CanPL COUNTDOWN

[dyslexic nam]

On May 8, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Rheo said:

Ignore is a beautiful thing folks.  No need to feed the arrogant, condescending, sanctimonious, etc trolls.

Yeah, that now makes 2 currently active posters on my ignore list.  

[Robert]

8 hours ago, Initial B said:

^^ As an Ottawa supporter, I'm happy to have a local professional soccer team to support for the past 5 years. I have my doubts as to whether Canada can support a Div 1 soccer league, as does the Easton Report. However, the soccer landscape has changed significantly in Canada over the past 6 years since the report first saw light of day. I believe now is the time to try and start a new Canada-wide league since there are 3 vibrant MLS clubs in Canada right now that keep shedding Academy prospects who have no place to keep developing except L1O or PLSQ. Div 3 is a stepping stone, but the CPL would be a great bridge between the two. Provincial -> National -> North American steps.

Now let's say the CPL goes under in 5-10 years - most of the teams fold, but there will probably be 1-5 teams that could still keep playing if they had a league to join. Fortunately, they do since the USL has taken over the minor league soccer banner. In 5 years, they hope to have enough teams to regionalize into 3 conferences, Eastern, Central, and Western. Those surviving teams could jump ship to USL and the CSA really wouldn't have a leg to stand on to deny them the switch since they already tried their way. Travel from Edmonton to San Diego is a shorter distance than Edmonton to Toronto. Winnipeg to San Antonio is roughly equivalent to Vancouver. Regional Div 2 isn't a bad plan B.

Lots of good points in this post, and yes I agree that the Canadian soccer landscape has indeed changed significantly in recent years, which is a good thing, as from where it stood not too long ago, the only change possible would be an improvement.

Without a doubt, professional regional structures are more organized today then ever before, which is a great starting point, however, is this one change enough to progress to starting up a professional national structure at this time? Going from a couple of professional regional leagues to a professional national league is a whole new ball of wax. The difference between taking a club from Nova Scotia to British Columbia, as opposed to taking a club from Quebec City to Montreal, is roughly the equivalent of comparing 2017 Men's All-Star MVP Aaron Schneebi to 2017 Best FIFA Men's Player Cristiano Ronaldo. An exaggerated comparison maybe, but the point being is to illustrate the difference in expenses between operating a professional regional league club and a professional national league club. Would a player the caliber of a Schneebi be able to generate enough revenue to cover the difference in the expense column of an income statement?

I disagree that the CanPL would be a great bridge between the two. Provincial -> National -> North American steps. The gap between Schneebi and Ronaldo is too great to cover in one step. Initial excitement and interest may allow a few clubs to reach the break-even mark after the inaugural season, but I believe it is highly unlikely that all 8 clubs will still exist by the end of the second season, and once the rot sets in, its only a matter of time before the ship sinks.

[An Observer]

7 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, that now makes 2 currently active posters on my ignore list.  

Me too.  And it has made me to start to enjoy this board again. I would highly recommend it 

[Ansem]

I feel dumb for not having used that feature sooner. Much Much better now!
 

[Ivan]

Where is the feature?  Can't find it.

[Robert]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

I feel dumb for not having used that feature sooner. Much Much better now!
 

Hopefully, Rheo, dyslexic nam, An Observer, Ansem & Ivan are honorable Voyageurs, who are true to their word and after having publicly declared on this thread that they will in future ignore this thread, keep their word and therefore quit wasting space on this valuable thread.  Ha, ha. Remember, you said that you would ignore this thread and felt much better for doing so. Let's see if your words are worth anything.

In the meantime the unofficial CanPL Countdown tro the Countdown stands at:

DAYS

406

HOURS

14

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Where is the feature?  Can't find it.

You put your cursor on top of the trolls' name and you'll see the option to ignore the user.

[Robert]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You put your cursor on top of the trolls' name and you'll see the option to ignore the user.

I knew you couldn't do it. That only took 7 minutes. You're a bloody liar.

[Ansem]

It's fantastic, the troll keeps quoting me and I can't see his posts

[Robert]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's fantastic, the troll keeps quoting me and I can't see his posts

[Complete Homer]

20 hours ago, Initial B said:

^ as does the Easton Report. 

