Quebec Soccer Federation says "No" to turbans when the CSA says "Yes".

[JohnnyCanuck]

I'm as far away from the situation as can be in Canada, yet probably (just a guess) am sitting in the highest Sikh-Canadian per capita populace in Canada, living here in Vancouver- I have played with guys at the Mens level that have worn patkas, I've even played a game against a guy with a full blown turban...never have I ever seen any incidents, nor have I ever thought it could be perceived as dangerous. I've seen officials ask guys to remove earrings, chains, watches, braces that had sharp or metal things on them, but never a hat- I've seen guys play with Toques on extremely cold days...

The question about what to do is simple: The Right Thing.

The Quebec "Culture protectors" are behaving in an exclusionist manner here with respect to baptized Sikh's, excluding them from the community... If Canada as a whole said you cannot speak French on a Soccer Field (just as outlandish as saying wearing a patka is a safety issue IMHO) the French would be alienated around Canada and most specifically in Quebec of course. Ironic Innit? Isn't this essentially what they're worried about with their laws about French wording and banning Italian Words from Menu's etc?? The PQ Leaders and QSF folk need to de-politicize this issue and remove their tinfoil hats for a second.

I hope most importantly that the QSF comes off their ban, replaces the Neanderthals that made this decision and gets on with life. Barring that I hope most for the CSA to stick to their Ban of the QSF, to not allow the QSF Provincial Winners to compete at Provincials and to move Provincials to be hosted in QC to other provinces. If you take away the rights of the players, clubs and coaches to compete at Nationals you will have internal pressure inside the QSF to get their crap together. Choke the life out of the QSF by removing CSA and FIFA officials etc etc etc. Sanction the bloody hell out of them. I'd also like to see the Supporters of the Impact do some TIFO or all wear turbans or patkas to the next home game... I'd be thrilled to see a demonstration by the Supporters groups. I'd also like to see more of the youth teams and clubs showing signs of support by wearing headscarves etc.

More than anything else I'm happy that people that matter, either politically or culturally in Canada and with respect to Quebec have taken a stance on it...like them or not it's good to see responses from politico's like Justin Trudeau to culturally important people like David McMillan (Co-Owner of Joe Beef and Quebec Promoting Anthony Bourdain friend) making their thoughts known.

It's also nice to see a groundswell on twitter etc with a simple search of #qsf, how many people have said they are boycotting QSF Sponsors products like Saputo and CoucheTard

[ag futbol]

So, I repeat my question : What CSA is going to do now it has imposed the highest sanction it could, the death penalty, without success ?

Makes you think about how they played this one... You could argue the CSA could have voiced their disapproval but stayed hands off, while hoping the media would ratchet up the pressure and without any federalist boogyman the QSF just hold themselves to the fire. But on the other hand, that could have happened and then the association could have been portrayed as lazy and drawn in anyway.

We'll see how the whole thing goes. But the whole issue is it's taken on a non-sport related tilt at this point so the end result will be rather convoluted and extends well beyond the type of circumstances the CSA will have to deal with when making other decisions.

[JohnnyCanuck]

So, I repeat my question : What CSA is going to do now it has imposed the highest sanction it could, the death penalty, without success ?

Nothing-not yet anyways...continue the sanctions. The internal pressure won't fully ratchet up to a full boil till most important things are unattainable, like hosting and attending nationals by Provincials Winners...

[JohnnyCanuck]

Haha, on the lighter side (stolen from a post on the same topic at another Football Forum)

Can't we all just get along?

[TFC07]

I hope most importantly that the QSF comes off their ban, replaces the Neanderthals that made this decision and gets on with life. Barring that I hope most for the CSA to stick to their Ban of the QSF, to not allow the QSF Provincial Winners to compete at Provincials and to move Provincials to be hosted in QC to other provinces. If you take away the rights of the players, clubs and coaches to compete at Nationals you will have internal pressure inside the QSF to get their crap together. Choke the life out of the QSF by removing CSA and FIFA officials etc etc etc. Sanction the bloody hell out of them. I'd also like to see the Supporters of the Impact do some TIFO or all wear turbans or patkas to the next home game... I'd be thrilled to see a demonstration by the Supporters groups. I'd also like to see more of the youth teams and clubs showing signs of support by wearing headscarves etc.

You should read this article: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Brossard+team+dons+turbans+solidarity/8505897/story.html

[elmateo]

