Blue and White Army Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 It's really a pity that Nike sold USL to NuRock. Imagine if USL had decided to re-form as an association of clubs, and we still had a decent second division. (sigh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 What some people definitely seem to lose sight of on here is that the current problems are not due to a shortage of potential investors in a North American D2 league but to the politics that have unfolded at both the league and association level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tovan1 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The evidence is in front of your nose - the required investors have not shown any interest, even in USL-1 or now NASL beyond the 4 clubs that exist now, all of whom are committed elsewhere. What makes you think an even bigger investment by even more people/organisations in a completely unknown quantity (brand new league and consequently maximum financial risk) with inadequate infrastructure in place is more attractive? http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64381&start=30 - This post comes from Bob Young, owner of the Tiger-Cats himself: “I'm hoping the NASL can pull through their current challenges, as Soccer is growing rapidly in players, teams, and popularity in North America. As a former minority partner of my friend Selby Wellman's Railhawks in Raleigh I am very aware of the state of flux in professional soccer in North America. Regardless of whether the Hamilton team plays in the MLS, the NASL, the USL, or a Canadian Pro Soccer League - we are committed to bringing Pro Soccer to Hamilton and the proposed new PanAm Stadium. I would love nothing better than to beat the Toronto FC in the Canadian Championship competitions, as Montreal Impact have done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrilite_ ... ampionship We will, in due course, have to have a "name the team contest". I really like a bunch of the suggestions in these forums for names. Although I will not give away which I like best for fear of corrupting the competition. Cheers, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Better, I think both you and Ted are entirely missing the point. I can only speak for myself but clearly it is you has completely missed my point. We're talking about a high-end league. $1.5-2M a year player salary budgets, proper facilities, key corporate sponsorship upfront. Stadiums. Big time investment. Wonderful. I have always been a supporter of this concept and while I have also supported using what little branding is available (heck , I even included the Toronto Lynx in my early concepts) I have never suggested that building from the grassroots was a credible plan for professional soccer in Canada. Like promotion-relegation it is something that cannot work in this market at this time. People want a club. But they won't come out for anything less than the real deal. NASL isn't that quality level. The best of the old USL was BARELY that level. Sorry, but the new NASL has not yet played a single game. You cannot state the league presents as lesser quality when it has not yet even kicked off. 2010 was a combined USL-NASL show. In the minds of casual fans and potential sponsors, a North American-wide league ranked just below MLS looks a lot better than anything else proposed. The reason we're mocking Richard is that none of you seem to be able to wrap your head around the fact that Canada has relative corporate wealth now, to carry something like this off, along withthe fact that we now have a plethora of potential television coverage available, a sophisticated fan base compared to the past that doesn't care about Canadian amateur soccer etc. I don't recall arguing these points. What I disagree with is your unsubstantiated belief in the willingness of those in control of the corporate wealth of which you speak to invest in an all-Canadian solution. I also think a sophisticated fan base wants to see some history in their teams or else we would have the Vancouver Lasersharks in MLS this year and the Montreal Zombie Killers in 2012. Sophisticated fans also want to see heartwarming stories of local lads rising through the amateur ranks and making the first squad of their home town team. I've yet to see anyone offer a cogent argument as to why an upper-tier league impossible Well, you will not find one here because I am arguing that a upper-tier league is very possible. We are disagreeing on the structure and composition of that league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just to be completely clear: I would TOTALLY cheer for Zombie Killers FC...Lasersharks just sounds lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The evidence is in front of your nose - the required investors have not shown any interest, even in USL-1 or now NASL beyond the 4 clubs that exist now, all of whom are committed elsewhere. What makes you think an even bigger investment by even more people/organisations in a completely unknown quantity (brand new league and consequently maximum financial risk) with inadequate infrastructure in place is more attractive? The required investors have not shown interest in USL or NASL because they, aside from a very small handful of success stories, are a proven money pit. Blank Slate>NASL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And where is the evidence to support any argument that a startup Canadian domestic league competing with MLS, NASL and USL for fan's attention and more importantly, money, will not be as big if not likely an even bigger money pit, especially if we're talking a $1.5-$2 million player salary budget as has been suggested. Very few north American soccer clubs are profitable and pay dividends to their shareholders, whether small or big financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And where is the evidence to support any argument that a startup Canadian domestic league competing with MLS, NASL and USL for fan's attention and more importantly, money, will not be as big if not likely an even bigger money pit, especially if we're talking a $1.5-$2 million player salary budget as has been suggested. Very few north American soccer clubs are profitable and pay dividends to their shareholders, whether small or big financially. There is no way that they would be competing with the NASL and USL if they pulled those teams out of those leagues. We already have enough teams in those leagues to start our own, but hopefully in the next few years we can see some more attendance, soccer specific stadiums and complexes, and teams. The only league that the CSA won't pull teams from is the MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And where is the evidence to support any argument that a startup Canadian domestic league competing with MLS, NASL and USL for fan's attention and more importantly, money, will not be as big if not likely an even bigger money pit, especially if we're talking a $1.5-$2 million player salary budget as has been suggested. Very few north American soccer clubs are profitable and pay dividends to their shareholders, whether small or big financially. And the ones that are profitable are the ones willing to spend money to make money, not the ones that cut corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 If you don't understand what I said there is no point in continuing this exchange. You talk like this is some sort of renaissance festival. http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64381&start=30 - This post comes from Bob Young, owner of the Tiger-Cats himself: “I'm hoping the NASL can pull through their current challenges, as Soccer is growing rapidly in players, teams, and popularity in North America. As a former minority partner of my friend Selby Wellman's Railhawks in Raleigh I am very aware of the state of flux in professional soccer in North America. Regardless of whether the Hamilton team plays in