FYI, the author of the Easton Report now works for the league, and has reportedly been working with the league in some capacity for quite a while. I take the Easton Report as a list of challenges compiled in 2012 that the league has spent that last six years addressing more than a prediction of the league's II ability in 2019

Specifically, the lack of appropriate venues and owners willing to collectively withstand 10-20 million in annual losses split across 10 teams were key factors in the report that the league has patiently worked to overcime. 

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

FYI, the author of the Easton Report now works for the league, and has reportedly been working with the league in some capacity for quite a while. I take the Easton Report as a list of challenges compiled in 2012 that the league has spent that last six years addressing more than a prediction of the league's II ability in 2019

Specifically, the lack of appropriate venues and owners willing to collectively withstand 10-20 million in annual losses split across 10 teams were key factors in the report that the league has patiently worked to overcime. 

Wasn't the Easton Report looking at a national D2? If it did, yeah, that wouldn't fly.

[Robert]

14 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

FYI, the author of the Easton Report now works for the league, and has reportedly been working with the league in some capacity for quite a while. I take the Easton Report as a list of challenges compiled in 2012 that the league has spent that last six years addressing more than a prediction of the league's II ability in 2019

Specifically, the lack of appropriate venues and owners willing to collectively withstand 10-20 million in annual losses split across 10 teams were key factors in the report that the league has patiently worked to overcime. 

From your post above it appears that you are familiar with the author of the Easton Report, and that you are equally familiar with the details contained in that report. Would you being willing to share the entire contents of this report on this thread? 

[dyslexic nam]

59 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Where is the feature?  Can't find it.

I am on an iPad, so I have to tap on my account name in the top right, and them click "ignored users".  Then you just start typing the name and it will give you suggested accounts that you can add to the list.  Voila.

[ted]

Just now, Robert said:

From your post above it appears that you are familiar with the author of the Easton Report, and that you are equally familiar with the details contained in that report. Would you being willing to share the entire contents of this report on this thread? 

Why on earth would he do that? It has been discussed to death on this board already. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from repeating the same arguments again.

If you wish to review: 

 

[Robert]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

I am on an iPad, so I have to tap on my account name in the top right, and them click "ignored users".  Then you just start typing the name and it will give you suggested accounts that you can add to the list.  Voila.

Sorry to bother you. It won't happen again. Here's the link to the Easton Report for those interested:

http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/658_SDRCC_13-0194.pdf

 

[Dominic94]

Will the league’s teams actually lose 10-20M though ?

[Complete Homer]

24 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Wasn't the Easton Report looking at a national D2? If it did, yeah, that wouldn't fly.

It examined several possibilities. A national league, semi-pro leagues, etc. While the report was initially about a national D2 league, I would say that the distinction is immaterial when talking about the viability of any national professional league. It's not like we have any set standards in place

A common reason people bring up the Easton Report is to try to discredit the idea that CPL has objectively evaluated the market, but it is a little absurd to use a 6 year old report by a consultant who is now, clearly, on board with CPL as he is CPL's VP of Soccer Operations to make that point. As evidenced by probably 600 pages of threads, some things have changed since 2012

It's also odd that people keep using it as a reason that we should be focusing on starting regional leagues instead...that has already occurred to a degree in response to the report (L1O, PLSQ) and the responsibility has been delegated to the provincial bodies. 

23 minutes ago, Robert said:

From your post above it appears that you are familiar with the author of the Easton Report, and that you are equally familiar with the details contained in that report. Would you being willing to share the entire contents of this report on this thread? 

It is publicly available

https://www.canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-releases-report-on-division-ii-soccer-viability-in-canada-p153255

9 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Will the league’s teams actually lose 10-20M though ?

Who knows. What is important is that they appear to have garnered the types of owners needed to withstand reasonably predictable losses in the medium term. Note that that figure isn't 10-20M per team, it was a coarse estimate on the losses expected league wide annually. It's not a very useful figure since it was probably calculated off of assumptions that don't necessarily match the reality of CPL today

[mpg_29]

26 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Who knows. What is important is that they appear to have garnered the types of owners needed to withstand reasonably predictable losses in the medium term. Note that that figure isn't 10-20M per team, it was a coarse estimate on the losses expected league wide annually. It's not a very useful figure since it was probably calculated off of assumptions that don't necessarily match the reality of CPL today

If the assumption was $1-2M losses per team per year then it isn't totally far fetched now. My guess is the difference now is they have just managed to get owners that have "accepted" that as part of starting a league.

