make us qualify AND he apparently gave us nothing to improve in the future (how does one gauge that?) Yet for Floro he doesnt have to help us qualify, but he will definitely help us improve (again, as stated above). Floro cant really lose in that scenario, can he? I dont think anyone on this forum would want Hart to replace Floro. Anything but. I just want to make sure our 'revisionist history' judges all fairly once we look at this down the road. So, lets state for the record now where we must finish in both the WC and Gold Cup in order to satisfy.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Rather than stating our aims, which I think are quite clear, perhaps we should start stating our expectations. That way if Floro does not deliver we can crucify him as vehemently as we do Hart. Hindsight is incredibly clear. I pity Hart, and wish he had been starting on the pitch that horrid day in Honduras to assure just a draw. But Hart never had a prayer, because (as stated above) Hart did not make us qualify AND he apparently gave us nothing to improve in the future (how does one gauge that?) Yet for Floro he doesnt have to help us qualify, but he will definitely help us improve (again, as stated above). Floro cant really lose in that scenario, can he? I dont think anyone on this forum would want Hart to replace Floro. Anything but. I just want to make sure our 'revisionist history' judges all fairly once we look at this down the road. So, lets state for the record now where we must finish in both the WC and Gold Cup in order to satisfy.......... I think the big thing is that over the last decade, Canada, despite having "The best midifield in CONCACAF" and a number of good players at the back and in front, were still pretty poor and underachieved a lot. I haven't been a soccer fan for very long, so I don't know what it was like in the mid 2000s but from journos I talk to and ask questions they all tell me that the coaches didn't really inspire the players or have them playing good soccer. From what I've seen personally, Hart got us wins and almost got us to the Hex. His downfall was both Honduras games. The fact the team lost in such a horrible fashion is the biggest mark against him. Did Canada play "nice?" Not really. But it worked so people didn't ask questions. When Canada was booted out of qualifying, then people started ragging on Hart's style. The reason Floro is looked on so favourable now, and rightfully so is that he's revamping the system. I could be wrong but I don't think any of the coaches previously did that. Floro is revamping the system and it is working, the players seem to like it too. Also one thing is all the good news that is coming through at the moment for Canadian soccer. USL teams for the MLS clubs? More development for players. Talent U20 side? Yep. Just think of how Floro could use Marco Bustos and Cyle Larin and Mark Anthony-Kaye. Everything is good goody with Canada right now, and since Floro is the man in charge, the opinion of him will be positive, even if perhaps he has nothing to do with what Canadian soccer is going through right now. I personally think he is doing good work, and think that the program is finally going in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Can't argue too much with that... I've been watching the national team since 2000 (intensely since 2003) and I also agree that this is the first time we look structured. The talent has always been mediocre, but for once we look poised to overachieve and not underachieve. Plus, the talent in the pipeline looks more and more promising with every cycle. I think we have a realistic shot at the Hex for WCQ 2018 - and an outsiders chance at qualification for Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Rather than stating our aims, which I think are quite clear, perhaps we should start stating our expectations. That way if Floro does not deliver we can crucify him as vehemently as we do Hart. Hindsight is incredibly clear. I pity Hart, and wish he had been starting on the pitch that horrid day in Honduras to assure just a draw. But Hart never had a prayer, because (as stated above) Hart did not make us qualify AND he apparently gave us nothing to improve in the future (how does one gauge that?) Yet for Floro he doesnt have to help us qualify, but he will definitely help us improve (again, as stated above). Floro cant really lose in that scenario, can he? I dont think anyone on this forum would want Hart to replace Floro. Anything but. I just want to make sure our 'revisionist history' judges all fairly once we look at this down the road. So, lets state for the record now where we must finish in both the WC and Gold Cup in order to satisfy.......... I think the big thing is that over the last decade, Canada, despite having "The best midifield in CONCACAF" and a number of good players at the back and in front, were still pretty poor and underachieved a lot. I haven't been a soccer fan for very long, so I don't know what it was like in the mid 2000s but from journos I talk to and ask questions they all tell me that the coaches didn't really inspire the players or have them playing good soccer. From what I've seen personally, Hart got us wins and almost got us to the Hex. His downfall was both Honduras games. The fact the team lost in such a horrible fashion is the biggest mark against him. Did Canada play "nice?" Not really. But it worked so people didn't ask questions. When Canada was booted out of qualifying, then people started ragging on Hart's style. The reason Floro is looked on so favourable now, and rightfully so is that he's revamping the system. I could be wrong but I don't think any of the coaches previously did that. Floro is revamping the system and it is working, the players seem to like it too. Also one thing is all the good news that is coming through at the moment for Canadian soccer. USL teams for the MLS clubs? More development for players. Talent U20 side? Yep. Just think of how Floro could use Marco Bustos and Cyle Larin and Mark Anthony-Kaye. Everything is good goody with Canada right now, and since Floro is the man in charge, the opinion of him will be positive, even if perhaps he has nothing to do with what Canadian soccer is going through right now. I personally think he is doing good work, and think that the program is finally going in the right direction. This is