World Cup Draw

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Comparing supporting Australia in Iraq, a country involved in an illegal war with its soldiers killing civilians, with travelling to Mexico to support Canada for a game.

Actually the comparison was between a game in Iraq versus a game in North Korea, but you were too high up on your soapbox again to be able to read that closely.

I guess it must have been tails this morning, huh?

[Grizzly]

What was that song again, I think it is by Led Zeppelin, oh yeah I remembered, they sing it at Azteca:

99 bags of piss on the wall, 99 bags of piss, we take one down, pass it around, throw it at Jefferey, 98 bags of piss on the wall.

98 bags of piss .....etc.

Good luck in Azteca and the rest of central America, JS, not that you would ever leave your safety net to go there.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Internet forums are great, you get to stay home and take the piss all at once.

Just thinking that Guardado and De Guzman are teammates at Depor and must be speaking about facing each other in the Semis. Both have a similar status, young stars on the rise. Both actually play similarly for their national teams, Julian further forward when with us and Guardado where he is at Depor with Mexico. The good thing about that is that you don't have to be in awe of the opponent, you realize he is human. Same with us facing Pavon, we are familiar with these guys.

How many cases do we have of future opponents that are teammates now, how many times has it happened in the past, I really don't know.

Is there any reason why the FIFA rankings of May were the criteria for doing the groups? Was that applied to all regions, or just us?

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Is there any reason why the FIFA rankings of May were the criteria for doing the groups? Was that applied to all regions, or just us?

Most likely to ensure a favourable draw for T&T.

UEFA used the most updated ranking.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Most likely to ensure a favourable draw for T&T.

UEFA used the most updated ranking.

These are the little details that CSA fails on over and over again. We had to lobby for a more favourable condition for the draw, a simple criteria that could be applied fairly that would in the end benefit us a bit more. But you get the sense there is absolutely no one around actually thinking about the team in any detail.

In any case, the idea that you use ranking from before the regional tournament is rather pathetic, you are actually showing disdain for the Gold Cup by doing things that way.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Is there any reason why the FIFA rankings of May were the criteria for doing the groups? Was that applied to all regions, or just us?

Like Massive Attack implied, the May results would have provided

T&T with the most favourable outcome as it would have excluded the

Gold Cup results (T&T did not use its World Cup-experienced players

due to a dispute). And yes, if UEFA would use the latest rankings

why wouldn't CONCACAF? Because.

In the end, all our opponents are human like you mentioned, and

we have the chance to make them worry about us. It's up to our

team to meet up to the challenge, rather than making our worries into

some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

In any case, the idea that you use ranking from before the regional tournament is rather pathetic, you are actually showing disdain for the Gold Cup by doing things that way.

Couldn't agree more. The suspicion of corruption is huge in CONCACAF,

but you will not see ANY of our CONCACAF brethren complain about it

because many are too poor and underfunded to challenge the CONCACAF

soccer elite (Mexico, T&T, USA, and Costa Rica).

The Gold Cup itself is designed historically to have a USA-Mexico

final, and each time T&T have fared well or easily into the next

rounds, but not this time, even before the tournament.

The 2000 Canadian win was a fluke historically, as we "should have

been" eliminated by South Korea, Mexico, T&T, and Colombia. Goes to

show everyone that anything is possible.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Internet forums are great, you get to stay home and take the piss all at once.

Just thinking that Guardado and De Guzman are teammates at Depor and must be speaking about facing each other in the Semis. Both have a similar status, young stars on the rise. Both actually play similarly for their national teams, Julian further forward when with us and Guardado where he is at Depor with Mexico. The good thing about that is that you don't have to be in awe of the opponent, you realize he is human. Same with us facing Pavon, we are familiar with these guys.

How many cases do we have of future opponents that are teammates now, how many times has it happened in the past, I really don't know.

Is there any reason why the FIFA rankings of May were the criteria for doing the groups? Was that applied to all regions, or just us?

Interesting post Jeffrey.

How about the "other" Suazo. Maynor I think it is. Doesn't he play with McKenna at Koln?

And as far as where we play and how best we prep for the qualifiers, I think the CSA (and Mitchell of course) should consult some of the leading players. I am sure the likes of Stalteri, McKenna, DeGuzman, Hutch and DeRo could provide some good insight from the players perspective on both equally important issues.

[David C.]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

In any case, the idea that you use ranking from before the regional tournament is rather pathetic, you are actually showing disdain for the Gold Cup by doing things that way.

Agreed. CONCACAF could have kept Mexico, USA and Costa Rica as the three seeds (based on winning the last automatic bids) and even added Trinidad to the highest pot (based on winning the 4th bid). Then continue with the draw, based on the August (post-Gold Cup) rankings. That would have been much more palatable and fair.

Also, why doesn't CONCACAF simply do away with the semi-final round and split the 12 teams into 2 groups of 6 (with Mexico and USA as seeds)? Group winners get automatic bids. Both second place finishers playoff for the third automatic bid. Loser of that playoff goes against the South American 5th. That would be a fun format to watch and we get more competitive games, like Europe and South America do.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

I like your idea David C. and I've proposed a similar one in another forum:

12 teams, 2 groups of 6, top 3 of each group advance to the Hex.

