Game vs. Jamaica

[KidCanada]

This will be our first chance to see the players that we will be develpoping for the 2014 cycle. Who will be called, i'm expecting a young squad. all the old ones, thanks for coming out its time to bring in the new troops. This is the line-up i'd like to see....

Begovic

Ledgerwood Edgar Hainault De Jong

Peters Hutchinson Issey Simpson

Hume Johnson

Subs: Wagenaar, Jackson, Jakovic, Harmse, Hoillet

* De Guzman will probably still be included in Canada's future plans but lets keep him in spain for this game.

[sloth8]

While I don't see them using that many young guys, there is at least one of the old-guard who I hope does not play in Kingston; Stalteri. Not playing club football has really hurt him. He has looked terrible throughout the entire group stage. I hope he has the maturity to make way for someone else and to pass the captain's armband on.

[Natesta]

McKenna should still be around next cycle.

[loyola]

Well, let's start giving some of our younger guys experience against Mexico. Here who I think this team coach by Dwayne DeRosario assisted by Jim Brennan should play:

Wagenaar

Ledgerwood---Mckenna----Hainault---Kluka

Jakovic----Hutchinson--Bernier---De Jong

--------------Radz-----Friend--------

You gotta play Radz, he's the only one with Kluka who has been consistent.

For the Jamaica game I would bring Edgar, Begovic, Peters, Hoillet, Ornoch and maybe a few more that I'm forgetting (Hemming maybe).

[michaeltfc91]

I don't see them putting out a U-23 line up, but they should have 4 or 5 new guys. My line-up

Wagenaar

Stalteri Edgar Hainault Klukowski

Peters Hutchinson De Guzman DeJong

De Rosario Johnson

[Joe MacCarthy]

I'm quite sure it won't be done but I'd like to see all the old guys in a farewell match in Edmonton and then throw all the young guys to the dogs in Kingston. I'm trying to remember what we did in Guatemala when we were out. Wasn't that some new blood?

[The Ref]

In spite that I never liked McKenna, I have to admit that the big guy looked half decent out there. But we need to get rid of Stalteri and Friend, they are just two useless sticks out there. I would like to see the two De's Guzman and Rosario playing upfront.

[deschamp86]

I would still like to win the game, so I don't want a whole ton of young guys playing. Wasn't it our poor FIFA ranking that got us stuck in the group of death in the first place. Let's try getting that up a bit for the next time.

[deschamp86]

---------------------Friend----------Hume

Hutchinson-----------de Guzman-------Imhof------------Hoilett

Hainault-------------Hastings--------McKenna----------Edgar

-----------------------------Sutton

SUBS/INVITED TO CAMP

Occean

Jackson

Nakajima-Farran

Ledgerwood

Pozniak

Nash

Klukowski

Stalteri

Serioux

Begovic

Rayner

[rootsman]

You guys don't need to worry about Jamaica. You need to worry about Mexico. What Canada doesn't seem to realize is that Mexico is not a big team. They are very good and slick with the ball, but if you get physical with them, all of that stops. Don't sit back and allow them to move forward in numbers, they will kill you. Body them early and often. They are light.

[sting]

I doubt we will even get to see the game, now that we are out. Unless we can find a stream.

[halfnhalf89]

sportsnet west is showing it

[Alberto7]

Can't understand why anyone wants to get rid of Friend. He is only 27 and playing at a very high level. Given a better chance and better service he will score more goals.

As far as players to play against Jamaica, how about giving a few USLers a chance? It doesn't have to be youngsters for the next cycle. We could reward some players who got very little chance to play with the Nats. My nominations:

Charles Gbeke. He was amazing in the USL playoffs and never got much of a chance with the Nats.

Antonio Ribeiro:He was also amazing in the playoffs and got very little playing time with the nats.

[Dare431]

Edgar hasn't been all that impressive for Newcastle as of late in the CB position. I think he should be given his chance at RB in place of Stalteri. He really shined last year at RB for his club, even notched a goal against Man Utd.

[KidCanada]

quote:Originally posted by Dare431

Edgar hasn't been all that impressive for Newcastle as of late in the CB position. I think he should be given his chance at RB in place of Stalteri. He really shined last year at RB for his club, even notched a goal against Man Utd.

Edgar scored for Newcastle playing left back as an emergency call up from the reserves. He has played a few games this year at right back and hasn't impressed me. I think he deserves a chance at his natural position (center back) with us.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by sting

I doubt we will even get to see the game, now that we are out. Unless we can find a stream.

Thee will be plenty of streams, especially since Mexico still hasn't officially qualified for the next round.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Dare431

Edgar hasn't been all that impressive for Newcastle as of late in the CB position. I think he should be given his chance at RB in place of Stalteri. He really shined last year at RB for his club, even notched a goal against Man Utd.