The ROC is just as bigoted as the bigots in Quebec, it just so happens on this particular issue the political alignment is playing for their different self interests. The Conservative Party is using this as a chance to show how much they care for their new found 'immigrant community' voters (despite cutting healthcare to refugee claimants and increasing the number of foreign temporary workers who have limited rights), which is a few twitter comments and sound bites on the TV - really simple for them. It also fits their narrative of Quebec = evil and We the CPC will save you! (bull****). Liberal Party wants to show its STRONG FEDERALIST COLOURS and their unique 'abilities' to talk across the "great divide", all the while trying to massage the ongoing existence of a great divide to show why they should be relevant at all. NDP has been silent, I wonder why ... oh that's right principles be damned! they have a fantasy government to pretend to run. PQ, discussed is playing to sovereignty base. Bigots come out in other parts of Canada when other political issues align to give them prominence too. This has become a **** show and the QSF, who thought they would be really smart so they could carve out a bit of a fiefdom for their own petty interests against the CSA reforms, need to be held accountable. But I think everyone else needs to work their best to cut the "great divide" politics out because that is not the issue as much as any political party wants. Ignore the "sovereignty" crowd who cares nothing about soccer. Ignore the ROC is better crowd because its smug and bull****. In terms of racism, the "ROC" has the exact same crowd of disgusting crap and you sometimes do even hear it at BMO: "show your passport" chant etc.. In terms of petty politics, a little while back the CSA almost lost certification from FIFA because of stuff happening in Alberta.

[JohnnyCanuck]

You should read this article: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Brossard+team+dons+turbans+solidarity/8505897/story.html

I saw that TFC07, and that's what I was referring to, let's get all the kids wearing them!

[Trillium]

Nothing-not yet anyways...continue the sanctions. The internal pressure won't fully ratchet up to a full boil till most important things are unattainable, like hosting and attending nationals by Provincials Winners...

Do you think Quebec cares if it hosts or not ?

It can make bigger deal out of a provincial finals with PQ support then any Nationals that draws 20 people in the stands as organized by the CSA.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Trillium, they will lose sponsor funding by not hosting, if the ban continues you will see certain companies potentially pulling out of sponsorship of the QSF.

Communities hosting finals will suffer business losses in Hotels and Pubs and Eateries due to not having 9-11 other Provinces/Territories there... etc etc etc

[narduch]

The CSA should take the Women's World cup away from Montreal if this persists.

[TFC07]

The CSA should take the Women's World cup away from Montreal if this persists.

If this goes on until summer, then yes I would support CSA to take WWC and Under 20 WWC games away from Quebec put those games in Toronto (screw PAN AM games) and Hamilton (for Under 20 WWC games)

[Trillium]

Trillium, they will lose sponsor funding by not hosting, if the ban continues you will see certain companies potentially pulling out of sponsorship of the QSF.

Communities hosting finals will suffer business losses in Hotels and Pubs and Eateries due to not having 9-11 other Provinces/Territories there... etc etc etc

Any sponsor funding for hosting finals is to CSA, the only loss is what teams and parents spend when going to nationals for hotels etc. the reality is that is not serious money ten teams X 20 players equals one hundred hotel rooms for perhaps a week, not enough to make anyone care for the economic impact.

Tournament hosts do not make money on National All Stars or club championships, if anyone who has run an event can say with all honesty we made 10k profit running a CSA national event with money going to local coffers I would be shocked it just does not happen.

The events run with 500k from player fees the six bucks each player pays to the CSA for national programs, Quebec can keep its six dollars time 186K member ( 1.12 Million ) and be very much ahead economically by not paying the CSA when suspended.

Will Quebec players playing outside the FIFA house never get chance to play professional ? Not true as most countries do not register all players from youth as we do in Canada.

Will Senior players be impacted ? Not really they can win a Quebec title and feel satisfied.

The CSA ban has huge downsides from a business perspective to the CSA unless it intends to urge community clubs, i.e. non-professional to affliated directly with the CSA to be in the house of FIFA, to do that they have to get the provinces on side.... think Ontario and BC and Alberta are about to shut down their operations and let the CSA collect all player fees and registrations directly ?

If that happens good on the CSA thats when real reform will happen, but I doubt any province will sign on to ending itself to uphold a CSA sanction of Quebec.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm going to write a letter to FIFA asking them to back the CSA and, if necesary, retire the Impact's licence to play in MLS.

Making up bogus reasons to stop kids from playing a game is disgraceful and deserves to be called scum. And scum has a price.

[Unnamed Trialist]

And a letter to Concacaf asking them to ban Impact from that Champions league. Only way to get the scum to wake up.

[elmateo]

Impact the MLS team is registered through the CSA not the QSF. The World Cup is organized by the CSA; what would happen is that anyone double dipping with the rogue QSF would be suspended from the CSA. Montreal -as a city- is not going to be suspended. Officials and such can be. It would be interesting, if this continues, to see if youth leagues etc. drop the QSF and directly affiliate with the CSA but that is something into the future. I'd prefer the QSF to act responsibly and follow the CSA's rulings. But it doesn't help Sikh kids who want to play soccer to start creating a vindictive list of punishments that are far beyond the scope of the suspension. MLS Impact = CSA not QSF. World Cup in Montreal = CSA not QSF.

[Trillium]

Are you trying to use logic with Unamed Trialist and the others who want to ban Impact to punish the QSF ?

[TFC07]

It's worth nothing that 25% of QSF revenue comes from CSA. Now that QSF is suspended, they have lost about $1.5 million alone. QSF sponsors contribute about $500,000 only. So sponsorship dollars isn't that big as we expect it to be.

So if clubs ditch QSF and affiliate with CSA (or form their own organization and get CSA approval), then QSF is done. That's where most of their money comes from. It will only take couple of big clubs to ditch QSF and really end QSF.

