spiral Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm currently raising hell on bigsoccer.com about supporting Vancouver's bid... I need your help. I need some of you to chime in there and help me... I can't do it alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandstander Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman The Voyageur Cup is only successful because TFC is in the MLS. No TFC and no one would care. Couldn't disagree more. People still don't care outside of the 3 cities that compete in it. Take away TFC and only two cities even care that this event goes on. Either way, CONCACAF needed a Canadian team in the CL. I would like to see the Canadian Championship extend to more teams, pro teams. Teams with full-time players. To have "our champion" as part-time (semi-pro) would be a farce to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 The Oregonian seems to believe the decision will be by March 19... and the Portland Mayor is in big do do right now: http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf?/base/sports/123267751474100.xml&coll=7&thispage=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman The Voyageur Cup is only successful because TFC is in the MLS. No TFC and no one would care. Oh boy!!! It's succesful now because the champion moves onto another competition, the CONCACAF Champions League. Not because one club 'TFC' plays in it. Com'on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by massimo Oh boy!!! It's succesful now because the champion moves onto another competition, the CONCACAF Champions League. Not because one club 'TFC' plays in it. Com'on! Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 MLS want to admit the two best possible bids. St. Louis and Portland both become better bids if they get more money behind them. Thus MLS is waiting to see if they can do this or not. Even if St. Louis gets another investor, or Portland's council decides to throw money at a new stadium for the Timbers, there's still no guarantee that they would beat Vancouver's bid. The best club MLS has ever admitted was Canadian, and the next hot club is in Cascadia. Vancouver benefits most from that. Plus MLSE just bought GolTV, so there's a potential national TV network for two Canadian MLS clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well, it looks like Portland's bid is dead now as well, at least for 2011. The mayor in a sex scandal with a teenager. The same mayor who supported the soccer team. The same soccer team that needs the mayor to give them a big fat cheque for investment for a new stadium. So now there are 3: Vancouver, Miami, and Ottawa. Montreal won't pay the fee; Atlanta has dropped out; St. Louis doesn't have the ownership group (and won't by March in this climate); and Portland can't get the needed cash from the city for the stadium. All we need now is for some scandal with the Miami group; and we could be looking at 2 Canadian franchises (of course, Ottawa still has big question marks over the land for the stadium as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG More than likely that Vancouver is the fallback option in the case of MLS. Vancouver may have everything going for it, yet it is still behind Portland and St. Louis for the bid possibilities. Portland is still in the lead when it comes to expansion. According to what logic/proof/evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Obinna Vancouver clearly has the most solid bid right now, and it would be logical for them to win expansion based on bid strength. But I don't think they will, because they are a Canadian city. MLS doesn't owe Canada anymore franchises. MLS is an American league and its easy to forget that with Toronto FC's inclusion. Vancouver and Ottawa are only fallback options. Ottawa is completely out of the equation. Non factor...no chance. The goal of the league is not to choose the best American bid...it's to accept the market that will help make MLS look and feel like a European league with authentic "football" atmosphere. And thanks to Toronto FC...a Canadian market, the door is wide open for another Canadian team. Vancouver has the best chance to emulate what's happening in Toronto. Portland is a close second...but they don't have the money plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 St. Louis is in trouble: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/othersports/story/642C7AC03C0B83E686257540001482C3?OpenDocument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by spiral St. Louis is in trouble: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/othersports/story/642C7AC03C0B83E686257540001482C3?OpenDocument That's not only old news, but you obviously didn't read the story because Jeff Cooper says "they are close" to securing the appropriate investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 "Close" doesn't mean anything in business. You either got your ducks lined up or you don't. They had the Draft right in St. Louis and when they have the Draft in your own backyard and Garber talks like he did, then no that's not encouraging for them. They talk for months about a mystery investor. If he exists, bring him forward. Reminds me of the Grizzlies when there was supposed to be a mystery investor out there who would buy the team from Michael Heisley and keep them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Don't know if it is relevant but Barça is probably going to do a west coast tour of N. America this summer. That means LA and somewhere else, doesn't it? Maybe to Seattle? That sort of reinforces the importance of the western bids, doesn't it? I wonder, if Miami Barça is the easiest bid to accept and hardest to turn down (they could turn down Barça, but it would hurt MLS terribly, or at least they think it would, so won't), that it may have an opinion on what sort of national market they'd like to see. It would be interesting to see what kind of market FCB products have in Canada, we know EPL clubs probably have a bigger market in Canada proportionally to population than in the US, but I wonder about other clubs, Italian, Spanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 As far as I am aware Barca is not putting much if any money into the Miami MLS