This only means 4 more games, so if we start the Preliminary rounds a bit earlier like other Confederation we could get there.

I think this system is giving a fair chance to everyone because the problem with the current system is that a group like Mex, Can, Hon and Jam could easily have 3 of the top 4 teams in CONCACAF. One of them could not reach the Hex.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

I like your idea David C. and I've proposed a similar one in another forum:

12 teams, 2 groups of 6, top 3 of each group advance to the Hex.

This only means 4 more games, so if we start the Preliminary rounds a bit earlier like other Confederation we could get there.

I think this system is giving a fair chance to everyone because the problem with the current system is that a group like Mex, Can, Hon and Jam could easily have 3 of the top 4 teams in CONCACAF. One of them could not reach the Hex.

[Gordon]

I think this is a brilliant draw for us. One of two things is going to happen. We will take St. Vincent & Grenadines lightly and be upset, which I think will necessarily result in a huge review of the way we run soccer in Canada, or we are going to take a look at this draw and say, "man we'd better prepare this time". All of Jamaica, Honduras and Mexico could finish ahead of us, and it not be deemed catastrophic, but losing out to St. V & G? No way to sugar coat that.

There is also no way that the CSA can look at our semi-final group and say, yeah, we can take an automatic 4+ points from XXX, as I have no doubts was the case in 2004 relative to Guatemala. If we prepare reasonably, we have as good a shot at advancing as anyone. If we prepare, and don't, then we will have no excuses.

Canadian soccer thrives on excuses.

[Gordon]

I think this is a brilliant draw for us. One of two things is going to happen. We will take St. Vincent & Grenadines lightly and be upset, which I think will necessarily result in a huge review of the way we run soccer in Canada, or we are going to take a look at this draw and say, "man we'd better prepare this time". All of Jamaica, Honduras and Mexico could finish ahead of us, and it not be deemed catastrophic, but losing out to St. V & G? No way to sugar coat that.

There is also no way that the CSA can look at our semi-final group and say, yeah, we can take an automatic 4+ points from XXX, as I have no doubts was the case in 2004 relative to Guatemala. If we prepare reasonably, we have as good a shot at advancing as anyone. If we prepare, and don't, then we will have no excuses.

Canadian soccer thrives on excuses.

[Bxl Boy]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

Agreed. CONCACAF could have kept Mexico, USA and Costa Rica as the three seeds (based on winning the last automatic bids) and even added Trinidad to the highest pot (based on winning the 4th bid). Then continue with the draw, based on the August (post-Gold Cup) rankings. That would have been much more palatable and fair.

Also, why doesn't CONCACAF simply do away with the semi-final round and split the 12 teams into 2 groups of 6 (with Mexico and USA as seeds)? Group winners get automatic bids. Both second place finishers playoff for the third automatic bid. Loser of that playoff goes against the South American 5th. That would be a fun format to watch and we get more competitive games, like Europe and South America do.

I also like this format but I'm against for the moment.

Why ? It's easy : the chances that Mexico and USA finish first in their respective groups is huge.

So, the third qualification spot, the “most intersting” regarding us, will be played after a playoff that will have too much importance in comparison with the group phase.

If we got 4 spots, and the 2nd of each group receives automatic qualification, then I'm totally in favour of your proposal.

[Bxl Boy]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

Agreed. CONCACAF could have kept Mexico, USA and Costa Rica as the three seeds (based on winning the last automatic bids) and even added Trinidad to the highest pot (based on winning the 4th bid). Then continue with the draw, based on the August (post-Gold Cup) rankings. That would have been much more palatable and fair.

Also, why doesn't CONCACAF simply do away with the semi-final round and split the 12 teams into 2 groups of 6 (with Mexico and USA as seeds)? Group winners get automatic bids. Both second place finishers playoff for the third automatic bid. Loser of that playoff goes against the South American 5th. That would be a fun format to watch and we get more competitive games, like Europe and South America do.

I also like this format but I'm against for the moment.

Why ? It's easy : the chances that Mexico and USA finish first in their respective groups is huge.

So, the third qualification spot, the “most intersting” regarding us, will be played after a playoff that will have too much importance in comparison with the group phase.

If we got 4 spots, and the 2nd of each group receives automatic qualification, then I'm totally in favour of your proposal.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I think this is a brilliant draw for us. One of two things is going to happen. We will take St. Vincent & Grenadines lightly and be upset, which I think will necessarily result in a huge review of the way we run soccer in Canada, or we are going to take a look at this draw and say, "man we'd better prepare this time". All of Jamaica, Honduras and Mexico could finish ahead of us, and it not be deemed catastrophic, but losing out to St. V & G? No way to sugar coat that.

There is also no way that the CSA can look at our semi-final group and say, yeah, we can take an automatic 4+ points from XXX, as I have no doubts was the case in 2004 relative to Guatemala. If we prepare reasonably, we have as good a shot at advancing as anyone. If we prepare, and don't, then we will have no excuses.

