All time best Canadian player (with poll!)

[Marc]

This is tough.

Forrest played in the Premier League consistently for years, but with a lower tier team while the EPL was of middling quality.  A big move never materialized and his career really waned at West Ham.

DeRosario? Big fish small pond.  McKenna had a solid career both professionally and for the Nats.  I don't find his Honduras halftime speech to be so offensive as others do.

Samuel?  Meh. I don't know if we can say our best player is the one that spent most of his career in second division Netherlands and Norway.

DeVos never played in the top flight. He didn't even play for the best teams in the second division. But he showed up.  All the time.

Bunbury is a sentimental favourite of mine but really only had two or three good years at Maritimo sandwiched by CSL, nothing much in England or MLS.

Radz is probably the best player we've had, but his move to Fulham was a loser and he spent large amounts of time out of the National team.

Stalteri was a rock. I think he'd be the clear winner if it weren't for his injury plagued back end at Gladbach.

Mitchell was dominant but my recollections are minimal. De Guzman had a solid pro career and played for us for ever.

Hutchinson has played the longest at the highest level, but even then in iffy leagues.

And Ricketts. Well, who voted for him?

So I'd say it's between De Guz, Stalteri, and Hutch.

[BrennanFan]

Jim Brennan, the first ever Canadian born outfield player to play in the Prem, deserves consideration.

Radzinski turned his back on us in his prime, when our squad was weak and we needed him most.  I appreciate him but he cannot be our best ever.

Forrest, Bunbury, Mitchell, Hutchinson, deGuzman - all these guys are slightly ahead of the pack.  Gotta give the edge to Forrest for the GC.  

 

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Jim Brennan, the first ever Canadian born outfield player to play in the Prem, deserves consideration.

Radzinski turned his back on us in his prime, when our squad was weak and we needed him most.  I appreciate him but he cannot be our best ever.

Forrest, Bunbury, Mitchell, Hutchinson, deGuzman - all these guys are slightly ahead of the pack.  Gotta give the edge to Forrest for the GC.  

Five years ago this thread would have voted De Guzman like it is voting Hutch now. He was player of the year at Deportivo, had a long career, with top teams, and was a key player for us, probably our best, over the first 6-8 years he was with us. He was adored. I think, on a good day, he was better than Hutch, and in fact he played at a much higher club level to boot. He is probably the Canadian who has made the most money in his career, maybe Hutch now is getting closer.

Neither can score and that is a point against both. 

Radz was spectacular, but in flashes. DeRo really should have headed off to Europe at one point, was his rep dumb or something? That would have solidified his legacy. Stalteri was a very competent player, very mature and poised, and intelligent on the pitch. If we had 5 Stalteris between two decent strikers, two centre backs and a keeper, we'd make the Hex (EDIT: yes, even playing with 10 men!!).

[matty]

I kind of want to do an in depth version of this. People ranking their top 10 (both men and women) on a tiered ballot to create an essential top Canadian player list as voted by fans. Pretty sure it could get the support of one of the Canadian soccer news sites. Who would be game?

[Marc]

Stalteri will never get the credit he deserves since he was not a flashy midfielder or striker.  I think he's our most professionally accomplished player in generations.

[Cheeta]

Kinda fun no?

Radz over Hutch by a whisker.  As mentioned, the strikers get all the glory but still he had a half dozen years there where he was an asset to clubs playing some pretty damned high level football and in the 1st team rotation on clubs with player budgets that where even back then light years bigger than all Canadian MLS clubs combined are today.  Designated players included, and no other Canadian can lay claim to that.  (Well, Hutch if you want to argue details).  Man was handicapped by a sting of niggly injuries in his prime to-boot but that's the life of a grey hound.

Quite a few players on that list who had some stupid good seasons but didn't get to that next level for a number of reasons.  Diesel and Forrest to be sure, I'd say Brennan teased for a while to.

Just want to say I remember Randy Samuel being an absolute beast for Canada.  The least graceful player to ever dance upon the green grace of a footie pitch (and that's saying a lot for Canada) but always doing the job.  Never seen him play any club football though so ....

[matty]

12 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

The trouble is, the vote will get distorted by clowns who cast disingenuous votes because they have some conceited idea it will ruffle feathers!

I think it could be relatively controlled if we put the right rules in place like a player must have at least 10 senior caps with Canada. It would rule out a lot of youngsters (like James and Hamilton) and folks who never capped for Canada at the senior level (like Begovic and Leroux). You could also have a rule that a player must appear on a minimum of 3 ballots or score #1 on a ballot to appear on the final list.

[rkomar]

53 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

The trouble is, the vote will get distorted by clowns who cast disingenuous votes because they have some conceited idea it will "ruffle feathers"!

