Buy our own Football Team!

[Natesta]

I don't know how well this would work in Canada, but if you all get close, I'd probobly be able to be talked into this.

That being said, I'm definately going to invest the 35 pounds in myfootball club so I can get access to the members site and start recommending young Canadians as part of their scouting staff.

Seems like it could be a good way to get our Canadian players some european exposure.

In fact, maybe we should just buy ourselves an English side!

[BrennanFan]

Im currently dead broke, but by the time it came to actually paying i'd likely have a spare $1000, so im in for 1K.

also i think it wouldn't hurt to consider raising enough for a USL-1 team. aim high.

[Footscray]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Whoaah... slow down their cowboy. The wrong sort of land is cheap in Winnipeg. No doubt about that. Not so sure about the sort you'd want.

By the by, will be getting a look at WSC II next week. See how it's coming along. Might be a decent (FieldTurf) venue for a small club.

Don't think PDL would fly in Winnipeg. Season is too short, quality not superior enough to attract any sort of ticket buying fan base.

That being said, I could be parted from some of my beer money for a scheme like this. Hell, I mostly make my own beer anyway. My surplus beer budget just ends up being spent on stoopid stuff anyway. So why not this? I ain't that broke yet.

Neat scheme. Raising a million would absolutely be the easiest part of the venture me-thinks.

Fair enough, I have to admit a lack of knowledge about Winnipeg, just saw houses going for relatively cheap there compared to further west.

However implausible the entire scenario is, what I'm getting at is that with $1,000,000 I think it would be more sound long term to purchase a piece of land, preferably with a revenue generating pub/social club, as a start and cater the level of play to the revenue generated thereafter.

Rather that than purchase a PDL license and a year or two of hotels, coaching salaries and bus and facility rentals - worth a few years of memories in the long run if your only revenue stream is 100 people a night at 5 a pop and the money bleeds away. You can also borrow against land should the need arise.

Added Bonus - If the club didn't work out at that level something tangible remains and I can squat on the land in a tent when I get kicked out for squandering money . On second thought lets put it somewhere warmer than Winnipeg. Kelowna anyone?

[BrennanFan]

According to their website, starting a USL-1 team costs $350,000 USD.

Yearly operating budget is $1.5 Mil.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/aboutusl/franchise/123541.html

Link below is a list for USL minimum stadium standards etc.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/docs/aboutusl/franchise/Min%20Standards.pdf

Anyone want to start up a Voyageurs bank account / Trust fund?

[squid2]

Lets wait and see where this takes us.... what I'm suggesting is let's assess the interest in this concept between now and THE GAME in Montreal.

We meet in Montreal, tally up those who have provisionally made an expresson of interest and then make some decisions to take us to the next step up the ladder.

So to borrow a well used cliche, DARE TO DREAM, can we agree that we'll let this ride till June and we talk it up and drum more support and interest. AND then,

Meet in Montreal to assess the need for our next and more formal steps?

[L.T.]

USL Franchise fees have gotten much higher... PDL fees are comparable to what the CSL is asking for..

I'm thinking about $200-250k startup would be needed to cover PDL/CSL franchise fees + operating costs for the first couple of years...

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

Lets wait and see where this takes us.... what I'm suggesting is let's assess the interest in this concept between now and THE GAME in Montreal.

We meet in Montreal, tally up those who have provisionally made an expresson of interest and then make some decisions to take us to the next step up the ladder.

So to borrow a well used cliche, DARE TO DREAM, can we agree that we'll let this ride till June and we talk it up and drum more support and interest. AND then,

Meet in Montreal to assess the need for our next and more formal steps?

Sounds like a plan to me Squid.

I'm about to board a flight but when I get home, I'll start a spreadsheet to keep track of stated interest.

I purchased the "CSSU-online" web address late last year and haven't done much of anything with it. This venture might be a good reason to take that site live.

the more I think of it, the more convinced I am that $1million can be raised with relative ease. keep in mind that not everyone will buy just 1 share. You'll have some people kick in 10-20 shares if they see evidence that this is for real.

[fishman]

I agree that not only can money be raised, several parties could be convinced to buy additional shares. VPjr, it would be great if you could start some sort of tracking for the stated interest.

[River City]

We're at $11,000.00 with a further $1,000 if we get close (Natesta)

masster, squid2, River City, VPjr, jpg75, Ivan, Footscray, Stephen, Cheeta, BrennanFan, little River City.

In terms of owning the land, I think it's ultimately cheaper to rent a city owned stadium and still take in gate revenue, concessions and advertising, than it is to get stuck with buliding and maintenance costs. That's my vote anyway.

[jpg75]

You can add my old man, jpg44, to the list.

