An Observer Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 On the Feyenoord Fan Site....it is reporting that Jonathan De Guzman (with another youth player Tim Vincken) are very likely to be promoted to the first team for next year. And it is possible that De Guzman may even be on the bench for tomorrow's match against Heerenveen. Big news if its true...wondering if a run out in the summer for our U-20s would increase his exposure, or whether now he would prefer to train with the first team in the hopes of establishing himself. For those who read dutch, here is the link http://feyenoord.netwerk.to/forums/HTML/forum8/286.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 It's looking more likely that he is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_n/a1394647443 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury It's looking more likely that he is lost. While I think you're right wouldn't it be something if he did go with the U20s. It would be a reversal of the Whore saga and a real shot in the arm for Canadian soccer just as the Whore was such a letdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck in Boston Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Let's say he chooses NL......I know he never promised to play for his country of birth, but do you suspect he will be the target of the same wrath as our favourite whipping boy from Calgary? If he is lost there is no blame for the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_n/a1394647443 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston Let's say he chooses NL......I know he never promised to play for his country of birth, but do you suspect he will be the target of the same wrath as our favourite whipping boy from Calgary? If he is lost there is no blame for the CSA. If he does, I'll be disappointed but won't bear the same ill will as to the Whore. JDG Jr never led us on or played four countries off against each other like the Whore. The CSA is blameless; they tried repeatedly. Although I am sure if he does go with Holland the same old anti-CSA guys will post their usual crap. What I think the CSA has to do is foster a sense of building something. Building a program into a contender and have the players buy into it. Holland really has nowhere to go. It's basically at the same level its been for years. Canada can only improve and the players need to feel the satisfaction that goes with it. As I posted before, Derek Possee (on Inside Soccer) said its only been the last few years where there's been a big improvement. The youth teams will contribute greatly to the sense of comraderie (sp) and togetherness that will carry on over the years. That is the big secret of our hockey teams. Many of the WC players have played together on youth teams and know each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston ....but do you suspect he will be the target of the same wrath as our favourite whipping boy from Calgary? Not from me. For three reasons: 1) He never promised anything 2) He was consistent throughout. Unlike that guy with Bayern, he never dithered about playing for one country and then another and ended playing a third option. The choice came down to how much publicity and fame that he garnered. I never thought that int'l soccer should be akin to free agency. 3) If he chooses Holland, he would choose a national side of a country that offered him employment and developed him as a soccer player. Similarly, I would have been more sympathic to the Bayern guy, had he (Hypothetically) ended up suiting up the German national side rather than a side in a country that did nothing for his development and whereby he seemingly never even resided in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Hate when that happens:D You take the time to respond with your thought on a topic only to see that, all the while you were typig your response, someone wieghs and beats you to the punch by minutes in with a post, with practically identical thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_n/a1394647443 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Hate when that happens:D You take the time to respond with your thought on a topic only to see that, all the while you were typig your response, someone wieghs and beats you to the punch by minutes in with a post, with practically identical thoughts. Not exactly the same. I left out your point 3 which I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I still think young JDG will choose Canada. Two reasons: 1) He and his brother leading Canada to a World Cup. The family seems close and I think it would be a very difficult choice for him not to choose Canada. Julian has already stated he would like to play with his brother for Canada. 