spiral Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 From everything I've been seeing, and I hate to say it... but I think the MLS is stalling their decision to give St. Louis every opportunity to win. They may be having some money issues right now so Garber will give them as much time to win. If Vancouver was strong enough they would've given it to us by now. Garber is just waiting for St. Louis to get all their ducks lined up, as long as that may take, and then Vancouver will get toppled. MLS doesn't care about star owners like Steve Nash. His light isn't as bright as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree with the St. Louis bit, and will also add Portland, but I think you are unnecessarily demeaning the Vancouver bid. Second choice stadium issue aside (still better than Portland, St. Louis & Miami) Vancouver has the best total package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sorry to say but I hope you're right, spiral. I see three Canadian ownership groups willing to invest some very real money in soccer ($100M USD even with Saputo's low-ball bit PLUS infastructure) being given the cold shoulder by MLS. Disappointing for Vancouver, Ottawa & Montreal? Absolutely, but maybe that signal from MLS could be turned around into another sort of an opportunity for those jilted parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Garber already said that the MLS isn't necessarily interested in more Canadian teams now. They're also waiting for Portland to get its ducks lined up. The MLS will probably wait a whole year just to make sure they'll have a good reason to screw Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 cheeta, if you're thinking that $ 100 million will be used to create a new CSL, forget it. North America is only big enough for ONE big soccer league. It's either MLS or the Whitecaps stay at Swangard. Keep it mind the Whitecaps haven't signed a formal Lease with BC Place yet, only a Letter of Understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettinhalifax Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I thought Kerfoot was committed to building a SSS in Vancouver for the Whitecaps regardless of whether they are in USL or MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ^ But it won't happen till 2016 the way things are going so if it's not revamped BC Place with MLS it may be Swangard with USL-1 till Waterfront Stadium happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Van and Miami are the two. St Louis & Portland next round if they have their act together. Montreal will be later from the looks of it and probably as a relocated team. They will wait until after the Super Bowl to announce so they can get some media coverage and not get drowned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ^Yeah, I still think Vancouver is as good as in but I don't think Vancouver is MLS' 1st choice. However, given the financial environment in the USA right now they're probably head and shoulders above the other pretenders. And let's face it, the Left Coast is a ready made football hot bed waiting to go to the next level and MLS may be the vessel for that evolution. They (MLS) would be crazy not to seize that market with both hands. Collectively, Vancouver/Seattle/Portland could energize the entire league in the same way TFC's success reached into the US soccer subculture. I hold no hope for a new CSL, spiral. I do think though that if MLS were removed from their immediate future these money men could revisit the level of their involvement and influence in the 1st Division. It's in their best interest to improve and grow that league and collectively I think they could do a Hell of a lot of good for the league, and by extension themselves, in doing so. And all at a small fraction of the price they're willing to spend now. Call it the cost of doing business. A strengthened USL 1st Division is a no-lose proposition for Montreal, Ottawa & Vancouver. At worst it improves the perception and marketability of their product. At best it becomes excellent leverage the next time they apply for an MLS franchise. I'm not suggesting they go nuts and break the bank or anything, but they should get together and see if and where they can work together to improve their collective lot. They might be surprised with what evolves sometimes out of just talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 This really begs the question of how long it will take before Canada can sustain its own pro league. We all know that part of MLS's mission statement is to grow the game in the US. The only vested interest they have in Canada is through the money TFC is bringing to the league, as well as the flagship for hardcore support. Aside from the potential rivalry between Seattle and possibly Portland (eventually?), Vancouver doesn't offer MLS anything that TFC has already given it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 MLS is doing what any smart league would do. Giving the various ownership groups time to get all their ducks in order before they make a decision. Moreover, from my understanding, they stated they would make a decision in March and at this point in time are still on track to do so. Lets not simply see this through Canadian eyes. As for having only TFC in the league, I don't think that is sustainable from the MLS point of view in Canada and I believe they know it. The question centers around timing and the needed distribution in the US to enhance national television deals. For example, MLS has no teams in the south (I don't count Texas in that) at present which is a big hole when 2 of the major US cities are located there (Miami #7, and Atlanta #9) and Florida is one of the most populous states (#4). Therefore, with the right ownership groups and appropriate facilities, these cities are always going to rank ahead of Vancouver, Montreal, and Ottawa in the short term all other things being equal. In Canada, they have a market only about the size of California but which has probably greater capacity to support franchises south of the border due to a larger per capita soccer fan base than the US. Therefore, they will want to tap this market but as long as key cities like Miami, Atlanta, and NYC2 are without sides, they will take precedence (all other things being equal). St. Louis does seem to be a soft spot for Garber (and the US due the soccer history) but to say the delay is simply for them to get their ownership in place has no substance. I think Portland and Vancouver are about the same really but as Portland doesn't tick alot of the boxes, I think they are pretty unlikely this time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmynow Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 St. Louis was in the last round (the round