Canadian soccer thrives on excuses.

I agree totally. We have a tough group but would have to beat the likes of Honduras and Jamaica to advance from the hex anyway. I would imagine that they (Honduras and Jamaica) are lamenting the May rankings being used at least as much as some here are. Nobody wants us in their semi-final group. And we will beat St. V&G home and away.

[CanadianSwede]

Even though Canada had a poor outing against South Africa, i believe that we can turn some heads come time for WCQ. Every team has its poor outings. Its about coming back and showing what you got. With the way we performed in the Gold Cup, I think that Honduras and Jamaica should be concerned about us. Sure maybe they have key players such as Suazo but one player doesn't make the team. The key is playing more matches and building chemistry. I have said it time and time again, chemistry is very important. I felt that in the match again SA that the players were unsure of eachother. Being the WCQ it would be foolish for Mitchell to try new players. Choose a group of players and stick with them.

As for the voyageurs supporters, we need to be well organized for these future games! You can count me in on any activities because no matter if Canada wins or lose I will follow.

I was also going to ask whether I could get some voyageur songs? I don't know any but i would like to learn.

Cheers

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by CanadianSwede

Even though Canada had a poor outing against South Africa, i believe that we can turn some heads come time for WCQ. Every team has its poor outings. Its about coming back and showing what you got. With the way we performed in the Gold Cup, I think that Honduras and Jamaica should be concerned about us. Sure maybe they have key players such as Suazo but one player doesn't make the team. The key is playing more matches and building chemistry. I have said it time and time again, chemistry is very important. I felt that in the match again SA that the players were unsure of eachother. Being the WCQ it would be foolish for Mitchell to try new players. Choose a group of players and stick with them.

As for the voyageurs supporters, we need to be well organized for these future games! You can count me in on any activities because no matter if Canada wins or lose I will follow.

I was also going to ask whether I could get some voyageur songs? I don't know any but i would like to learn.

Cheers

[wildguy27]

I think it is good they have a hard draw. They play better vs harder teams anyway.

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by kclee

Agree with your comments. I predict we will take SV & G convincingly and the semi will end up as follows:

W D L P

Mexico 3 2 1 11

Canada 3 1 2 10

Honduras 2 1 3 7

Jamaica 1 2 3 5

[jagum]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

Agreed. CONCACAF could have kept Mexico, USA and Costa Rica as the three seeds (based on winning the last automatic bids) and even added Trinidad to the highest pot (based on winning the 4th bid). Then continue with the draw, based on the August (post-Gold Cup) rankings. That would have been much more palatable and fair.

Also, why doesn't CONCACAF simply do away with the semi-final round and split the 12 teams into 2 groups of 6 (with Mexico and USA as seeds)? Group winners get automatic bids. Both second place finishers playoff for the third automatic bid. Loser of that playoff goes against the South American 5th. That would be a fun format to watch and we get more competitive games, like Europe and South America do.

[jagum]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

Agreed. CONCACAF could have kept Mexico, USA and Costa Rica as the three seeds (based on winning the last automatic bids) and even added Trinidad to the highest pot (based on winning the 4th bid). Then continue with the draw, based on the August (post-Gold Cup) rankings. That would have been much more palatable and fair.

Also, why doesn't CONCACAF simply do away with the semi-final round and split the 12 teams into 2 groups of 6 (with Mexico and USA as seeds)? Group winners get automatic bids. Both second place finishers playoff for the third automatic bid. Loser of that playoff goes against the South American 5th. That would be a fun format to watch and we get more competitive games, like Europe and South America do.

Something like this :

A)

Mexico

Costa Rica

Panama

Haiti

Jamaica

Canada

USA

Trinidad-Tob

Honduras

Cuba

Guatemala

Guyana

[JoeSoccerFan]

quote:

W D L P

Mexico 3 2 1 11

Canada 3 1 2 10

Honduras 2 1 3 7

Jamaica 1 2 3 5

Yup, the recipe is pretty simple...get points on the road, don't give up points at home. Stealing a point or two from Mexico would be a bonus.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

Interesting post Jeffrey.

How about the "other" Suazo. Maynor I think it is. Doesn't he play with McKenna at Koln?

You're right, he is there! I think i even pointed that out in one of the Canucks in Germany threads and forgot about it when discussing the big name Hondurans abroad.

Anyways, here's the BigSoccer page for Hondurans Abroad:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13289664#post13289664

Looks like Pavon has moved to San Jose and joining fellow Honduran Ivan Guerrero. Elvis Scott scored 12 goals in China, playing alongside Samuel Caballero a Honduran defender (former MLS and Serie A player).

Also, rumour that goalie Noel Valladeres is going to Fulham (i doubt it). And the link to an article about MLS MVP Luciano Emilio naturalizing (he played many years for Olimpia) and joining Honduras goes to another page. Sounds like they're deciding against adding him though?

[RS]

Carlos Pavon played for the LA Galaxy yesterday in Australia.