venture, just lending their name. We've seen north American clubs 'associate' themselves with European teams before, typically it means very little beyond the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard As far as I am aware Barca is not putting much if any money into the Miami MLS venture, just lending their name. We've seen north American clubs 'associate' themselves with European teams before, typically it means very little beyond the name. I think Barça is basically going to run the club, hire the staff, the front office, the coaching staff, choose the players, and run the club and the on-field team, deal with MLS. Handle the sport side of things, while Claure puts up the money for the franchise. There might be some interesting sports management jobs in there for young talents, as I would imagine they'll hire Americans mostly or whoever can get a green card from Spain, and have a team from the club watching over things. Sala Martín, the economic advisor of Barça, is professor of economics at Columbia, so they already have a point of contact in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 There may be a few people from the Spanish club helping the Miami operation get up and running if it ever does but I doubt they will have many of their management 'first team' there on a permanent basis, if anybody. The US club will be run by local hires, that's my prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I have little doubt that Vancouver will be awarded a place in 2011. Still, I'll wonder aloud if it might be better for the game on both sides of the border to build up a rival league right now. Not a CSL, but perhaps a rebranded USL which reflects more of North America and runs on a more traditional club model? MLS have built on the traditional US model of franchise expansion, and then thrown in some seriously bizarre twists in terms of US development. Some of these regulations are going to set the Caps back (ie. the Academy). It would be nice to explore some of the opinions in the popular imagination on an actual test basis: for example, the thought that promotion/relegation will *never* work in NA. Now we have two strong rivalries that may/will not be in MLS for 2011: Montreal/Rochester and Vancouver/Portland. Puerto Rico are strong, while Charleston and Minnesota are okay. Throw Carolina in there and there's enough for a decent first division which could be greatly improved with investment from Melnyk, Mallett, Nash, et all who have expressed interest in MLS. There's at least 8 decent clubs that could form the second division, which could include Ottawa Fury and Victoria United, as examples. We'd be well on our way to a proper promotion/relegation league without all these ridiculous rules that benefit noone but the US National Team. I'm not saying it would work, but why hang around waiting for MLS if we could improve our lot right now? It's not like this league is so great. Take out TFC and Beckham, what is the average attendance, like 13k? Woopee. If you threw some television coverage and advertising behind the Montreal/Vancouver or Vancouver/Portland derby, I have no doubt you could draw 15-20k in Van City, stadium permitting. Any success from where we stand right now, including getting stadiums built sans MLS, would really give these clubs a strong voice come any future merger. Or who knows, maybe take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Chivas is huge in Mexico. Chivas USA is pants in terms of fan support in L.A., even though the city is a hotbed of American Mexicana. Who says the Spanish will flock to "Miami Barca USA"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Great point B&W. I think CHIVAS should re-locate to San Diego, and closer to the border. The owner had so much money, MLS couldn't say no...but that has been a dissapointing franchise from a "gate" perspective. I'm actually surprised we haven't heard re-location talk more. New England really struggles, despite how solid they've been. Up until this year, Columbus SUCKED at the gate. KC dropped their stadium size considerably, but they were sucking the hind TEET as well. That's why we'll see teams in Portland, and St Louis eventually. Too good markets to be idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta ^Yeah, I still think Vancouver is as good as in but I don't think Vancouver is MLS' 1st choice. However, given the financial environment in the USA right now they're probably head and shoulders above the other pretenders. And let's face it, the Left Coast is a ready made football hot bed waiting to go to the next level and MLS may be the vessel for that evolution. They (MLS) would be crazy not to seize that market with both hands. Collectively, Vancouver/Seattle/Portland could energize the entire league in the same way TFC's success reached into the US soccer subculture. I hold no hope for a new CSL, spiral. I do think though that if MLS were removed from their immediate future these money men could revisit the level of their involvement and influence in the 1st Division. It's in their best interest to improve and grow that league and collectively I think they could do a Hell of a lot of good for the league, and by extension themselves, in doing so. And all at a small fraction of the price they're willing to spend now. Call it the cost of doing business. A strengthened USL 1st Division is a no-lose proposition for Montreal, Ottawa & Vancouver. At worst it improves the perception and marketability of their product. At best it becomes excellent leverage the next time they apply for an MLS franchise. I'm not suggesting they go nuts and break the bank or anything, but they should get together and see if and where they can work together to improve their collective lot. They might be surprised with what evolves sometimes out of just talking. Vancouver is less of soccer hotbed then its is always purported to be, if it were they would have a 25 k downtown stadia, they dont, sorry to say the expansion to MLS if it goes to Vancouver will require the owners to expand its range of fans from the current cultural grouping, and somehow I just dont think it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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