NASL sanctioning not secure

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Moving things back to reality and away from people's pet fantasies about national leagues, Aaron Davidson's interview on Oranges at Halftime is up on the website now:

http://www.team990.com/sound_bytes/view/session/oranges_halftime_podcast/7/

The problem seems to have been on the $750k lines of credit (probably with Carolina and Puerto Rico judging by what was said on ICF by Ben Rycroft and Brian Quarsted). Davidson thinks that the NASL has now sorted out that problem as the letters of credit from each team are now in place and the USSF now has access to $6 million to deal with any issues that may arise this season. Another angle seems to be employment level at the league office that has also been fixed. Mentions that Montreal and Vancouver still want to have D2 teams in NASL despite the moves to MLS.

[Alex D]

What a fun thread. Let's make up team names! How about Inter Moose Jaw

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The Inside Minnesota Soccer (IMS) blog has an interview with Aaron Davidson of the NASL:

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2011/01/25/nasl-ceo-aaron-davidson-expresses-continued-optimism-in-receiving-division-2-sanctioning/

...

“We’ve supplemented our application,” declared Davidson. “We’ve provided the federation with what we believe was the missing information. We feel we live up to the standards of second division as they were set forth in October.

...

Davidson said that the bond of $750 thousand required by each team in the league is now joint and several, meaning that if a team was to go belly up, the federation could not only draw all the money out of that team’s account to pay their expenses but would then go pro rata across all teams until all outstanding debts are satisfied. The amount of that letter of credit for each team was in the standards posted in August but the ‘joint and several’ was not specified until recently. But Davidson says “it’s all for one and one for all” explaining he’s all right with that; it’s exactly what he’s been preaching since the days of the Team Owners Association’s breakaway group.

...

[tovan1]

How long is sanctioning good for? If things don't change much will this happen again next year?

[tovan1]

Now, if only had the billion dollars needed to make this all happen.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-considers-paying-for-stadiums-with-unspent-1-billion/article1881605/

Surely, a Canadian league would primarily use community and/or multi-purpose stadiums.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

How long is sanctioning good for? If things don't change much will this happen again next year?

Think it gets reviewed on a yearly basis. Thing to check is the new D2 requirements and they should be readily available by googling. The main thing looming over the horizon is requirements for more teams spread over multiple US timezones to be in the league in certain time frames. They need to get up to a minimum of 12 eventually (think it is by year 5), which means 5 more franchises given Montreal are only in for one year if no team folds in the mean time. St Antonio and Ottawa are lined up so three more are needed right now basically (one more can be Canadian by that point, which would probably be Hamilton if the Pan Am games stadium gets built for the Ticats). Assuming they do get sanctioning for 2011 (looks like they will) there is definitely scope for plenty of future drama but waivers appear to be allowed so there is also scope for flexibility on the USSF's part. I seriously doubt that the USSF would torpedo the entire league and leave a void at D2 over a tiny technicality.

[jloome]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-considers-paying-for-stadiums-with-unspent-1-billion/article1881605/

Surely, a Canadian league would primarily use community and/or multi-purpose stadiums.

LOL, I wrote an editorial suggesting Ottawa run a national sports infrastructure program for the Sun papers for Dec. 29 edition, then spiked it and wrote a different one. Even though the logic was solid, it seemed too parochial ("Oh ****, Loome's writing another bloody soccer piece" etc etc).

Should've written it, I guess.

[Alex D]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-considers-paying-for-stadiums-with-unspent-1-billion/article1881605/

Surely, a Canadian league would primarily use community and/or multi-purpose stadiums.

If Canadian soccer could get ahold of just a tenth of that it would have a major impact for our sport. Combine that money with some provincial, municipal, corporate, and private funding then presto, we have Stadé Saputos popping up across the country.

I have a dream!

[Macksam]

I'm not sure it would be wise to put D2 teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal where MLS teams are still establishing themselves. The presence of a new D2 team (in addition to MLS and it's reserve and academy teams) could fragment the soccer market and make both teams weaker. Theses markets won't be mature enough for multiple professional soccer teams for long time.

