Stalteri - Actim's 6th best defender, 16th overall

[sstackho]

I was just perusing the official premierleague.com site and looked at the Actim Stats that provide a ranking for each player (over the season, I assume). Stalteri is rated 16th overall, and the 6th best defender.

As at: Tue 10 Jan 06 08:32


	Name 	Team 	Index Score

1 	frank lampard 	Chelsea 	5.13

2 	ruud van nistelrooy 	Manchester United 	4.24

3 	rio ferdinand 	Manchester United 	3.61

4 	william gallas 	Chelsea 	3.61

5 	wayne rooney 	Manchester United 	3.46

6 	steven gerrard 	Liverpool 	3.41

7 	john o'shea 	Manchester United 	3.29

8 	pascal chimbonda 	Wigan Athletic 	3.22

9 	john terry 	Chelsea 	3.21

10 	joe cole 	Chelsea 	3.21

11 	petr cech 	Chelsea 	3.16

12 	aiyegbeni yakubu 	Middlesbrough 	3.15

13 	edwin van der sar 	Manchester United 	3.14

14 	thierry henry 	Arsenal 	3.11

15 	jimmy bullard 	Wigan Athletic 	3.07

16 	paul stalteri 	Tottenham Hotspur 	3.01

The Actim Stats FAQ can be found here, and I've included a snippet below. Certainly, Stalteri's minutes have helped him in this regard.

quote:

How is the Actim Index calculated?

Complex mathematical formulae were devised to calculate the value of each player's contribution, match by match. In simple terms, the Actim Index comprises four calculations:

Calculation 1 - Assesses a player's contribution to a winning team, based on points won by the team when he appeared.

Calculation 2 - Assesses a player's performance in each game, by allocating points for actions that positively contribute to a winning performance such as shots, tackles, clearances and saves. It also takes points away from players for negative actions such as yellow/red cards and shots off target.

Calculation 3 - Allocates points based on time of the pitch.

Calculation 4 - Allocates points for goal scorers.

These stats wouldn't consider his FA Cup goal, which is capped here for those who haven't seen it.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

I was just perusing the official premierleague.com site and looked at the Actim Stats that provide a ranking for each player (over the season, I assume). Stalteri is rated 16th overall, and the 6th best defender.

As at: Tue 10 Jan 06 08:32


	Name 	Team 	Index Score

1 	frank lampard 	Chelsea 	5.13

2 	ruud van nistelrooy 	Manchester United 	4.24

3 	rio ferdinand 	Manchester United 	3.61

4 	william gallas 	Chelsea 	3.61

5 	wayne rooney 	Manchester United 	3.46

6 	steven gerrard 	Liverpool 	3.41

7 	john o'shea 	Manchester United 	3.29

8 	pascal chimbonda 	Wigan Athletic 	3.22

9 	john terry 	Chelsea 	3.21

10 	joe cole 	Chelsea 	3.21

11 	petr cech 	Chelsea 	3.16

12 	aiyegbeni yakubu 	Middlesbrough 	3.15

13 	edwin van der sar 	Manchester United 	3.14

14 	thierry henry 	Arsenal 	3.11

15 	jimmy bullard 	Wigan Athletic 	3.07

16 	paul stalteri 	Tottenham Hotspur 	3.01

The Actim Stats FAQ can be found here, and I've included a snippet below. Certainly, Stalteri's minutes have helped him in this regard.

These stats wouldn't consider his FA Cup goal, which is capped here for those who haven't seen it.

Thanks for the link.

db

[sKriSh]

Wow, to be ranked 16th in the EPL. Good for Stalteri!!!

[RealGooner]

The FA Cup goal against Leicester was sweet!

[Vancouver Fan]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

The FA Cup goal against Leicester was sweet!

It was the 2nd ranked goal for the past week on FSWC.

[Timotas]

Congrats to Paul! Incredible accomplishment to be put besides some of the most amazing players in the world.

[nolando]

OK..if nobody wants to stand up, then I'll be the goat then and say what many (especially Voyageur old boys) must surely be thinking...Why is it that a guy who is obviously this good (many of us could have wondered for years after only hearing of his accomplishments at Bremen- he is in fact the real deal) be so plainly average when playing for the Nats?