2) With no disrepect to him, even if Jonathan chooses Holland, there is no guarantee he will ever play for them. Let's see, off the top of my head: Van Nistilrooy, Vander Vaart, Snjader, Van Persie, Robben, and those are only the better known players. Boneventure Kalou has already stated he will play for Holland and he is only 19 and already a Feyenoord first teamer. I am sure there are many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 I personally think that he is just keeping his options open at this point in time and not playing for Canada as that would render him ineligible for Holland (as I believe he is not eligilbe for Holland at this point in time and needs some more time before he can get a Dutch passport). I personally think he will not commit to Canada at the U20 level unless he becomes eligible for Holland so that he keeps that option open for himself. Or alternatively, once that option is available, he will commit to Holland and end all the speculation. As Ivan points out, there are quite a number of good young dutch players and he may also wait until he sees in a couple of years time whether he is in a position to be a starter or not. I am personally hoping that he becomes eligible for Holland, decides to play for the Canadian U20s, and becomes attached to the program. Unfortunately, I don't think its going to happen. In my mind, brother or no brother, if he was going to play for Canada, he would have done it already. By waiting, he is hoping to play for Holland so the only way he will commit to us is if his stock goes down (like Dunfield's did) and he is not good enough to make Holland. Either way, I don't think he is going to be the star of the Canadian national team in the future for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I agree... if he was going to choose Canada WHAT IS HE WAITING FOR? He is most likely waiting to become eligable for Holland. With respect to Hollands depth... exactly what position does JDG Jr. play? I thought it was mid-forward, leaving his main competition to be Robben and Van derVart....pretty stiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 He frequently operates on the left which is Robben's position...and we can only wish he is as good as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I'm confident he'll play for Canada for the same reason we saw the Whore suit up for England: family. Family is extremely influential and both his brother and father want him to play for Canada (I'm guessing his mum too). He won't go to Holland. It's just a question of when he does realize that he'll play for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I think it is a tough call for him. I can think of a couple of players at Barça who had two options and in the end really did not do a lot for their final choice. Jordi Cruyff played for Holland over Spain, and Thomas Christensen for Spain over Denmark. In the latter case, given his strong Bundesliga year two years back, he could very well have made the Danish nationals. Must be frustrating. Chosing Holland is very tricky, as you have to be lucky and good to get called up. I imagine that if he stays strong and has a real choice to make the senior Dutch nationals, he could go that way. If things don't pan out by a certain age, maybe he would opt for us. But I think this decision may be still 3 or four years away at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_n/a1394647443 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Damn I hate it when you have a long post and go to send it and you're not logged in and lose it. I'll see if I can remember it. Any howser how's aboot a debate about the pros and cons of playing for Canada. Pros for Canada Easier route to WC (Even though we blew it this year) Playing with his brother Opportunity to be the face of soccer in Canada (arguably the first) and the endorsement opportunities that might follow Guaranteed starter Pros for Holland Higher profile friendlies and tournaments More intl exposure Better teammates (for the time being) No long intl flights Cons for Holland Not guaranteed starter Lots of internal competition Will the endorsements be there? Would they be any different if he played for Canada? ie Mats Sundin has no problem getting endorsements in Canada That's all I can think of right now. I am sure there are more Pro Holland strengths but I prefer the more difficult task of finding pro Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I've been checking the Feyenoord rosters for the last 2 months thinking that sooner or later he might appear this season. As for whether he chooses Holland, well I obviously hope he picks Canada, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44 I agree... if he was going to choose Canada WHAT IS HE WAITING FOR? He is most likely waiting to become eligable for Holland. With respect to Hollands depth... exactly what position does JDG Jr. play? I thought it was mid-forward, leaving his main competition to be Robben and Van derVart....pretty stiff Let's not forget there also seems to be tremendous pressure on the young lad from Feyenoord itself not to play for Canada. As posted many times before, we all remember the Parker fiasco and Feyenoord, and this situation seems similar. Mitchell has tried to contact Jonathan through his father, who stated that Canada should go through the club. All attempts by Mitchell to speak with Feyenoord officials have gone unanswered. By the way, other attackers for Holland include Makaay, Hasselbaink, Vennegor of Hasselink and Kujt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 JdG the younger is not part of the starting lineup for Feyenoord today, nor is he on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Let's keep proper persective on this. Below is the Dutch U-20 side who played some friendlies recently in