not hindsight, I and others here as well have been critical of Hart since his early days of taking over the program and I predicted we would not advance under him because of the poor way we played under him. If you doubt this you are welcome to go back and look at my posts during Harts reign. It wasn't just the Honduran games that were poor (actually the home game against Honduras was our best game of WCQ even though we could not score). Just sticking to WCQ the poor games were both games against Cuba, the two away games against Honduras and Panama and the 0-0 ties against Puerto Rico and St-Kitts. And I don't think the other games were that strong either other than the 7-0 win against St-Lucia. Yes I want to see results but I am also realistic about the talent we have available. What I want to see from a coach is a solid tactical formation that is effective against the opponent we are playing, not getting outcoached by the opposing coach, players giving 100% and leaving it all on the pitch, players overachieving not underachieving, players having the right mental attitude that they can face adversity and play in intimidating stadiums, players getting training that help develop their skill and understanding of the game. I did not see any of that under Hart, it was the same old disorganized team underachieving, undisciplined and unmotivated that I have watched for the last decade. If I see the team playing hard and playing well I can accept it if we get beat by better opponents but we should not be continually getting our ass kicked by teams we are equal to and to be constantly struggling against weaker teams. Results are important and coaches are ultimately judged on them but unlike Hart I think Floro is giving a lot to the team that will benefit us long term even if we do not qualify and I think he will give us the maximum opportunity to qualify with the limited talent we do have on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Yes I want to see results but I am also realistic about the talent we have available. What I want to see from a coach is a solid tactical formation that is effective against the opponent we are playing, not getting outcoached by the opposing coach, players giving 100% and leaving it all on the pitch, players overachieving not underachieving, players having the right mental attitude that they can face adversity and play in intimidating stadiums, players getting training that help develop their skill and understanding of the game. I did not see any of that under Hart, it was the same old disorganized team underachieving, undisciplined and unmotivated that I have watched for the last decade. If I see the team playing hard and playing well I can accept it if we get beat by better opponents but we should not be continually getting our ass kicked by teams we are equal to and to be constantly struggling against weaker teams. Results are important and coaches are ultimately judged on them but unlike Hart I think Floro is giving a lot to the team that will benefit us long term even if we do not qualify and I think he will give us the maximum opportunity to qualify with the limited talent we do have on our team. As I said earlier, Floro's the right guy for this program at the right time. He's building a workmanlike, defensively disciplined side that should be hard to break down. This should be a competitive team based on the style of play that we are using, even if we feature guys from FC Unattached in the starting eleven. The only way we'll find out how this team will handle challenging situations is when those situations do arise, such as playing a bunkering Central American road team or an underdog at the Gold Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic78 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If we go into WCQ with Ricketts as the guy up top, we don't stand a chance. who amongst currently capped players is a better option upfront? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If we go into WCQ with Ricketts as the guy up top, we don't stand a chance. who amongst currently capped players is a better option upfront? Cavallini and Hamilton. Both are unproven at international level. Larin is probably the best option. At least we know what we're getting with Ricketts. Even if it isn't much. Larin will probably be our crux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I am fired up for Hamilton. I think he will go on to have a great career - but honestly I don't understand how anyone could say he is a better option than Ricketts at the moment. What has he done? Scored in a friendly against Tottenham, scored 5 goals in USL-Pro and zero in Portugal division 2. By contrast, Ricketts came off a 7 or 8 goal season at a level that's probably similar to Portugal division 2, which earned him a contract with a decent team in Israel. He hasn't scored yet but I am willing to bet he'll score more goals than Hamilton will in Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I am fired up for Hamilton. I think he will go on to have a great career - but honestly I don't understand how anyone could say he is a better option than Ricketts at the moment. What has he done? Scored in a friendly against Tottenham, scored 5 goals in USL-Pro and zero in Portugal division 2. By contrast, Ricketts came off a 7 or 8 goal season at a level that's probably similar to Portugal division 2, which earned him a contract with a decent team in Israel. He hasn't scored yet but I am willing to bet he'll score more goals than Hamilton will in Portugal. Well Ricketts plays every game, Hamilton doesn't. Im betting that if a chance falls to Hamilton similar to the one's Ricketts made a joke out of in Honduras 2012 or the last minute house league slice he took in Panama last week, Hamilton will bury it. If Hamilton was playing Ricketts minutes he'd be scoring too. You can't score much from the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well Ricketts plays every game, Hamilton doesn't. Im betting that if a chance falls to Hamilton similar to the one's Ricketts made a joke out of in Honduras 2012 or the last minute house league slice he took in Panama last week, Hamilton will bury it. If Hamilton was playing Ricketts minutes he'd be scoring too. You can't score much from the bench. Hamilton is a pure striker, and goal scorer...he's scored goals on every level that