Yeah, yeah, Radzinski is easy to dismiss as having commitment issues but I, for one, have never questioned Stalteri's committment level. This guy comes to play and he comes to win - note the infamous bottle for a reference.

But what happens when this guys steps of the plane to play for Canada is that he looks like something a whole lot closer to the Toronto Lynx than Tottenham Hotspurs in my book. Is he destined to be an eternal mystery?

Maybe I am just too hard on him? Maybe he was played out of position by Holger (as a central attacking type mid) for so long that our early soured opinions of him (as a chronically underachieving ball-shanker) linger on as he continues to fully meet the billing. I really think that a guy who can play at this high of a level, jet leg or no jetleg, weak supporting cast or no supporting cast for that matter, should more often than not make at least the CONCACAF minnows look stupid beside him. He should make our rag-tag, Scandinavian-A League Traveling Roadshow look like pawns to his King.

Am I wrong to think that this guy should have played himself into the captain's armband for Canada this year instead of playing the club card while Canada floats on without any proper leadership? Maybe Jeffrey's right and we should take a longer look at his recent position with the Nats? Maybe, like with Radzinski, we should ignore the club tag and see this guy a just a "regular Joe done good"? Maybe he is an example of what is broken with our national program, or our mediocre expectations as a sports country, save for ice hockey?

Having rambled through all this, I find it hard not to feel like we have never really seen the true Stalteri in the red and white shirt, and I am beginning to wonder if we ever will. Sorry to rain on the party, but somebody had to say something.

[An Observer]

I think the reasons are pretty clear for why he is only "average" for us. First, he has rarely played for us for years so we have not seen him since he has improved over the last 3 to 4 years. And second, and most importantly, he is a solid unspectacular right back who many teams would love to have on their side but is not going to stand out even if he played for the Toronto Lynx. He is in the mode of Gary Neville and not Roberto Carlos. A great player to have on your team but the problem with Canada is we have many players like that (albeit not as good). What we need are more like Jonathan De Guzman...and that is what we lack. And finally, one player does not make a side (although a creative central midfielder can make a hugh difference as everything goes through him)...our problems are the people that play beside him in the centre or on the right wing.

[Cheeta]

I don't know. Thought he looked pretty damned good in Boston at the Gold Cup there a few years ago. And no we haven't seen much of him since then at all.

Could just be one of those comfort issues. It took him a while to settle in at Bremmen and it's taken him a while to realy settle in at 'Spurs. But I'd also argue he's not being fully utilised by his teammates at 'Spurs. For all of his running, and man does he do a lot, it seems it's being largely used as a space making decoy.

Can't count the number of times I've yelled "Wing!" during a Diesel touchline gallop only to see the ball carrier juke back down the middle into nowhere. Must be frustrating as Hell.

See plenty of him this summer I'm sure. Unless of course the CSA looses this opportunity to play some realy competitive friendlys.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

OK..if nobody wants to stand up, then I'll be the goat then and say what many (especially Voyageur old boys) must surely be thinking...Why is it that a guy who is obviously this good (many of us could have wondered for years after only hearing of his accomplishments at Bremen- he is in fact the real deal) be so plainly average when playing for the Nats?

I doubt many are thinking this. Who is he supposed to be average in comparison to? Stalteri excelled in the Gold Cup final in 2000 and has never looked "average" for Canada since. The only weak performance I can recall since then was in the opening game against Guatemala, and that can be put to down to our own craziness for playing that mid-week game on an evening in Vancouver which was about 3 or 4 in the morning by Paul's biological clock after having just been flown in from Germany.

[Gordon]

I think we must think of this in terms of 6th most effective rather than 6th best defender. Stalteri bring a lot to a team that makes a good top flight team better. But he is not such a tremendously talented player who can put a team on his shoulders and solve or obscure all their troubles which is perhaps why his club performances appear better than his Nat performances. The same expectation seems to be put on Julian DeGuzman and I think they are unrealistic. These player are good top flight players with a defensive orientation. They are undoubtedly among out top players and there is nobody close to knocking them out of the line-up. I dare say we could overcome all obstacles and qualify for the World Cup if we had players of comparable quality at every position. So I do not agree with the assumption that his national team performance has been less than his club performances generally - beyond perhaps a few issues with familiarity. But the impact of these performances gets lost in the big picture IMO. He does what he is asked professionally and competently. Like all players he makes mistakes, gets beaten etc. etc. but he is the best right back in the Confederation.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I doubt many are thinking this. Who is he supposed to be average in comparison to? Stalteri excelled in the Gold Cup final in 2000 and has never looked "average" for Canada since. The only weak performance I can recall since then was in the opening game against Guatemala, and that can be put to down to our own craziness for playing that mid-week game on an evening in Vancouver which was about 3 or 4 in the morning by Paul's biological clock after having just been flown in from Germany.

