Cdn Champ Second Leg - Tor vs Van

[nfitz]

Yes, but it's not MLS play. It's CONCACAF play, following CONCACAF and FIFA rules on the completion of games.

Perhaps because it's just interesting to note the difference. I appreciate that hc1 pointed it out.

[jonovision]

Yes, but it's not MLS play. It's CONCACAF play, following CONCACAF and FIFA rules on the completion of games.

This is a misconception. It follows the rules established by the CSA for the Canadian Championship. FIFA/CONCACAF laws give home FAs jurisdiction to establish their own rules for their own competitions regarding abandonments.

But it is the rule and in the end, unfair or not, the rules were followed.

[TFCRegina]

This is a misconception. It follows the rules established by the CSA for the Canadian Championship. FIFA/CONCACAF laws give home FAs jurisdiction to establish their own rules for their own competitions regarding abandonments.

But it is the rule and in the end, unfair or not, the rules were followed.

Yet the Canadian Championship rule is in line with both of those organizations...just saying.

[afun]

I can recall something similar happened in the 1988 Stanley Cup Finals. IIRC Edmonton was leading the series 3-0 but the fourth game was tied in Boston in the 2nd period when the power in the building went off. They had to abandon the game but they replayed the whole game(rather than from the moment the game was halted in the second) - and they did it in Edmonton (basically taking place on the night that would have been game five). Edmonton won the game and the Cup, with the weird advantage of having 3 of the 4 games played in Edmonton.

So as crazy as it seems, it appears the "replay the whole game & cancel out the first one" does have a precedent in North American sport, and North American championships at that. Still doesn't make much sense to me, but there you are.

It is 100% different if one team has a lead - that game was tied 3-3 when the lights went out. I have no evidence but I would suspect the situation would have been different if one team was leading.

My personal opinion - the rules should be revised to just play the remainder of the game at a date agreed upon. It makes no sense what minute the game was at before it got canceled. If a team is up 5-0 after 10 minutes those 10 minutes should not be discarded. That rule is absurd.

[Unnamed Trialist]

This is a misconception. It follows the rules established by the CSA for the Canadian Championship. FIFA/CONCACAF laws give home FAs jurisdiction to establish their own rules for their own competitions regarding abandonments.

But it is the rule and in the end, unfair or not, the rules were followed.

Thanks for that. These are not FIFA rules as you say, and if you go to many major leagues and national cups you will find that games are restarted from the moment they are called off. CSA are the mavericks here, but that is no excuse.

Anyways, the MLS rule is pretty dumb too, as is MLS in general. I mean, planning an MLS match at virtually the same time the Champions League final is on, from what I have heard Caps fans have been calling in for the last couple of days dumbfounded by the starting time of the Red Bulls match. The players must be irritated by that too, it shows how hopeless MLS really is, it is not just a CSA thing.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm guessing/hoping this has been cleared by CONCACAF? I thought each country had to have their representative(s) decided by a certain date?

Winner of the V-Cup plays Real Esteli of Nicaragua, last week of July and first of August. They did the draw before the winners were decided here and in Central America, on the 18th, so it is not a problem. I think the first leg could be in Canada.

Last weekend they had an info and prep session about the competition with all national champions, in Miami I think I read, doubt any Canadians were there.

Late July the ConcaChampions begins.

If the Canadian champ beats Real Esteli, we are in the group with Pumas, Tauro of Panama, and the round between Dallas and Alianza of El Salvador.

[loyola]

Thanks for that. These are not FIFA rules as you say, and if you go to many major leagues and national cups you will find that games are restarted from the moment they are called off. CSA are the mavericks here, but that is no excuse.

Anyways, the MLS rule is pretty dumb too, as is MLS in general. I mean, planning an MLS match at virtually the same time the Champions League final is on, from what I have heard Caps fans have been calling in for the last couple of days dumbfounded by the starting time of the Red Bulls match. The players must be irritated by that too, it shows how hopeless MLS really is, it is not just a CSA thing.

FIFA rules in the case of a referee technical error were replay the whole game despite a team winning. The 2005 Uzbekistan-Bahrain WCQ is an example of that:

Uzbekistan was leading 1-0 at the time of the error.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/germany2006/news/newsid=27212.html

I guess it's the same in the case of game abandonned due to the weather.