He recently has been playing RB for Newcastle and his positioning was terrible. He is a much better centre back

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

Can't understand why anyone wants to get rid of Friend. He is only 27 and playing at a very high level. Given a better chance and better service he will score more goals.

As far as players to play against Jamaica, how about giving a few USLers a chance? It doesn't have to be youngsters for the next cycle. We could reward some players who got very little chance to play with the Nats. My nominations:

Charles Gbeke. He was amazing in the USL playoffs and never got much of a chance with the Nats.

Antonio Ribeiro:He was also amazing in the playoffs and got very little playing time with the nats.

We have to learn to get Friend the ball properly. With BM there are players running into the corner and crossing the ball which is how he is scoring so many goals. We are mostly hoofing the ball up field from behind him and hoping for a lucky bounce. Friend can finish if he is set up but he isn't being set up. How often do our forwards have possession in the opponents corner? Once we get near the box we are going into the centre and losing the ball.

As far as USL players go we have tried this before and it didn't work. The level of play of both MLS and USL is well below international level. If we are going to start USL players though it does have to be youngsters who could play in the next cycle. It makes absolutely no sense to play older USL players like Gbeke and Ribeiro. Ethan Gage would make sense.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

We have to learn to get Friend the ball properly. With BM there are players running into the corner and crossing the ball which is how he is scoring so many goals. We are mostly hoofing the ball up field from behind him and hoping for a lucky bounce. Friend can finish if he is set up but he isn't being set up. How often do our forwards have possession in the opponents corner? Once we get near the box we are going into the centre and losing the ball.

Our only width right now comes from Klukowski. If he is our only options for putting balls into the box then Friend is useless. If we get some midfielders who can cross the ball well then Friend will start to show his form that he has with BM when he plays for Canada.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

How so? I thought that in 2004 our best player was a USL player.

How come the Impact can go in to Honduras and win against a team that had five players on the twenty team Honduran squad that played against Canada in a WCQ on Saturday? And those five players included several starters on the Honduran national team and A goal scorer ( Hendry Thomas). When all was said and done, I believe that all five Olimpia players saw action action against Canada. Several of these ( including the starting keeper) also played in the WCQ game in Montreal. So if the USL and MLS level is so well below, how come Honduras can load of with a majority of players from Olimpia and CD Marathon plus an MLS player and beat Canada, not once but twice. So Honduras have players who cant beat a USL team, but can beat our national team composed of Euro based players.

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/matchreport/7192.pdf

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/nccamerica/matches/round=250468/match=300053877/index.html

Except for the odd player such a deguzman, most players on our squad play for clubs who average fewer fans than each of the three MLS & USkl clubs. I do not believe that a club like the one Bernier plays for ( who averages fewer fans than any of the Impact Cap, and TFC)could operate at such high level of professionalism and be as competitive as you make it sound.

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/aveden.htm

In fact, I thought the big lesson from this WCQ campaign is that DM overrated the Euro talent and overlooked domestic based players. Which, unlike the euro based talent, are known. In retrospect, how could we possibly have done worst by loading up on MLS/USL players and supplement the squad with the obvious choice like DeGuzman.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

In fact, I thought the big lesson from this WCQ campaign is that DM overrated the Euro talent and overlooked domestic based players. Which, unlike the euro based talent, are known. In retrospect, how could we possibly have done worst by loading up on MLS/USL players and supplement the squad with the obvious choice like DeGuzman.

To be fair we were happy with the fact that he was picking what we considered the best players. And for a lot of them I still consider them the best possible options.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

To be fair we were happy with the fact that he was picking what we considered the best players. And for a lot of them I still consider them the best possible options.

And evidently, we were all wrong. Other than DeGuzman, did you see anything special from our Euro based talent. Our forwards scored 1 goal in four games ( the header by Gerba off the FK in Mex). I saw nothing from Friend. So I really don't see how Plancentino or Gbeke could have done worst.

And what about our defenders, there are plenty of Canadians defenders in the USL and MLS. But none looked as sloppy and un reliable as our national team defenders did in their four games. Have you seen any USL or MLS canadian look as bad as Stalteri did in this WCQ campaign and last? Have you seen our Cnd MLS/USL defenders hoof the ball to nowhere as much as Hastings did. Is Haineault really better than Pizzolitto? How come the Impact can look so compact and composed defensively in Honduras but our national team cant.

As far as others, there is no way anyone in their right mind would take Stalteri over Marvelle Wynne. Tyrone Marshall started and played 90 minutes for Jamaica who beat Mex 1-0. I doubt that they would have achieved that by playing like some of our defenders did. So the better question might be, how many of our national team players are actually of USL or MLS quality?

[The Ref]

If the only way that Friend can score is for him being served the ball on a silver platter, I pass. Great scorers do it by themselves. We don't need half players. I am glad he is gone.