It is time for two different national teams.

Forget striking a balance. If we are playing, lets say, the weakest team in in our region we would not care too much about the team not being full strength. Players who would perhaps not get the call for the world cup final might get a chance to play.

I think it is time to look at the whole qualification process that way. Stalteri being ranked as high as he is only illustrates the point that "you can't fly 29 hours with no preperation and a biological 4am clock and play ANYBODY"

A domestic based team for qualification. If it makes it to the WC it may not be the same team that plays in it. If the Euro players can't commit to 5-8 prep games and the necessary camps then they are out for the process, but not out of the team.

Going in with the best team under our conditions, is not the same as going in with the best team on paper.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

It is time for two different national teams.

Forget striking a balance. If we are playing, lets say, the weakest team in in our region we would not care too much about the team not being full strength. Players who would perhaps not get the call for the world cup final might get a chance to play.

I think it is time to look at the whole qualification process that way. Stalteri being ranked as high as he is only illustrates the point that "you can't fly 29 hours with no preperation and a biological 4am clock and play ANYBODY"

A domestic based team for qualification. If it makes it to the WC it may not be the same team that plays in it. If the Euro players can't commit to 5-8 prep games and the necessary camps then they are out for the process, but not out of the team.

Going in with the best team under our conditions, is not the same as going in with the best team on paper.

While I can understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I fully agree with the sentiment.

Trying to qualify with a 'B' team will get us nowhere fast. We are not Brazil, our second-tier players aren't world beaters.

We need our A team through qualification, but what we also need is to be smarter about it next time. That means no Wednesday games in Vancouver (unless it's during the Euro off-season), and bringing in players as early as we are legally allowed by FIFA to call them. Yallop made a fatal mistake of allowing some players a couple of extra days with their clubs before joining the national team before certain games, and when you've only got a week to form some sort of cohesiveness, two extra days is a huge difference.

That said, I'm all for the B team approach in the N. American/Scandinavian off-season where friendlies are concerned. I think Frank is expanding our player pool by doing this, and the next step if figuring out how to integrate the standouts from these camps with the Euro players.

[john tv]

There is a saying preaching to the converted.

I don't have the time but I suggest very strongly that this board sets up a system ensuring that the media knows what we feel is important and news relating to Canadian soccer and our guys abroad.

This item about Stalteri is important and very motivating to all of us but why just us. All of Canada should know and that's why we have to help these guys to get it out. I have spoken about this several times going back I guess 2 to 3 years but this is a must!

Any suggestions?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

OK..if nobody wants to stand up, then I'll be the goat then and say what many (especially Voyageur old boys) must surely be thinking...Why is it that a guy who is obviously this good (many of us could have wondered for years after only hearing of his accomplishments at Bremen- he is in fact the real deal) be so plainly average when playing for the Nats?

Seldom is there a post on here that I so absolutely disagree with. I think both DeGuzman and Radz have underperformed with the MNT. Since he has been a starter with Bremen, Stalteri has consistently been one of our strongest if not the strongest player on the field in national team play. If there is one player who has not disappointed it is Stalteri. One can label his suspension in WCQ disappointing and maybe be disappointed in the amount of times he has played for us in the last year but when he has played he has by far been the strongest player on our back line. No he does not make Maradonna style end to end goal scoring rushes. He is a solid top level defender and has performed this roles excellently for the national team.

[nolando]

Lots of good points here, guys - good too see a lively discussion going on here...I especially like Gordon's comparison to "our" deGuzman and I agree with the thinking that a guy who might be the 10th or 11th best player talent wise ( a role player who fills a need)on a top club was never intended to be the best or 2nd best player on any team, now matter how meaningful the campaign (ie, Canadian WCQ). Disagree wholeheartedly that he has stood out as our best defender of the past while, save for a couple of great Gold Cup performances. Would bet that a blind observer of the past dozen Stalteri games for Canada would have trouble picking out the Premiership-quality player from the 2nd division fodder. And what I totally agree with is that he is a piece of the puzzle and nothing close to resembling a solution. And for a team that usually can bring only two or three proper WC calibre pieces to any particular qualifying campaign, that may not mean much at all. I dunno, maybe the Stalteris and the Julians should stay at their clubs until the most critical moments of qualifying becuase their impact seems negligible in terms of wins and losses anyways.