Using Marlies/Leafs as an example, Marlies are irrelevant in Toronto because the thinking is, why follow the Marlies when you can follow the Leafs? Similarly, the Edmonton Road Runners of the AHL weren't able to coexist with the Oilers. Canadians, for one reason or another, don't appear to support minor league teams when a major league team is present in the same market.

The Voyageurs Cup is already a good proxy for a complete domestic league. Although D2 teams would be in a different league than MLS teams, they would still meet them regularly in VC competition (depending on the format).

Going along with my original idea: MLS in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and D2 in Victoria, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, London, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Quebec would allow professional soccer to focus on having a presence in the 11 largest/most established soccer markets across the country.

8 teams in 2 conferences (double home and home in conference, and single home and home out of conference = 20 game regular season + playoffs + VC competition = 25-30 games/season).

And yes, a balanced travel budget league-wide would be a necessity.

This is what I was thinking. The D2 teams would be in unserved markets. There really is no need to get a second team in the MLS markets, except for maybe a west end GTA team. Brampton ftw! If I accumulate enough capital, watch out. I will put an ethnic spin on the team. Since TFC seems to develop the Jamaican talent in Brampton, I'll develop the Punjabi talent.

[mulliganl]

This is what I was thinking. The D2 teams would be in unserved markets. There really is no need to get a second team in the MLS markets, except for maybe a west end GTA team. Brampton ftw! If I accumulate enough capital, watch out. I will put an ethnic spin on the team. Since TFC seems to develop the Jamaican talent in Brampton, I'll develop the Punjabi talent.

Punjabi FC

FTWinOT

[Redcoatsforever]

Punjabi FC

FTWinOT

Oh, please.

It's gotta be: Sporting Bramladesh

[Macksam]

Oh, please.

It's gotta be: Sporting Bramladesh

*scoffs*

That nickname doesn't fit. Using the prefix "ladesh" would imply Bangladesh. Brampton doesn't have a lot of people from that ethnic group. Most of the Indians here are of Punjabi origin.

It's important to note as Indians are way more divided and regionalistic than Italians or Spaniards.

[Richard]

It's all very well building 5-10,000 seat independent stadia for D2 teams, it's quite another covering the operating costs of those stadia which you won't do selling 4,000 tickets (if you're lucky) in a domestic Canadian semi-pro league playing maybe 10 home games a season at least one tier below NASL at best.

[Macksam]

It's all very well building 5-10,000 seat independent stadia for D2 teams, it's quite another covering the operating costs of those stadia which you won't do selling 4,000 tickets (if you're lucky) in a domestic Canadian semi-pro league playing maybe 10 home games a season at least one tier below NASL at best.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions like that.

[Juby]

It's all very well building 5-10,000 seat independent stadia for D2 teams, it's quite another covering the operating costs of those stadia which you won't do selling 4,000 tickets (if you're lucky) in a domestic Canadian semi-pro league playing maybe 10 home games a season at least one tier below NASL at best.

You do realize that even in your unrealistic model that your not correct?

First off, 4000 tickets to a game, at your convinently chosen 10 home game max at a paltry 10$ a ticket is 400 000$ in ticket revenue alone (then theirs sponsors, merchandising, food and beer sales, youth programs etc.)

Second, why would this national league be semi pro if a regional league already managed that, so by talking about making a new step up, your assuming that means they didn't step up? (your just rigging the details to pretend your making a damning point)

Third, if their were say eight teams, odds are they are still going to play more then ten home games, hell, with 11 teams for a normal 10 home games we'd probably conference up and play 15 home games (two in conference), you just chose a very low number to try and skew the figures.

Fourth, your for some reason assuming all of these stadiums could never get any government help from any of the three levels (usually that comes when a decent amount of private capital is raised, not before), not to say they all would, or would necessarily get a lot but it's just another assumption...