They talk about other sources of revenue to stem off the dependence on ticket revenue but the only thing I can see getting this league to break even is a decent TV deal. I was reading about how the CFL turned it's finances around the last decade or so and the recent TV deals were a significant aspect.

Even just an $8M per year TV deal would be huge for stability.

[Complete Homer]

20 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

If the assumption was $1-2M losses per team per year then it isn't totally far fetched now. My guess is the difference now is they have just managed to get owners that have "accepted" that as part of starting a league.

They talk about other sources of revenue to stem off the dependence on ticket revenue but the only thing I can see getting this league to break even is a decent TV deal. I was reading about how the CFL turned it's finances around the last decade or so and the recent TV deals were a significant aspect.

Even just an $8M per year TV deal would be huge for stability.

Yeah, not saying it will be wildly different, but I thought it would be hypocritical to say that a 6 year old report doesn't take the shifting landscape into account while simultaneously hanging my hat on the 10-20M figure

[BuzzAndSting]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

Hopefully, Rheo, dyslexic nam, An Observer, Ansem & Ivan are honorable Voyageurs, who are true to their word and after having publicly declared on this thread that they will in future ignore this thread, keep their word and therefore quit wasting space on this valuable thread.  Ha, ha. Remember, you said that you would ignore this thread and felt much better for doing so. Let's see if your words are worth anything.

In the meantime the unofficial CanPL Countdown tro the Countdown stands at:

DAYS

406

HOURS

14

They’re not at all valuable when you create so many ridiculous ones like this.

[Alex D]

I keep forgetting this isn't a thread about the actual countdown that ends today and it is instead very very stupid. 

Bad Robert, Bad!

[Robert]

I remember going to see the Calgary Mustangs play at Mewata Stadium. It was my first Canadian Professional Soccer League match. The CPSL existed for 73 days before it folded.

1983 : For the first time in Canadian soccer history, a nationwide championship is set up. Six teams begin the first... and the last season of a competition that demands lots of money and energy but gives few results.

1983	P	W	L	D	Gf	Ga	Pts
1. Edmonton Eagles	10	7	0	3	24	6	17
2. Hamilton Steelers	12	3	4	5	20	20	11
3. Inter Montréal	7	4	2	1	12	7	9
4. Mississauga Croatia	12	4	1	7	15	27	9
5. Calgary Mustangs	11	2	6	3	12	20	7
6. Toronto National	6	2	3	1	9	12	5

The unofficial CanPL Countdown to the CanPL Countdown stands at:

DAYS

403

HOURS

8

 

[LAK]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

I remember going to see the Calgary Mustangs play at Mewata Stadium. It was my first Canadian Professional Soccer League match. The CPSL existed for 73 days before it folded.

1983 : For the first time in Canadian soccer history, a nationwide championship is set up. Six teams begin the first... and the last season of a competition that demands lots of money and energy but gives few results.

1983	P	W	L	D	Gf	Ga	Pts
1. Edmonton Eagles	10	7	0	3	24	6	17
2. Hamilton Steelers	12	3	4	5	20	20	11
3. Inter Montréal	7	4	2	1	12	7	9
4. Mississauga Croatia	12	4	1	7	15	27	9
5. Calgary Mustangs	11	2	6	3	12	20	7
6. Toronto National	6	2	3	1	9	12	5

The unofficial CanPL Countdown to the CanPL Countdown stands at:

DAYS

403

HOURS

8

 

Thanks for the well thought out constructive post, it really adds to the discussion. 

Oh wait, that was for something else.

[Robert]

21 hours ago, LAK said:

Thanks for the well thought out constructive post, it really adds to the discussion. 

Oh wait, that was for something else.

My mistake. I keep forgetting who I'm addressing. The point I was trying to make with the 1983 CPSL lasting only 73 days before folding was the fact that a professional national soccer league needs more than 6 clubs to be financial viable. You need to play more games to make enough money to cover the expenses. Starting a national professional soccer league with only 8 clubs is a sure-fire recipe for failure!