[bettermirror]

i agree with your last point Nolando.

I think we should appoint one person to liaise with the media. not with every media outlet, but possibly the Canadian Press? Anyway, any news to be forwarded from "the voyageurs" should go through approval of this board first ... any volunteers?

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

While I can understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I fully agree with the sentiment.

Trying to qualify with a 'B' team will get us nowhere fast. We are not Brazil, our second-tier players aren't world beaters.

We need our A team through qualification, but what we also need is to be smarter about it next time. That means no Wednesday games in Vancouver (unless it's during the Euro off-season), and bringing in players as early as we are legally allowed by FIFA to call them. Yallop made a fatal mistake of allowing some players a couple of extra days with their clubs before joining the national team before certain games, and when you've only got a week to form some sort of cohesiveness, two extra days is a huge difference.

That said, I'm all for the B team approach in the N. American/Scandinavian off-season where friendlies are concerned. I think Frank is expanding our player pool by doing this, and the next step if figuring out how to integrate the standouts from these camps with the Euro players.

But we are then struck with the same problem. If we want our players to be employed in Europe then we can't do what Guatemala did. They will lose their jobs and future players will not get jobs because of it. That much we definately know. It is in this sense we are not brazil, we are Canada and the rules don't protect our players as clearly.

This is our Catch-22. Our best players on the best teams means we can't make a team.

I am willing to bet with an MLS team and some more players in the MLS if we pull a Guatemala, 6-8 preperation games, we will be more effective (than both Can and Guat).

The problem is that the soccer risk is far less than the political risk. You think we crucify the CSA now if we don't qualify.....

[piltdownman]

Well I hate to say it but ... these stats are terrible. I say this as a die hard United fan, rio ferdinand at number three? What a joke. He has played like rubbish all year. He is one of the main reasons why united are doing so bad this year. Then on the other-hand thierry henry is ranked 14, I mean come on, I hate arsenal, but I have to admit he is the best players in the premiership right now. i don't know if they can win without him. So this ranking of 16th for stalteri doesn't really mean much for me.

[G-Man]

I think the reason why he looks average playing with Canada is that he's surrounded by crap players compared to what he's playing with the Hotspurs.

I doubt any other Canadian player could step up to that EPL level at this point like he has.

[analyst]

After his dismal performance on the weekend, Stalteri will drop quite a bit in the next rankings.

[Gian-Luca]

What "dismal" performance?

[sKriSh]

^He's talking about the red card that Stalteri got.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I think we must think of this in terms of 6th most effective rather than 6th best defender. Stalteri bring a lot to a team that makes a good top flight team better. But he is not such a tremendously talented player who can put a team on his shoulders and solve or obscure all their troubles which is perhaps why his club performances appear better than his Nat performances. The same expectation seems to be put on Julian DeGuzman and I think they are unrealistic. These player are good top flight players with a defensive orientation. They are undoubtedly among out top players and there is nobody close to knocking them out of the line-up. I dare say we could overcome all obstacles and qualify for the World Cup if we had players of comparable quality at every position. So I do not agree with the assumption that his national team performance has been less than his club performances generally - beyond perhaps a few issues with familiarity. But the impact of these performances gets lost in the big picture IMO. He does what he is asked professionally and competently. Like all players he makes mistakes, gets beaten etc. etc. but he is the best right back in the Confederation.

I agree with your points, Gordon.

Using an Academy Award analogy, the Diesel is a great supporting actor but not necessarily a man to carry a major movie in a leading role. With that in mind, I think he is an excellent right back and those of you who want him back in centre mid for MNT, I believe that idea would be wrong.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by sKriSh

^He's talking about the red card that Stalteri got.

Which we've already dismissed as being harsh if not incorrect, and in any case he was put into an impossible position by his teammate who had given away possession and gave Liverpool a 4 on 2 break. Hardly a "dismal" performance.