[Trillium]

It's worth nothing that 25% of QSF revenue comes from CSA. Now that QSF is suspended, they have lost about $1.5 million alone. QSF sponsors contribute about $500,000 only. So sponsorship dollars isn't that big as we expect it to be.

So if clubs ditch QSF and affiliate with CSA (or form their own organization and get CSA approval), then QSF is done. That's where most of their money comes from. It will only take couple of big clubs to ditch QSF and really end QSF.

The QSF writes a cheque to the CSA not the other way around... no money flows from CSA to the QSF the CSA does not send money to the provinces.

Any money flow that might occur is to the National Training centers run by the CSA in Montreal.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Impact the MLS team is registered through the CSA not the QSF. The World Cup is organized by the CSA; what would happen is that anyone double dipping with the rogue QSF would be suspended from the CSA. Montreal -as a city- is not going to be suspended. Officials and such can be. It would be interesting, if this continues, to see if youth leagues etc. drop the QSF and directly affiliate with the CSA but that is something into the future. I'd prefer the QSF to act responsibly and follow the CSA's rulings. But it doesn't help Sikh kids who want to play soccer to start creating a vindictive list of punishments that are far beyond the scope of the suspension. MLS Impact = CSA not QSF. World Cup in Montreal = CSA not QSF.

What matters is that folks for whom football matters speak up.

I am sure your reply, very polite, is also impeccable.

[TFC07]

The QSF writes a cheque to the CSA not the other way around... no money flows from CSA to the QSF the CSA does not send money to the provinces.

Any money flow that might occur is to the National Training centers run by the CSA in Montreal.

This is where I am getting my information from:

The Canadian Soccer Association couldn’t explain what the ban meant to the federation, but some soccer coaches said it would likely prevent players from competing outside the province.

This fiscal year, 25 per cent of the federation’s $6 million in revenue came from the CSA. It’s not clear if that will be affected by the suspension.

It also receives about half a million dollars from sponsors such as the Quebec government, Saputo, Couche-Tard and the Milk Producers’ Federation.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Quebec+soccer+body+break+silence+until+Wednesday/8510810/story.html#ixzz2W2Zc7q8h

So they do receive money from CSA.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Trillium, you must have never played the game.

Imagine you work your tail off with a group of men in your premier league, you win the league or the cup, qualify for provincials and then win it. There's another trophy there- The National Championship... you don't care? your provincial title is enough? Give me strength.

[Cheeta]

The CSA should take the Women's World cup away from Montreal if this persists.

As has already been mentioned that's "The Big Stick" and if it gets swung it'll clobber Saputo square in the face along with the QSF. He might not like it but Quebec soccer is his little fiefdom, just the way he's liked it up until now. He's wearing this and will continue to wear it. If he hasn't already, surely by now he must realize that.

But what's the rush? We all know a lot can change in a week so leave the guns in the armory. I can only imagine some of the phone calls going on right now, off-camera of course, between some influential and interested persons. Inside and outside of soccerdom.

I wrote it before and I'll write it again. This fiasco is only going to end one way.

You should read this article: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Brossard+team+dons+turbans+solidarity/8505897/story.html

Bully for them and exactly the sort of thing which is needed and is going to allow the QSF a graceful retreat from their current position. Need to see more of it and the sooner the better.

[Cheeta]

Impact the MLS team is registered through the CSA not the QSF. The World Cup is organized by the CSA; what would happen is that anyone double dipping with the rogue QSF would be suspended from the CSA. Montreal -as a city- is not going to be suspended.

...

(Seriously doubt it'll come to that but, since we're speculating anyway.)

So far the CSA has come through this smelling of roses.

I know there is more than one lawyer on the BoG but I'd like to see them trying to justify the CSA sanctioning of a major FIFA event within the territory of one of their suspended federations. Sort of makes the whole effort, well, empty. Hollow. And everyone is going to say so.

Don't think the CSA wants to trade that rose perfume for weaselly lawyer words.

[Bill Spiers]

This is where I am getting my information from:

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Quebec+soccer+body+break+silence+until+Wednesday/8510810/story.html#ixzz2W2Zc7q8h

So they do receive money from CSA.

If you check their annual report – from the QSF web site – you’ll find two pie charts showing revenue and expenses.

Revenue – Protocole ACS – 1 552 123 $ (25,0%)

Expenses – Protocole ACS – 1 548 548 $ (25,5%)

$1.5 million seems about right for what the QSF would pay the CSA. OSA – with about twice the number of players – pays the CSA about $3.1 million.

I suspect that the QSF shows what they collect on behalf of the CSA as (roughly) off-setting amounts on both the revenue and expense sides. Someone with a better understanding of French may be able to take a look at these pie charts and explain further.

[RS]

TFC-Impact game in July is going to be intense if this ban isn't lifted (it sounds like QSF is going to fight it) based on the comments I have been reading online. Hopefully Impact fans (and Saputo) either don't come to Toronto or make sure they have a lot of security with them for their safety.

What kind of stupidity is this?