[SoccerNewf]

Hey guys, been lurking around here awhile, but when I seen this I had to join so you guys could add me to the list.

[royalcity]

put me on the list too.

[JamesW]

So who's going to be in charge of this money if it ever moves past posts on a forum. I wounder if Polish Lynx fan wants to step forward...

[Blue and White Army]

quote:Originally posted by Jamit

So who's going to be in charge of this money if it ever moves past posts on a forum. I wounder if Polish Lynx fan wants to step forward...

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing.

Good effort, though, boys! Keep at it...

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Jamit

So who's going to be in charge of this money if it ever moves past posts on a forum. I wounder if Polish Lynx fan wants to step forward...

A company would have to be incorporated, directors chosen, bank accounts would be need to be established and rules for use of said funds would need to be established.

I've gone through that with the CSF incorporation. it would not be too tough. Just takes organization and consensus.

[Blue and White Army]

youllneverwalkalone, I'm interested in playing. I've sent you an email to the address linked to your Voyageurs account.

[An Observer]

You can count me in provided you put a proper structure in place and consult on it through this board or another forum. I might even be convinced to give you more than a $1k

[An Observer]

You can count me in provided you put a proper structure in place and consult on it through this board or another forum. I might even be convinced to give you more than a $1k

[squid2]

this is a lengthy one,

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

You can count me in provided you put a proper structure in place and consult on it through this board or another forum.

Absolutely..... a no brainer.....

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I might even be convinced to give you more than a $1k

Indeed. Someone mentioned that to me last night when I shared that this was evolving, here and now.

He was willing to contribute more. And others couldn't afford a $1,000.

So I'm thinking maybe a share = $100.00, which equates to the single vote.

And then for those of us who can contribute more, we do so as a "gift" to the club (as per however it be determined as per Canadian law, or through the corporate charter of our Dare to Dream structure through the rules and regulations).

Just something to think about.

So in my case, membership share is $100 + $900 gift = my $1,000.00.

I'm happy to do this.

At $100, we open the option for more members/supporters because its more affordable than a $1,000.00.

I’m going out on the limb here, but I’ll suggest EBBSFLEET’s current set-up is OUR blueprint with a few changes as per Canadian law.</u>

http://www.myfootballclub.co.uk/faq

"Frequently Asked Questions

MEMBERSHIP Why £35?

To make it affordable for as many people as possible. It's less than most Premiership tickets, and also less than a new football manager computer game.

What if the club goes into debt - will I be liable or have to pay anything?No you won't. The club will be a limited company. So if the club incurs debt which cannot be met from the club's own resources, MyFootballClub members would not be liable for that debt.

In fact, the MyFootballClub model makes it less likely for the club to encounter financial difficulty as it provides a brand new income stream for the club. This would be on top of all the traditional sources of revenue, such as gate receipts, sponsorship, TV income and merchandising. It's also hoped that these sources of income would increase because of the club's increased popularity.

I love English football, but I do not live in England. Can I still join?Absolutely. Overseas members are positively encouraged. This will also help the club's scouting network.

Can I buy more than one share?No. It's strictly one share, one vote per member.

What if I don't want to be a member of MyFootballClub in the second year?Membership fees are annual. If you do not want to continue being a member, there's no obligation to renew.

53,000 were invited to become members. Is this the limit?No. The principle of any Trust, including the MyFootballClub Trust, is not to limit numbers, and to raise as much money as possible for the 'cause'. Being able to surpass 53,000 will enable the members' football club to become even more competitive.

THE FOOTBALL CLUB

What happens to the current 'behind the scenes' employees of the club once purchased?The intention is for them to stay. It's important the club retains its identity. Staff and existing supporters will play an important role in conveying the club's values and traditions to MyFootballClub members.

How will the management of the club be structured?The intention is that the club management will include existing employees and Directors of the club. Above all, management will possess the experience necessary to run the football club, and should be prepared to act in accordance with the instructions of MyFootballClub members.

Who will be on the Board of the club?New Directors will be appointed, whose role will include ensuring that decisions taken by MyFootballClub members are implemented on a day-to-day basis. A member of the MyFootballClub web team will also be on the Board, as good communication between the website and the club will be crucial to MyFootballClub's success.

What if after the club is bought there's no money left over?

The club will still have all of its traditional revenue streams. New members will also provide further income.

What happens if there is money left over after purchasing a clubThe members will decide how to spend it. It could, for example, be used for buying new players. Once the club is purchased, membership fees from new members will be divided into various funds, eg Player Transfers, Stadium, Youth Policy and Community. It will be up to the members to decide what percentage of the money each fund receives.