he has played on. From my observations I think Tosaint would be better suited on the wings, or as a substitute striker to run down the defence. He lacks the skill and knowledge of a true striker or center forward, and I think Jayham just needs that opportunity. Fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hamilton will be too raw for this cycle I'm afraid. But hopefully we can blow out a minnow in Leg 1 of the WCQ in June so we can give him a start at home to see how he responds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If Hamilton is that good, why can't he play in Portugal at a bad club? I think that a lot of you have seen that Hamilton could score in the lowly USL PRO and in a friendly against a team still in preseason form. Sure he has scored for our U17 and U20 programs, but rare are those players able to play consistently at the senior level after the U20s. Julian and Atiba are the closest to have done something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If Hamilton is that good, why can't he play in Portugal at a bad club? I think that a lot of you have seen that Hamilton could score in the lowly USL PRO and in a friendly against a team still in preseason form. Sure he has scored for our U17 and U20 programs, but rare are those players able to play consistently at the senior level after the U20s. Julian and Atiba are the closest to have done something like that. probably a bit of culture shock. at least people spoke english in wilmington. Portugal might as well be another planet for Hamilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If Hamilton is that good, why can't he play in Portugal at a bad club? I think that a lot of you have seen that Hamilton could score in the lowly USL PRO and in a friendly against a team still in preseason form. Sure he has scored for our U17 and U20 programs, but rare are those players able to play consistently at the senior level after the U20s. Julian and Atiba are the closest to have done something like that. They are in a relegation battle and the new coach isn't a fan of him. He even stripped him of the #10 shirt. I'm guessing this guy sees a Canadian, and is like "lol no" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (shrugs) as has been previously mentioned by myself and in other threads, the fans didn't think too highly of his performances either, supposedly. I didn't actually see the forum posts myself, so I'm going by a little bit of hearsay on this one. The only time I actually saw Hamilton and liked what I saw was in the Canadian youth system...and quite frankly even then, if you rewatch the game, there are times that he dawdles offside and executes poor holdup play...lucky for him as always we had a bit of a great midfield feeding him in that youth setup. I'm no GREAT judge of talent though, from my limited experience watching Huitema I thought the kid was going to be a machine... I haven't seen Larin play outside of his VERY brief CMNT appearances, but I'm starting to think Larin is our one for the future. Be nice to see an NCAA path really pan out for one of our guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (shrugs) as has been previously mentioned by myself and in other threads, the fans didn't think too highly of his performances either, supposedly. I didn't actually see the forum posts myself, so I'm going by a little bit of hearsay on this one. The only time I actually saw Hamilton and liked what I saw was in the Canadian youth system...and quite frankly even then, if you rewatch the game, there are times that he dawdles offside and executes poor holdup play...lucky for him as always we had a bit of a great midfield feeding him in that youth setup. I'm no GREAT judge of talent though, from my limited experience watching Huitema I thought the kid was going to be a machine... I haven't seen Larin play outside of his VERY brief CMNT appearances, but I'm starting to think Larin is our one for the future. Be nice to see an NCAA path really pan out for one of our guys... Larin is our future. He's looked good for the NT in his brief appearances and Floro thinks the world of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic78 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I thought Larin looked good in his few minutes vs. COL. So when does he take over? will he be the guy next spring/summer? I'd like to say Cavallini will be there but until he shows i'm not counting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Let's get Radz out of retirement. I bet he could get an NCAA scholarship and score 9 goals to make him a shoe-in for our MNT starting striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addona Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Let's get Radz out of retirement. I bet he could get an NCAA scholarship and score 9 goals to make him a shoe-in for our MNT starting striker. Hmmm ... my sarcasm-o-meter is going off like gangbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If Hamilton was playing Ricketts minutes he'd be scoring too. You can't score much from the bench. He is a bench guy on a lower level team than Hapoel Hafia. That should tell us all we need to know. Common sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 They are in a relegation battle and the new coach isn't a fan of him. He even stripped him of the #10 shirt. I'm guessing this guy sees a Canadian, and is like "lol no" Maybe he sees a guy who just hasn't earned a starting spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Don't know where else to put this, but on the latest Two Solitudes, Duane kind talked about Gerba and how he moved clubs a lot, but wouldn't say why but hinted it was a personal issue. Was he a drug addict or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 That would be quite the conclusion to jump to. Let's tweet that, and see how long it takes for Gerba to get pissed off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Don't know where else to put this, but on the latest Two Solitudes, Duane kind talked about Gerba and how he moved clubs a lot, but wouldn't say why but hinted it was a personal issue. Was he a drug addict or something? Well that escalated quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 braaaaaaappp (huffs on crack pipe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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