What about clowns who want to vote for Paul Peschisolido because of the way Vic Rauter would shout/sing his name when he scored?  He wasn't our greatest, but I would have loved it if he became that.

[matthew]

The problem with the 10-cap rule is that between 1928 and 1968 we played four official matches. Which rules out the likes of Kennaway, Errol Crossan and Whitey McDonald (who didn’t get a Canadian cap because we didn’t play during his career). None of them would be in my XI, but they would probably all be in my 22. 

 

In any event, my best-XI would be: Forrest; Lenarduzzi, Samuel, DeVos, Wilson; Stalteri, Hutchinson, DeGuzman, DeRosario; Radzinski, Mitchell.

 

cheers,

matthew

[Grizzly]

I am old enough (unfortunately) to have seen and remember the long time retired players on the list but still went for Hutch. A few guys like JDG and Stalteri played in better leagues but they were more role players even if very high level role players (Imhof also played over 50 First Bundesliga matches but I doubt many would consider him for best Canadian although he had a good overall career). The only other player who was a dominant player at a good club was Radzinski but I think Hutch is just more consistent and Radz only really had one really good year in the EPL at Everton. Hutch has been good for Canada and good at every level he has played. Forest was really great for Canada but never seemed to be quite as good at club level (the opposite of many Canadians who never play as well for the national team as for their clubs) though it is possible my memory is biased towards the latter years when he was mostly a back up than towards the early years with Ipswich. 

[jpg75]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I enjoyed Mr. Rauter's contribution to the MLS playoffs. Something happened in the goalmouth and he knew that something had happened he just didn't know what. And I guess he feels he gets paid to say something so he says "Ohhhhhhhhhh"! Canadian football commentary at its very best!

[BearcatSA]

Any Canadian player who has been able to forge a pro career in Europe in this highly competitive current era (where quality players come from all over the world competing for places at clubs), either as a role player or a significant contributor in a key position, earns my respect, so kudos to all of them.  One of the reasons I chose Hutchinson is because I think he has really aged well as a player:  I honestly believe he's a better player now at 33 than he was a couple of years ago.  He's still on top of his game, which I couldn't say the same for a couple of people mentioned on this list at the same age.  Forrest gets my second place vote, Radzinski third.

[David C.]

20 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Any Canadian player who has been able to forge a pro career in Europe in this highly competitive current era (where quality players come from all over the world competing for places at clubs), either as a role player or a significant contributor in a key position, earns my respect, so kudos to all of them.

Absolutely!!!!

[matty]

10 hours ago, matthew said:

The problem with the 10-cap rule is that between 1928 and 1968 we played four official matches. Which rules out the likes of Kennaway, Errol Crossan and Whitey McDonald (who didn’t get a Canadian cap because we didn’t play during his career). None of them would be in my XI, but they would probably all be in my 22. 

 

In any event, my best-XI would be: Forrest; Lenarduzzi, Samuel, DeVos, Wilson; Stalteri, Hutchinson, DeGuzman, DeRosario; Radzinski, Mitchell.

 

cheers,

matthew

You could create a pre1970 that allows for players from 1900-1970 with a cap to be listed. While some guys like mcdonald will lose out i feel it's only fair.

[Bertuzzi44]

Really quite surprised JDG is sitting at 1 vote after 84 votes cast.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 hours ago, Grizzly said:

I am old enough (unfortunately) to have seen and remember the long time retired players on the list but still went for Hutch. A few guys like JDG and Stalteri played in better leagues but they were more role players even if very high level role players (Imhof also played over 50 First Bundesliga matches but I doubt many would consider him for best Canadian although he had a good overall career). The only other player who was a dominant player at a good club was Radzinski but I think Hutch is just more consistent and Radz only really had one really good year in the EPL at Everton. Hutch has been good for Canada and good at every level he has played. Forest was really great for Canada but never seemed to be quite as good at club level (the opposite of many Canadians who never play as well for the national team as for their clubs) though it is possible my memory is biased towards the latter years when he was mostly a back up than towards the early years with Ipswich. 

I think if you watch Besiktas, as I have this Champions for example, you'll find that Hutch is 100% a role player. He never breaks open a game and is not what you would call a standout, he is one of the solid starters for the Turkish champ. For us, as well, he has never broken open a game or changed one, not that I can recall. 

JDG at Deportivo, in a much higher league, was similar, playing mostly defensively and covering ground and playing a role, in some good years mid-table. I don't really grasp the argument about how different they are, in terms of legacy, not specific style. And for Canada, both have left a pretty similar mark. 

