Grizzly Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hmm. I think the coach we need is an INTERNATIONAL one, not necessarily foreign coach. Someone who has coached at this level who will be able to command the team regardless of whether or not English or French is his primary language. Has Dos Santos ever coached at the highest level? Even at the U17, U20 level? I'm only familiar with him at the club level, can Grizz or anyone from Montreal comment on his coaching style, record, etc? Yes we need a good international coach. People claiming he should be from such and such a region are way off base. We need a good international coach period. A good coach can adapt to different styles and regions. I am not against hiring a South American coach as they have many good ones and there are probably some reasonably priced South American coaches available but we need to search all possible candidates and take the best one we can afford regardless of where he is from. Anyone who is using the place of origin of the coach as criteria should not be involved in the selection process. To answer the question, Dos Santos highest level of coaching was the Impact head coach at NASL level. Now he is in Brazil and is coaching the U20 team Desportivo Brazil which is owned by Traffic Group and is a team designed to develop players to sell on. He will become their head coach next year. They play in the 4th division of the Sao Paolo region league. I like Dos Santos as a person and think he has some ability as a coach. However, I think suggestions that he is anywhere near ready to take over our national team are complete and utter stupidity. I don't think he was even really ready to take over the Impact when he did. Yes you have to credit him with the USL championship we won got on a good run for a few months and with the playoff system that was all that was necessary to win the championship. Those few months were really the only time we played well under Dos Santos, for most of the time before and after that we were poor both results wise and how we looked. We played far better under the Limniatis-Dos Santos combo than under Dos Santos alone. People often said Dos Santos did all the tactical stuff in the pair but I am not sure what their source was for this. One thing for sure was our tactical formations were much better under Limniatis than under Dos Santos. Dos Santos is a smart guy and is in a good place to learn about the game. I think just like Pesch he is at least a decade away from being a serious candidate for MNT trainer. And by a decade away I mean a decade of moving up in the game, coaching professional sides and being successful at it. There are a lot of ridiculous candidates being bandied about. We have had 12 years of incompetent unqualified coaches, we need to get serious. We have stagnated and regressed under all three of Yallop, Mitchell and Hart. I like Limniatis and his intensity/playing experience (especially in Greece) helped the Impact play well in intense situations in Central America but he hasn't continued coaching and was only a head coach at a professional level for one year. He may have been a natural coach or it may have been a one off like Hart's Gold Cup run but without more on his CV it is impossible to evaluate. However, he is not even close to what is needed at the national team level right now. Rennie is also not near to being a good candidate, a couple of years as a successful NASL coach and a mixed year as coach of Vancouver and no experience with national teams. I think the jury is still out on whether he is or isn't the wonderboy that some claim but not a serious candidate for national team coach. If we are going to be mentioning ridiculous candidates than Marsch should also be mentioned. In my opinion he would be better than the others, experience as an assistant coach with the US national team and a pretty steady year building the Impact expansion teams as opposed to a year of wild swings in playing level with a 2nd year team that Rennie had. Plus, I like the style and attitude of Marsch's coaching much more than I like that of Rennie. That being said Marsch is still a good 4 or 5 years away from being a serious candidate himself and that is assuming he is successful during those years. Possibly he might be a good candidate for the next cycle but not even on my list for this one. Also all this talk of needing better players, training methods etc. while true is also a cop out. Yes those are long term issues that need to be addressed but the fact is our players are of a similar level to the other CONCACAF nations except for Mexico and the US. Yes we should work on developing better players and if we had better players it would be easier to qualify but the main issue right now is that we are underachieving with the players we have and have been doing so for the last 12 years. The other CONCACAF nations have some major player weaknesses as well but the difference is they exploit our weaknesses and we do not exploit theirs. The fact is those teams are hiring good coaches to run their teams and we are hiring incompetent unqualified people. Yes if we had better players we might qualify despite having a bad coach. If Mexico had Yallop, Mitchell or Hart they would probably still qualify for the World Cup (though probably not impressively and would suck in the World Cup). I doubt Honduras, Panama, Jamaica etc. would do very well if they had had Yallop, Mitchell and Hart during the last 12 years. The last qualified coach we had was Ossieck. Yes there were some highs and lows during his tenure and he had his strengths and weaknesses. However, I am absolutely certain that if we had hired 3 coaches of similar pedigree to Ossieck in the last three cycles we would have qualified at least once and also each coach would have progressed the style and level of play to a very great extent. Nor do I think it is too financially prohibitive to get a coach like this if you do your homework in the search. Yes hiring a good coach is not guarantee that in the next cycle you will qualify, sometimes the fit is not right, there can be lots of other issues like injuries, bad luck, poor refs. But you are certainly increasing your chances of success dramatically and hiring cheap unqualified coaches is asking for failure. There is no better example than the change in our women's national team in a very short period with Morace and Herdman. We need to offer our Men's team the same chance at success and at the same