[DJT]

It is 100% different if one team has a lead - that game was tied 3-3 when the lights went out. I have no evidence but I would suspect the situation would have been different if one team was leading.

Well, we need not look to such a peculiar scenario as that given by Gian-Luca to find precedents of restarting abandoned games from scratch in North American sports, because it is a standard thing in baseball. If a game is called before 4.5-5.0 innings have been played, then the whole thing is started over at 0-0 at a later date, even if one team was leading 10-0 or whatever (though individual statistics from the abandoned game might be maintained).

But I do agree that the rule should be revised.

[Gian-Luca]

It is 100% different if one team has a lead - that game was tied 3-3 when the lights went out. I have no evidence but I would suspect the situation would have been different if one team was leading.

I suspect it wouldn't have made a difference. They could have started the next game at 3-3 late in the 2nd period and it wouldn't have hurt either team, but they still chose not to do so, I'm guessing because the NHL rules must have stated that the whole game had to be replayed. Boston got the unlucky result (ie. screwed) of having to play another game in Edmonton when they were already 3 games down.

[paul-collins]

I don't see how people can clamour for changing the rule in the name of fairness and still claim that it should restart at 63'. The ref made the call to restart knowing that the implications of not starting were abandonment. In my opinion that field was not playable at the start of the second half, and if the scenario the ref was working under allowed for partial results I doubt he'd have restarted it. Hell, he may have called delay earlier in the first half... So if you're going to carry on, given that the rule was not set at the time, where do you restart from? 63'? Preposterous. 45'? Maybe justifiable. Earlier?

Better to stay with the rules previously agreed upon. I know I coach to the rules when in competitions (round robin points, goal differential etc) and so would the pros. Save your angst for the weather gods.

[Michael Crampton]

Just as an FYI, if this were an MLS game, the ruling would have been different: "If a Game is cancelled subsequent to the completion of the first half of play and a Team leads in goals or the score is tied at halftime, the score and all Game statistics will stand as final"

From http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/05/26/canadian-championship-second-leg-rescheduled-july-2

Which I suspect has more to do with MLS, as a business only tangentially interested in sporting values, not wanting to have to bear the cost of replays whenever possible. MLS games, particularly in the era before SSSs, used to lose money the first time let alone the second time they'd be played! A replay, honouring the already sold tickets, is a significant expense with little chance of additional revenue generation; that's made even worse if you're renting and have to secure the stadium again.

[bgnewf]

With Adrian Cann gone for the year I started to think about the Voyageurs Cup replay match on July 2nd and if Adrian's injury would impact that game. If I understood what the CSA stated in the press conference after the game was called off last week they said that each club would have to use the 18 man rosters that both clubs had originally used last for the replay game on July 2nd.

And now Cann being out for the season could potentially cut TFC's roster for that match to seventeen.

I contacted the club about this one. They coaches and players all have the day off today and the CSA guys are somewhat busy with the Canada Ecuador game. I was told I would get an answer to this by tomorrow at the latest.

Stay tuned.

[bgnewf]

I received confirmation from TFC that both clubs are indeed able to play with completely different 18 man rosters for the Second Leg replay.

[nfitz]

And after 3 hours of surgery, I finally managed to get my Blackberry functioning properly again ... wasn't able to use the trackball button since it got soaked during the Vancouver game. Corroded contacts ...

[RJB]

Interesting to see this on the Whitecaps site:

 

2011 – Now a four-team knockout tournament, Vancouver reached the final against Toronto in their first season as an MLS side. After a 1-1 home draw in the first leg, an Eric Hassli goal had Vancouver looking comfortable in the second leg in Toronto, only for the match to be abandoned in the 60th minute after the referee deemed the pitch unplayable following a lightning storm and desire from the home side for an abandonment. Vancouver again took the lead when the match was eventually replayed five weeks later, but ended up losing the game 2-1.

 

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2015/08/24/will-be-year-chronicling-vancouvers-canadian-championship-heartbreak

 

Fanning old embers, or perhaps igniting a conspiracy theory?