the MLS, the NASL, the USL, or a Canadian Pro Soccer League - we are committed to bringing Pro Soccer to Hamilton and the proposed new PanAm Stadium. I would love nothing better than to beat the Toronto FC in the Canadian Championship competitions, as Montreal Impact have done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrilite_ ... ampionship We will, in due course, have to have a "name the team contest". I really like a bunch of the suggestions in these forums for names. Although I will not give away which I like best for fear of corrupting the competition. Cheers, Bob. Well, Richard, apparently there are investors interested in the idea of a Canadian Pro Soccer league. You have been refuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 You think this is some sort of renaissance festival or something? Well, Richard, apparently there are investors interested in Canadian Pro Soccer league. You have been refuted. I think it's important to note though, that Young only suggested openness to the concept in addition to NASL or USL, or whatever. It seems like what he wants above all out of it is a professional soccer club. For me, this says not that we need to be arguing about whether or not owners exist to put clubs in an all-Canadian league, but rather that the CSA needs to get some sponsors and a structure in place so that these "up-in-the-air" Canadian clubs and aspiring Canadian owners can get into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 What's to stop these fantastic wannabe Canadian investors/owners from putting up some money in escrow as an indication of their sincere intent and submitting a proposal and business plan in support of an application to the CSA for sanctioning of a nationwide domestic professional league. They're all wealthy entrepeneurs after all, they know full well how to go about that sort of thing and they obviously have the money right? Not as if there aren't any precedents either. Oh wait, they haven't done that despite the convictions of some people here that it is all feasible and practical because they have all the answers already right... I wonder why nothing has happened? Instead the CSA has struck yet another committee to explore the possibility... again, and there has been not another peep from the CSA on the subject since they made that announcement, not even a whisper of a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Oh wait, they haven't done that despite the convictions of some people here that it is all feasible and practical because they have all the answers already right... I wonder why nothing has happened? Instead the CSA has struck yet another committee to explore the possibility... again, and there has been not another peep from the CSA on the subject since they made that announcement, not even a whisper of a leak. What an ironic post. I love how you mock people having "all the answers" but continue on with your second paragraph. So, clearly, you have all the answers with the CSA sanctioning ban? You know for a fact nothing good is going to come out of it. You have the answers already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The dialogue in this thread reminds me of this commercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The dialogue in this thread reminds me of this commercial. Yup. can't/won't argue with that asertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 What an ironic post. I love how you mock people having "all the answers" but continue on with your second paragraph. So, clearly, you have all the answers with the CSA sanctioning ban? You know for a fact nothing good is going to come out of it. You have the answers already?I am not mocking people, merely stating the obvious. As for having all the answers, I merely look at history and review what has changed since then draw my conclusions, you can do the same but take off your rose tinted spectacles first. Do you really have so much faith in the CSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Yup. can't/won't argue with that asertion. Shut off the valve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Here's a Rochester based podcast with another interview with Aaron Davidson from 3:30 onwards with interesting comments about the Impact at about 8:30: http://c2997732.cdn.cloudfiles.racks...G-01-31-11.mp3 Joey Saputo says he can't play lower than D2 this year, also has two management teams in Montreal right now one for transition to MLS and one for running a team in another market in the NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I am not mocking people, merely stating the obvious. As for having all the answers, I merely look at history and review what has changed since then draw my conclusions, you can do the same but take off your rose tinted spectacles first. Do you really have so much faith in the CSA? I don't have any rose tinted spectacles on. The main difference here is that I'm saying it could happen while you're saying it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloome Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The evidence is in front of your nose - the required investors have not shown any interest, even in USL-1 or now NASL beyond the 4 clubs that exist now, all of whom are committed elsewhere. What makes you think an even bigger investment by even more people/organisations in a completely unknown quantity (brand new league and consequently maximum financial risk) with inadequate infrastructure in place is more attractive? You're aware of course that until Toronto came along, MLS had actually shrunk, contracting by two teams from its launch. People didn't believe it then, but they realized the market potential. It's the same market. It might be slightly below MLS level, but not by much, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloome Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Very few north American soccer clubs are profitable and pay dividends to their shareholders, whether small or big financially. But the ones following the model we're suggesting -- Toronto, Seattle, Philly -- all DO make money. That's kind of the point. They understand the marketplace. It's why they're succeeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloome Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What's to stop these fantastic wannabe Canadian investors/owners from putting up some money in escrow as an indication ... Explain. You've been refuted, by the owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats no less, and yet you're now attaching some sort of escrow-based value system to people's intentions. This is called prolonging an argument you've already lost, instead of simply showing humility. You said there was no interest. There is. And "most north american teams lose money" is an argument that works both ways. Yes, Richard, they HAVE lost money.....doing it pretty much exactly the same half-assed way the NASL and USLPRO are currently planning. EDIT: expect cognitive dissonance to kick in soon, as Richard's realization that he's arguing a belief, not a fact, comes into contact with his inability to ever admit a glimmer of fallibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I haven't been refuted in any way, shape or form. You merely hold a different belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Explain. You've been refuted, by the owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats no less Sorry, one potential investor who would be willing to consider something other than NASL is not enought to even come close to refuting Richard's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 EDIT: expect cognitive dissonance to kick in soon, as Richard's realization that he's arguing a belief, not a fact, comes into contact with his inability to ever admit a glimmer of fallibility. He's old, you can't really blame him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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