[matty]

so I got the ok to do this poll pro

here's what i'm thinking

everyone sends me a ballot (as a private message) between now and Jan 15th.

each ballot must be a ranked top 10

select between both the men's and women's teams

a first place ranking is 10 points, second is 9, third is 8, etc.

players should be judged on their careers with both club and country

eligible players

men (1970-) must have a minimum of 10 senior caps with canada

women (1986-) due to how frequent their games are they must have 25 caps at the senior level with canada

men from 1900-1970 (1985 for women) must have at least 1 game with a canadian national team

no single team is eligible with the exception of the 1904 olympic team (galt fc)

 

who's game?

[Grizzly]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think if you watch Besiktas, as I have this Champions for example, you'll find that Hutch is 100% a role player. He never breaks open a game and is not what you would call a standout, he is one of the solid starters for the Turkish champ. For us, as well, he has never broken open a game or changed one, not that I can recall. 

JDG at Deportivo, in a much higher league, was similar, playing mostly defensively and covering ground and playing a role, in some good years mid-table. I don't really grasp the argument about how different they are, in terms of legacy, not specific style. And for Canada, both have left a pretty similar mark. 

Hutch is a lot more important in bringing the ball forward at Besiktas than JDG was at Deportivo. A lot of the play with Besiktas goes through Hutch even if he is not necessarily the guy making the final pass or taking the shot, JDG was employed more in a destroyer role, win the ball back and short pass to a teammate. There is nothing wrong with that especially at a high level but it doesn't convince me to call such a player our best ever. JDG was doing some similar stuff to Hutch at Hannover but once he got to Deportivo he got stuck in his role and really didn't develop other parts of his game the way he might have. We saw flashes of offensive ability at times with JDG on the national team but not very consistently. Hutch may not have been the creative number 10 we have needed for so long on the national team but he has consistently been our best player on the ball, best passer and most able at controlling play while also being defensively solid. The unfortunate thing is with the national team both were asked to play more offensive roles than they were suited to because we lacked top level offensive midfielders but for the most part Hutch did a better job of this than JDG though JDG did have that one great Gold Cup. It seems like the history of the men's national team is one of having 2 good midfielders sometimes playing more offensively than ideal paired with 2 mediocre ones who we put in defensive roles. If we could ever get a player pool with 4 or 5 good midfielders at the same time including some offensively gifted ones than we might have a real competitive team. 

[Havoc88]

^ my recollection of the '14 qualifying was without Hutch we had no hope. I honestly don't ever remember thinking if JDG wasn't available we were sunk - maybe in '07. Panama at home was completely broken open by Hutch, as well, even though it was a dire 0-0 v Honduras, everything was going through hime that game in the final third - IIRC he unlocked DeRo beautifully only for it to be shot over the bar.

I would add, in terms of legacy/all-time/consistency (which for me counts) that at this point in both their careers, Hutch is captaining a title-winning side playing in the Champions League, whilst JDG was on relegation-fighting teams in Greece or 2.Bundesliga.

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, Grizzly said:

Hutch is a lot more important in bringing the ball forward at Besiktas than JDG was at Deportivo. A lot of the play with Besiktas goes through Hutch even if he is not necessarily the guy making the final pass or taking the shot, JDG was employed more in a destroyer role, win the ball back and short pass to a teammate. There is nothing wrong with that especially at a high level but it doesn't convince me to call such a player our best ever. JDG was doing some similar stuff to Hutch at Hannover but once he got to Deportivo he got stuck in his role and really didn't develop other parts of his game the way he might have. We saw flashes of offensive ability at times with JDG on the national team but not very consistently. Hutch may not have been the creative number 10 we have needed for so long on the national team but he has consistently been our best player on the ball, best passer and most able at controlling play while also being defensively solid. The unfortunate thing is with the national team both were asked to play more offensive roles than they were suited to because we lacked top level offensive midfielders but for the most part Hutch did a better job of this than JDG though JDG did have that one great Gold Cup. It seems like the history of the men's national team is one of having 2 good midfielders sometimes playing more offensively than ideal paired with 2 mediocre ones who we put in defensive roles. If we could ever get a player pool with 4 or 5 good midfielders at the same time including some offensively gifted ones than we might have a real competitive team. 

It's a fair assessment, but neither can be considered to be game-breakers. For example, we all know JDG when getting forward would punt over top of goal, his shooting was weak. But Hutch, who is forward way more, and you'd think should compare with a kind of player with the physical qualities to score, like Yaya Touré, does not score either, hardly ever. So he's more offensive in position and maybe passing, but less definitive, and Julian was more defensive and better defending--and there you could argue played the role better. 

As long as I have been following Canada we have only provided scoring potential from a striker, an attacker coming in from the wing, or a heading defender. We have never as I recall had a really efficient mid able to come in from in behind and do damage, a real marauder. 

For me neither is champion material, they are fine players, that is all. Which is why I voted for Forrest.

[Toje]

1997/98 Cup Winners Cup

Red Star Belgrade 1 Germinal Ekeren 1

-- Goal by Radzinski in the 67th minute