[Grizzly]

Comments like that show how ignorant you are of even basic soccer strategy. Friend is a finisher like many strikers. If you want him to score you have to play to his strengths and give him crosses into the box from the corner. Most good teams have strikers who are of a certain quality and the team plays to their strengths. We do not try or are unable to do this. Strikers who can create a chance and score on it by themselves are not that common and I have not seen any Canadian player who can do this on a consistent or even occasional basis. If Friend was unable to score at a high level he would not be scoring in the 1st Bundesliga. If he is going to be successful for us we need to play a system that is similar to that employed by BM which is that the midfield brings the ball into the attacking zone on the wings and plays it in. Our midfield mostly lost the ball well before the box in the middle of the pitch to the defensive midfielders.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

And evidently, we were all wrong. Other than DeGuzman, did you see anything special from our Euro based talent. Our forwards scored 1 goal in four games ( the header by Gerba off the FK in Mex). I saw nothing from Friend. So I really don't see how Plancentino or Gbeke could have done worst.

And what about our defenders, there are plenty of Canadians defenders in the USL and MLS. But none looked as sloppy and un reliable as our national team defenders did in their four games. Have you seen any USL or MLS canadian look as bad as Stalteri did in this WCQ campaign and last? Have you seen our Cnd MLS/USL defenders hoof the ball to nowhere as much as Hastings did. Is Haineault really better than Pizzolitto? How come the Impact can look so compact and composed defensively in Honduras but our national team cant.

As far as others, there is no way anyone in their right mind would take Stalteri over Marvelle Wynne. Tyrone Marshall started and played 90 minutes for Jamaica who beat Mex 1-0. I doubt that they would have achieved that by playing like some of our defenders did. So the better question might be, how many of our national team players are actually of USL or MLS quality?

You have an obsession with playing mostly North American players. I think our players overall disappointed both the European and North American ones. Our North American players sucked every bit as much as the Europeans if not more. The only one who was good was Serioux, a player who was successful in Europe and only left for personal reasons. I would also consider him our best Canadian playing in North America by far because he is the only one who has shown he can take his game up a notch to the higher level of international competition unlike DeRo and Onstad and Brennan (Brennan has played well for us in the past when he was in Europe but certainly didn't this time around). Onstad cost us two points and doomed our qualification right from the beginning and DeRo was the invisible man out there. Harmse wasn't exactly great either though he should not have been called in the first place. Oh yeah, and Sutton didn't even show up.

So you are suggesting despite the fact that only one of our five North American based players played well we should call even more North American players less skilled than those we called this time? Many of these players have been called before for example in the last WCQ and didn't do well then either. In fact, most looked completely out of place. Placentino isn't even a starter for the Impact and he should now be a MNT player? From what I have seen from Gbeke he will score but he needs a lot of chances to do so something that none of our strikers is getting. And yes Hainault is much better than Pizzolitto and the rest of the impact backline, even when he was 19 and playing with the Impact he was the best defender on the club despite NDS' refusal to give much playing time to a young defender. I will admit Stalteri was a disaster this WCQ though I think that is not because he is in Europe but because he is not playing at his club. We don't have a lot of options at right back but nevertheless DM should have substituted him when he was not performing up to par.

It is absolutely false to compare club competition to international, the level of play is much higher internationally even if some players do play for the same clubs. Even allowing for the comparison, one has to look at the details. Honduras has a league with a good level of play, similar to the MLS/USL level, with 10 teams all made up of primarily Honduran players. There were players from 6 different Honduran teams on this squad, ie. a Honduran league all star team supplemented by some foreign based players. In Canada we have 3 teams, one that has almost no Canadians playing regularly and the other 2 that have only about 50% Canadians. The best players of Olimpia for example are mostly Honduran unlike the Impact and Caps whose best players with a few exceptions are mostly foreign. When we played Olimpia, Olimpia played 3 foreign players while the Impact played 8.

There are two philosophies of playing, playing your best players or playing a team that you can get playing together more often. However, the conditions that allow a team like Honduras to train together regularly don't exist in Canada. First of all we just don't have a large enough number of good Canadian players playing in North America. Second of all the teams are both far away from each other and very busy during the schedule so there would be a minimal time to practice. Is it that much easier to bring players from Toronto, Montreal, Houston and Vancouver together than it is to bring them from Europe? I guess Toronto and Montreal players could practice together occassionally but Toronto has so few regular Canadian starters that it wouldn't even be worthwhile. If Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa were all playing in MLS with a significant number of Canadian starters the idea of forming a team based with these players and supplemented by some players from Europe and more distant North American cities might have some merit. Until then it is a ridiculous idea and we have to go with our best players who are mostly in Europe.

What we need is the CSA to schedule enough training matches for the team that they play together frequently and to hire a good coach who will properly prepare the team.