that Philly won) and yet Garber didn't do anything to kiss their butts and get them in the league. I don't think he will this time. He's been pretty clear he's not sure if St. Louis has the deep pockets they want. Garber contracted teams in the past because owners couldn't make cash calls when the league was in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I don't have the impression at all that decisions are going to be made for reasons other than business ones. I think they are going to chose the bids that have the best financial backing, the most stable ownership, the best stadium plans, the best possibility of success and that are best for the MLS in terms of market coverage and television rights. The only external factor I really see coming in to the decision is the USL situation. It is in MLS' best interests that the USL continues to exist (developing soccer markets and potential future MLS teams) but does not prosper to the extent that it becomes a competitor which is starting to be the case. Thus, it is in their best interest to take the occasional top USL team into MLS but not so many that the USL folds. I really don't think Garber is the type of guy that would give St. Louis priority for sentimental reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Why not move KC to St Lou? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone Why not move KC to St Lou? Because KC is building a new stadium in KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think the question begs itself as to what happens to the state of Canadian soccer if Vancouver isn't given a franchise spot? Do they wait until other next round? The MLS is an american league and those who run it will base their priorities on expanding the game in the United States. They don't care about the state of the game in Canada. I know the question has been asked before, but could Canada sustain its own league? With the amount of potential money being invested in the game it could be possible. You have two teams and one big investor who want to invest in teams in Canada which would make 4 pro soccer teams : Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. You pool that 3x40$ million and you have a lot of money to invest in a possible league. If they worked together they could use the money to start up new franchises and then sell them later on as was done by AEG when the MLS began. Australia has a smaller population than Canada and is somehow making it work. Hell, Adelaide United made it to the AFC Champions League this year. There is also more expansion on the way with Gold Coast United coming in this year. Furthermore, soccer takes a back seat in Australian sports culture. Stadiums may not be full but they're making it work from what I can see. I guess I would love to see this happen as much as the next guy but there is definitely more money to be made in the MLS and TFC would never leave. I know it's a pipe dream but I feel that eventually a Canadian league will be needed. enough of my musings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Because KC is building a new stadium in KC. Missouri United anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSwede I know the question has been asked before, but could Canada sustain its own league? Yes, but the league's theme song will go like this: "M-I-C... K-E-Y... M-O-U-S-E..." A new CSL will only take a backseat to MLS, just as the CFL takes backseat to the NFL. That's not meant as an insult to the CFL, but the sport's best players will always prefer a US-based league over one of ours. Why? $$$$$$$$$ + international credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ^^ Wouldn't it be better for developing home grown talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 I look on bigsoccer.com boards and there's hardly any discussion about Vancouver's bid. It's all St. Louis /Miami, St. Louis /Miami, St. Louis / Miami, etc, etc Does anyone in the U.S. even know whare Vancouver is? Everything there is "Does St. Louis have deep enough pockets, or Miami is too hot or there's an issue with the owner", etc, etc. They never talk about we're a beautiful city, are having a renovated stadium... not a peepabout Steve Nash involved here. I think down there Steve Nash isn't even on radar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ^Its because the St. Louis fans are delusional. Miami fans are the only ones who haven't given up arguing with them. St. Louis didn't have enough money the last two times, they didn't have enough money a year ago, they didn't have enough money when they got this baseball player on board, and turns out they still don't have the deep pocket investors now. They have had all the time in the world, and now there is the credit crunch. MLS is waiting to see if Portland gets their stadium funding in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Maybe we should do some guerilla marketing of our own? I am not sure when the new franchises will be announced but it is supposed to be a few weeks into the new season. Maybe, we should do a Southsider / Fan run down to Seattle for the home opener March 19th. Colours flying and all. Will it influence a decision maybe yes, maybe no. Should the answer be yes, the rivalry will be off to a great start. MLS execs have to be crazy not to put a few teams in a specific geographic location to fuel rivalries and passions. Could you imagine Portland, Seattle and Vancouver having teams? These rivalries would far outdo a Van/TO one IMHO. The league would win huge not to mention the resulting economic benefits from tourism and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandstander Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think Vancouver's bid is rock solid, and probably needs the least amount of justification as to why the league should go there. I don't expect the forums to be talking alot about Vancouver. Everything is known. You would expect more speculation and talk around the Miami,St. Louis and Portland because they still many questions that need answering. In Vancouver, we know where they will play. We know the four owners (and their deep pockets ) that make the ownership group. We know there's a fan base. Not much to speculate about with this bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ^ Bigsoccer is dominated by Americans, many of whom can hardly think beyond their own state never mind the borders of the USA. You should have learned by now, to many Americans their world IS the US of A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 They say BC Place is half ass. I wanted to post pics of the renovated BC Place but you can't do image URLs on bigsoccer like you can here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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