Holland. The bolded players are listed as part of their club's first team roster. Kenneth Vermeer (Ajax) Dwight Tiendalli (FC Utrecht ) Gianni Zuiverloon (Feyenoord) Frank van der Struijk (Willem II) Wouter Artz (Excelsior) Rick Kruys (FC Utrecht) Mark van den Boogaart (Feyenoord) Urby Emanuelson (Ajax) Tim Vincken (Feyenoord) Prince Rajcomar (FC Utrecht) Arjan Wisse (AZ) Henrico Drost (Heerenveen) Mark Otten (Excelsior) Steef Nieuwendaal (Willem II) Wout Brama (FC Twente) As far as I can tell, only Henrico Drost is an '87 of the first teamers at their club (also has a twin brother, Jeroen, equally rated but not called). But I might be wrong. More importantly, the players missing but hoped to be part of the Dutch side include: Ryan Babel (Ajax) (Club regular - already has one cap and one WCQ goal) Ron Vlaar and Haris Medunjanin (AZ) (were seen by AZ as needed for their EUFA Cup tie) Quincy Owusu-Abeyie (Arsenal) Collins John (Fulham) (Club regular and has two full caps) Hedwige Maduro (Ajax) (Club regular) If you ask me, it is not clear that De Guzman would even get called if he was eligible for Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Quite honestly I can't think of anything significant he's missed out on that would indicate an unwillingness to play for Canada in the future. Wasn't called out for WCQ or anything like that (as far as we know). So what has he been called for? A couple of friendlys. I think a lot of people would choose work commitments over going to a friendly. The man's cultivating a career and has to play nice with his employers. Show that he's commited to that development spot that they've commited to him. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at this point in his young career. Would hate for the fellow to pick up a knock or worse, look like he's shopping the goods around on the open market. Yeah, Feyenoord would love that. Don't sweat it. Let the Dutch train him up so he can earn his spot beside his brother on the National Team. And if you're going to pull him away from his training grounds do it for something significant. Like say, oh I don't know, the World Youth Cup? P.S. The CSA (if they really think it's a worthy cause) should pursue Guz the Younger. Call it kissing up or whatever. But make it know to the man and his family that they feel he's a special player with a special opportunity and you're just going to just keep bugging them until he realises it to. If Mitchel is half as smart as I think he is he should send a full Canada kit (trainers, boots, socks, parking pass and all) right to the man's locker at Feyenoord's training facilities with a wee note telling him when to show up for training this summer for Canada. I think it would be rude to return such a sincere gift and am sure father would have no part of that. And besides, he dosen't have to commit to anything. Just come and run about with the lads for a bit and see what you think. Where's the harm in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 In some ways I hope he's keeping his proverbial "options" open. If he's intimidated by Feyenoord, I'm worried he won't compete for Canada -much less Holland. Take your 30 guilder pay check, buy a coach ticket to Victoria station, and find a real club. I'm sure Ipswich would give him a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 The real question is, who is intimidated by Feyenoord? De Guzman or the CSA? Since when does anyone who wants something accept a "no answer" as an answer? I would hope someone at the CSA was, at least, persistant enough to get an answer. Or are we Canadians too polite to be a pest? I will also point out that David Edgar was not released by Newcastle for the most recent U-20 camp after having been named originally. quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone In some ways I hope he's keeping his proverbial "options" open. If he's intimidated by Feyenoord, I'm worried he won't compete for Canada -much less Holland. Take your 30 guilder pay check, buy a coach ticket to Victoria station, and find a real club. I'm sure Ipswich would give him a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Valid points, CO. Maybe Mitchell himself doesn't care enough one way or the other to make a stink about it. The mister didn't seem too impressed with Uccello's club affliation. Is de Guzman Jr. worth all the hype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted May 2, 2005 Author Share Posted May 2, 2005 I note the Vincken is on the side and he is the same person who it is said to be promoted to the first team of Feyenoord with De Guzman. And I believe he is a year older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone Valid points, CO. Maybe Mitchell himself doesn't care enough one way or the other to make a stink about it. The mister didn't seem too impressed with Uccello's club affliation. Is de Guzman Jr. worth all the hype? Chemistry is very important and he'd be integrating a new crucial player. Although a midfield of Peters, Gyaki, DG2 and de Jong would be sick. While Uccello is in Serie D and nowhere close to the AC Milan first team, DG2 has been promoted to the Feyenoord first team at 17 and captained the U19s at 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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