time have a coach that will demand a level of excellence from them that is not being demanded by these amateur coaches we have been hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You make some interesting points Grizzly. Out of curiosity who would be on your list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StartingEleven Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I know this is the least likely of things to happen but if the CSA were to sign someone of the same polish as Guus Hidink for example, wouldn't players like Hoilett and DeGuzman be easier to attract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I know this is the least likely of things to happen but if the CSA were to sign someone of the same polish as Guus Hidink for example, wouldn't players like Hoilett and DeGuzman be easier to attract. Yes, and we would have less future defections. Having a good coach pays off in many ways. edit: That's not to say that Jr. and Jono would or will play, but players like them would be more likely to play for us and young kids with options would be less likely to leave in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_nunezst Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 “We will be looking for the best candidate for this program, keeping in mind that one of the key ingredients is not just international experience, but also having the understanding of what it means to compete in the environments that we just experienced ... which are significantly different than standing on other sidelines in other place in the world where you have to qualify,” Montagliani stated. That means they are considering Pesch for real, right? Not even Pep Guardiola has experienced that, so the fact that a Canadian retired player is getting to coah the team is a fact. Has Pesch ever won anything as coach? I love the guy, but he would be a great assistant coach, not the coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I would hope that's more of an indication that they would consider a Latin American coach. Yallop and Mitchell played down in Central America and that didn't do us much good in 2004 or 2008. Going on the road to Grimsby Town (for Pesch) is a little less intimidating than Buenos Aires or Bogota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I don't want a coach who has a small amount of experience and is coaching in lower English leagues (without much success). Also we should be able to get whatever head coach we want and have an assistant with experience on how to deal going into these Central American away games, first thing is getting a coach who is good, second is getting one who will be able to deal with the conditions. Bottom line is if we had a coach who was experienced we probably would have played more attacking at home to Honduras and it would have made playing the away game inconsequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My name contribution is that of Marcelo Bielsa. He has taken 2 countries to the WC that I know. I hope that Montagliani now puts the money where his mouth is and hires a true experienced professional if he cares so much for the men's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Just hire Pesch already. He is cheap and available. The next two years are practice anyways, there is no need to spend money on a good coach until we need to. That gives us 2 years to see if Paul is the man for the job or continue scouting for the man who is. There is no urgency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My name contribution is that of Marcelo Bielsa. He has taken 2 countries to the WC that I know. I hope that Montagliani now puts the money where his mouth is and hires a true experienced professional if he cares so much for the men's team. Biesla is going to leave Athletic Bilbao in La Liga for Canada and 300k a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Biesla is going to leave Athletic Bilbao in La Liga for Canada and 300k a year? Sorry, I don't know and have never spoken to the guy. I was just throwing another name in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My name contribution is that of Marcelo Bielsa. He has taken 2 countries to the WC that I know. I hope that Montagliani now puts the money where his mouth is and hires a true experienced professional if he cares so much for the men's team. Might as well throw Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola in the mix as well then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Might as well throw Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola in the mix as well then. I'll take Pep As a serious note I'd take any Spain D1/2 coach who understands the modern game and can get average players to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Might as well throw Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola in the mix as well then. Why all the sarcasm. Tsk Tsk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 One more to add to the list. Ex Canadian International and Napoli assistant Enzo Concina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Concina Just a name really as I don't know a whole lot about him to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Why all the sarcasm. Tsk Tsk! Well I think Bielsa is up there with the best coaches in the world and seeing as hes playing in Copa Del Rey finals with Bilbao and coaching teams like Argentina and Chile to the world cup and currently makes 2.5m euros a year I think he's probably as out of our realm as the 2 coaches I mentioned. Also if he left Bilbao after what hes done with that team and Chile I'm fairly sure there would be a long list of world class teams willing to increase his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yeah, Bielsa is pretty unrealistic. Another guy who was in contention for the job 5 years ago is Bruce Arena. Apparently his asking price was $US 500K - which was deemed too pricey...pretty sure he's not going anywhere any time soon, but if he were available he'd be a pretty good guy to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'd take Bruce Arena for 500k in a heartbeat. Hes got lots of experience in the region, at the world cup and should have a decent knowledge of many of our players. Also I think hes done a good job wherever hes been and seems to be respected by players, that sort of guy is right up our alley. That said I don't know why he'd leave the best gig in MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ^ He's someone I've thought could do great things for our program for a while, but I have always just assumed he would be out of our price range. Perhaps the TD/Head coach dual salary might make it possible but otherwise I'd be surprised if we could get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 After listening to Montagliani speak on the Soccer Show I would add former El Salvador head coach Carlos do los Cobos to the list of potential coaches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_de_los_Cobos Coached Tigres and Club America in the MFL. Assistant coach to Lapuente for Mexico during the '98 WC cycle. Coached El Salvador to a spot in the 2009 Hex and then at Chicago Fire before returning to Queretaro where he had his first coaching stint. Currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 After listening to Montagliani speak on the Soccer Show I would add former El Salvador head coach Carlos do los Cobos to the list of potential coaches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_de_los_Cobos Coached Tigres and Club America in the MFL. Assistant coach to Lapuente for Mexico during the '98 WC cycle. Coached El Salvador to a spot in the 2009 Hex and then at Chicago Fire before returning to Queretaro where he had his first coaching stint. Currently available. God he was terrible with Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 God he was terrible with Chicago That aside, I don't think he's that bad an option. Maybe MLS just wasn't for him. He seems to be able in coaching at the international level, leading El Sal to the hex. You gotta think he would be able to teach the players how to play in hostile Central America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just read through this thread quickly now but Grizzly's dismissal of Marc Dos Santos might be a little too quick. My feeling is that we need a Head Coach who can work with talented young players for at least a couple of years. Dos Santos may not be ready for the Senior team but somehow I find it odd that we dismiss a Canadian-born Coach that has been given the responsibility of working with young talent identified by Manchester United and Desportivo Brasil. The contacts that Dos Santos will have in Brazil and globally (especially now) would be a huge benefit to youth development in Canada if he were selected to lead, at very least, our junior team. Desportivo Brasil is not your typical small club. They have a modern training centre in Porto Feliz, SP that is as good as any of the big clubs. Desportivo Brasil also has a partnership with Manchester United and trains young Brazilian players already acquired on ManU's behalf at Porto Feliz. It should be also noted that at one time, the club's Technical Director was Carlos Alberto Perreira. Marc Dos Santos, as Desportivo Brasil's U20 coach will be in charge of their team (birth year 1994 and younger) in the Copa Sao Paulo de Futebol Junior tournament (January). Desportivo Brasil's Copa Sao Paulo team could be better than their Senior team because the top players after the Copa Sao Paulo tend to move onto big clubs rather than move to the Senior team. While Desportivo Brasil's Senior team only plays in the State's 4th level, its youth teams are competitive with the best in Brazil. In last years prestigious Copa Sao Paulo de Futebol Junior, Desportivo Brazil eliminated both Santos and Athletico Mineiro. In July 2012, Desportivo Brasil U-17 won the Milk Cup over Newcastle United winning 3-0 and was one of eight teams to qualify and compete in Aegon Future Cup in Amsterdam that included teams from Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Milan, Besiktas, and Ajax (Winner). Maybe its too soon for Dos Santos for the MNT; but, he is definitely one to watch down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 God he was terrible with Chicago Yeah, he didn't do so **** hot. Not so much advocating for him to be the coach - though I think he'd be a better choice than Pesch or Fonseca - but think that he fits the criteria Montagliani is throwing out there and he had some success with El Salvador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just read through this thread quickly now but Grizzly's dismissal of Marc Dos Santos might be a little too quick. My feeling is that we need a Head Coach who can work with talented young players for at least a couple of years. Dos Santos may not be ready for the Senior team but somehow I find it odd that we dismiss a Canadian-born Coach that has been given the responsibility of working with young talent identified by Manchester United and Desportivo Brasil. The contacts that Dos Santos will have in Brazil and globally (especially now) would be a huge benefit to youth development in Canada if he were selected to lead, at very least, our junior team. Desportivo Brasil is not your typical small club. They have a modern training centre in Porto Feliz, SP that is as good as any of the big clubs. Desportivo Brasil also has a partnership with Manchester United and trains young Brazilian players already acquired on ManU's behalf at Porto Feliz. It should be also noted that at one time, the club's Technical Director was Carlos Alberto Perreira. Marc Dos Santos, as Desportivo Brasil's U20 coach will be in charge of their team (birth year 1994 and younger) in the Copa Sao Paulo de Futebol Junior tournament (January). Desportivo Brasil's Copa Sao Paulo team could be better than their Senior team because the top players after the Copa Sao Paulo tend to move onto big clubs rather than move to the Senior team. While Desportivo Brasil's Senior team only plays in the State's 4th level, its youth teams are competitive with the best in Brazil. In last years prestigious Copa Sao Paulo de Futebol Junior, Desportivo Brazil eliminated both Santos and Athletico Mineiro. In July 2012, Desportivo Brasil U-17 won the Milk Cup over Newcastle United winning 3-0 and was one of eight teams to qualify and compete in Aegon Future Cup in Amsterdam that included teams from Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Milan, Besiktas, and Ajax (Winner). Maybe its too soon for Dos Santos for the MNT; but, he is definitely one to watch down the road. Has he left Palmeiras? This interview seems to suggest he's still there, coaching the U-15: http://www.rednationonline.ca/Interviews2012/RedNationInterviewSeriesMarcDosSantos.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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