What if members make the club successful, will they be rewarded?All profits generated by the football club will be reinvested in the club, meaning members will not be paid a dividend or a share of these profits. This will put the football club on a more secure financial footing, since there will be no shareholders who take money out of the club.

This also means decisions affecting the club will be made purely for the club's benefit, and not by shareholders who have a vested interest. So for example, if there's a great young player at the club who could be sold for a high fee, the decision about whether to sell him will be made by members, not by an owner who wants to make a personal profit.

Can MyFootballClub members sell the club then if they want to?

Yes. It will require a 75% majority to pass such a motion. However, as the club will not be run for members' profit, any proceeds from the sale will not be shared by MyFootballClub Members. This is therefore unlikely to happen in practice. If, however, a vote is passed to sell the club, then proceeds would be given to a charity with similar objects.

Won't the existing fans of the club be unhappy?A proportion of fans might be, as with all football club takeovers. Others, however, will recognise the benefits of being owned by thousands of football lovers from around the world, rather than a single individual with unknown motives.

MyFootballClub members will all be putting money directly into the club, not looking to take any out, and will be solely motivated by the club's success. No other takeover or new owner will promise that.

THE HEAD COACH

No manager... you serious?Absolutely. In England we've had over 120 years of managers picking teams, so for one football club to try something new isn't being hasty.

Our Head Coach will be in an enviable and unique position. He will be able concentrate on coaching and getting the best out of players, without being accused of picking the wrong team or formation.

He can guide members on which players and formations may work, however, ultimate responsibility rests with the members. He will also benefit from a substantial transfer budget – something that is unheard of in the lower leagues.

Do members have a say in who the head coach for our team will be?The current manager will be given the opportunity to become the head coach. Should he decline, then yes, the members will have a say.

BUYING AND SELLING PLAYERS

How will players be bought and sold

MyFootballClub members will be able to suggest transfer targets. As will the Head Coach and club scouts. Deals to buy these players will be done in principle, and then members will vote whether to accept or veto the transfer. The same process will take place for outgoing transfers.

You explain that members would target and sign players. But who would then negotiate?Like all clubs, ours will have a chief executive. And it will be the chief executive's role to manage the transfer process.

Do members pay for player transfers?Members will decide how to distribute income from membership fees after the club takeover. This money, and income from other revenue streams, will contribute towards paying for transfers.

THE WEBSITE

Why isn't there a real-time counter showing how many members there are?During the takeover phase, it is prudent not to reveal how much money the Trust has, so as to protect our negotiating position with football clubs. As soon as a football club has been purchased, the number of members will be made public.

Will you just be the web-interface between members and the Head Coach?After the takeover, the primary role of the MyFootballClub web team is to provide a website that enables MyFootballClub members to steer the course of the club. This will include smooth communications between members and all key club staff.

Who is behind MyFootballClub?Will Brooks had the idea in February 2005. In the mid 1990s Will set up a fanzine for London football clubs. He then worked as a writer on Match of the Day magazine for 5 years. More recently he has worked as an advertising copywriter. Many others have helped launch MyFootballClub, providing legal, technical and football advice.

PICKING THE TEAM

How will the team be picked?How will players react to being picked by thousands of members rather than a manager?

It will inspire them. Having the backing of tens of thousands of members will be the ultimate motivation. Don’t forget, personality clashes between managers and players are common in football and often lead to poor performances. Our club will not suffer from this. Players will know that if they play well then they should get picked.

POTENTIAL DRAWBACKS

Won't opposition managers be able to find out team line-ups and tactics, therefore getting an advantage?No. The MyFootballClub coach will be given members' selection well in advance of the match. It will then be published on the MyFootballClub website an hour before kick-off, the same time as the opposition and other media sources find out.

What if someone intentionally makes bad decisions to affect the club?

Firstly, we think it's unlikely someone would pay £35 to do this, but if they do, we should thank them for providing money to buy players and improve the club. And secondly, a ‘crazy’ vote will not be the deciding vote with tens of thousands voting."

Again, as a caution, the above is direct from Ebbsfleet, if implemented here, some amendments would be required.

Let's watch the interest in this. We'll arrange for a meeting in Montreal in June - faces to names, etcs., acquire some more information as I'm told this model is already here in North America.

As a matter of clarity, I'm just floating this out there. I'm interesting in signing up - paying a $1,000 and exercising my vote as and when required. I have no desire in anything else except floating ideas or posting information. I'll be a little heavy here at the front end - but others can pick up the ball if we generate some traction. I'm too old.

Democracy and majority rules, therefore a 1 share maximum = 1 vote.

[Footscray]

My day job is as a Financial Analyst and I will volunteer if there is a need to do some work outside of my 9-5 creating the business models, I've got a little experience doing the same planning the operations and construction on larger projects. I am in the far north though and with the bulk of people seemingly in TO/Montreal/Vancouver I think that any meeting will need to be a regular thing planned well in advance so I can plan and clear the travel.

As for the share issue Squid I think it is a nice touch to include more people - I think we should consider it carefully though in case it might dissuade any potential larger investors... just a thought.

[jasonm]

Well Ebbsfleet won the FA Trophy 1-0. So the cinderella story continues....

Once all the legal documentation is done, count me in. I think Edmonton would be a good fit for a PDL team.

[VPjr]

Squid

Great idea for lowering the voting share price to $100.00.

Rather than deeming anything above $100.00 a gift, we can consider creating a voting class of shares (max 1 vote per shareholder) and a seperate non-voting, dividend bearing class of shares. Just an idea to give a small incentive to people who might be inclined more than $100 per season. It might be a good idea to study it.

I'm home now. I will start organizing all the info provided so far into a spreadsheet ASAP.

[fishman]

I love that this idea is taking shape...

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Rather than deeming anything above $100.00 a gift, we can consider creating a voting class of shares (max 1 vote per shareholder)...

I believe that is how they do it in the various supporters trusts in England set up with the assistance of Supporters Direct. You can buy as many shares as you like but each person gets one vote no matter how many shares they have purchased. It is part of what the call an Industrial and Provident Society which, as far as I can tell, has no direct equivalent in Canada but someone with actual knowledge of corporate law would know better.

[KAS]

Ok, I will start by saying that I can't go to Montreal (family wedding) and since I won't invest in something I'm unsure of, I won't make any promises/pledges until there is a real proposal to evaluate. You can view me as interested, but non-committal.

Here are some ideas for you all to consider:

If you were to drop the price of a share from $1000 to $100, then you will increase the number of shareholders - which would make the organization more unwieldy and difficult to operate while reducing each individual's feeling of attachment - without necessarily raising more money. One vote per person is essential, but that means that many of the people who are now willing to pay $1000 to be a part of it would just pay $100 for the same effect and keep the other $900.

Many Canadian companies have Class A and Class B shares (ex Bombardier). You could make the Voting Class shares $1000, and the Non-Voting Class $100. This would provide the best of both worlds. The $100 shares would bring in alot of people who can't afford more or are more casual in their support, while the voting privledges encourages those who can to pay the $1000 and keeps the voting group a more manageable size.

Since shareholders will be from all-over Canada (perhaps the world), but the team has to be located somewhere, many will not be able to continue their support by actually attending games. Shareholders should agree to ensure that this team doesn't fold as fast as the Edmonton Aviators and many other teams historically have by promising ongoing support. Shareholders should promise to invest an additional 10-20% of share price ($10 or $20 for $100 shares and $100 or $200 for $1000 voting-class shares) each year for atleast the first five years. This would ensure the financial health of the club and convince the USL to try this experiment. Voting/membership privledges would be suspended for those who were not up-to-date on their annual dues.

Now to get all of your flamethrowers turned in my direction, I will point out that USL1 is too big for this venture. It may be possible to raise the money for the expansion fee, but not the ongoing costs. Even if it was possible, it will not be as much fun when Montreal and Vancouver go to MLS. The two Canadian teams will be leaving that league (plus Seattle), so it is going downhill and you will be trying to get attention and quality Canadian players in competition against three Canadian MLS teams.

The PDL is realistic, but at the risk of offending the more narrow-minded guys here, I think you should all consider the W-League as well.

The W-League is similar in size/costs as PDL, but it is currently the top Women's league in North America. The new American pro-league will only have eight teams. The W-league can be marketed as top-class to the public, while the PDL cannot. The Voyageurs support Canada's national teams. A single PDL team *MIGHT* produce a single player who years later emerges as a NT member, but you have a much better chance of acquiring/producing NT players with a W-League team. Large Canadian cities like Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton do not have a W-League team so there are open spots in large markets.

Whether you go with W-League or PDL, if you prefer Ontario to Alberta or somewhere else out West, then I would suggest taking a look at Kingston (no competion, Richardson stadium good enough for 2004 MNT WCQ so more than large enough and FIFA-compliant, right in the middle of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal triangle).

Depending on the size of the Lynx's territory, I would also suggest Oshawa. It's stadium is just big enough (bigger/better than Lynx's Centenial), and although Oshawa is only ~150K, you would really be going after all of Durham region (Oshawa, Whitby, Ajax, Pickering, ect), which is over 500K and growing fast with a well-educated, high-income, suburban population with a massive number of soccer players. If Toronto, London and Hamilton can all fit in together, than Oshawa might be allowed and it is a soccer hotbed.

Just some ideas to add to the discussion.