What you've done here is draw a caricature, no one was talking about building like eleven 5 000 - 10 000 for 4000 fans (another assumption) in an ?11? team table for a semi pro league, but that's what you drew in your own imagination and then scoffed at it. We were talking about a low level pro league (yes below the current NASL generally, the only accurate thing you said) probably with at least 12-15 home games and probably in mostly pre existing mid sized stadiums...

[Alex D]

It's all very well building 5-10,000 seat independent stadia for D2 teams, it's quite another covering the operating costs of those stadia which you won't do selling 4,000 tickets (if you're lucky) in a domestic Canadian semi-pro league playing maybe 10 home games a season at least one tier below NASL at best.

I don't really know how to respond to this but I'll give it my best go.

First: Yes it would be hard for a domestic league if your scenario were to play out, but you are doing a whole lot of assuming. My position on the matter is that we do this thing right or don't do it at all, we do not need CSL 2.0.

Second: Are you suggesting that by playing in the NASL these very same teams in these very same markets will somehow make it work, or that no other Canadian soccer team will work ever?

[Alex D]

What you've done here is draw a caricature, no one was talking about building like eleven 5 000 - 10 000 for 4000 fans (another assumption) in an ?11? team table for a semi pro league, but that's what you drew in your own imagination and then scoffed at it. We were talking about a low level pro league (yes below the current NASL generally, the only accurate thing you said) probably with at least 12-15 home games and probably in mostly pre existing mid sized stadiums...

Actually I was, and I believe thats what Richard was directing his comments at. The semi-pro regional level will need to be strengthen regardless, but I'm focusing on the possibility of a true national league such as the ad-hoc committee is currently investigating.

One of the first points detractors make is a lack of physical infrastructure. This billion dollar surplus provides an exciting chance for this to be addressed. Surely the CFL and NHL will have first dibs on this money but if there is enough leftover we can get a handful of small SSS built. They don't have to be the taj mahal, just a clean, comfortable, professional looking place to watch a game. Hell, anything with a working scoreboard and operating concession stands would be a step up in most places here.

[Juby]

Actually I was, and I believe thats what Richard was directing his comments at. The semi-pro regional level will need to be strengthen regardless, but I'm focusing on the possibility of a true national league such as the ad-hoc committee is currently investigating.

One of the first points detractors make is a lack of physical infrastructure. This billion dollar surplus provides an exciting chance for this to be addressed. Surely the CFL and NHL will have first dibs on this money but if there is enough leftover we can get a handful of small SSS built. They don't have to be the taj mahal, just a clean, comfortable, professional looking place to watch a game. Hell, anything with a working scoreboard and operating concession stands would be a step up in most places here.

well my bad, to be fair it did look like a broad statement on his part.

[Richard]

Of course its assumptions - everyone in this and other threads who has been speculating about a domestic pro league has been making huge and I might add often very unrealistic and unsupportable assumptions rhat can only come out of lala-land - why should I not climb on that same bandwagon for once? Many people never fail to remind me when I inject a dose of reality into a thread that this is a chat forum.... and surprise surprise, people chat!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

ICF interview with Tom Fath of FCE:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1063-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-FC-Edmonton-owner-Tom-Faith

{16:00 onwards if you want to skip the filler content}

Seems confident the whole sanctioning thing will be settled, quickly dismisses notion of a D2 Canadian league as an option says NASL is way to go, says they have different and more realistic approach than Aviators based on better product on field due to Dutch coaching, won't disclose budget, playing at Foote Field with 5000 seats but plan on an SSS in 3 to 5 years and says Edmonton needs a medium sized stadium smaller than Commonwealth so will look for government support on that, NCC seen as an exciting thing and good way to showcase team, an Academy was started back in Sept/Oct, players will visit 30 to 50 schools this year, goal is 2000 to 2500 season tickets not close to target right now but still early, season tickets available by phone the number is on their website.

[foreverthursday]

ICF interview with Tom Fath of FCE:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1063-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-FC-Edmonton-owner-Tom-Faith

{16:00 onwards if you want to skip the filler content}

Seems confident the whole sanctioning thing will be settled, quickly dismisses notion of a D2 Canadian league as an option says NASL is way to go, says they have different and more realistic approach than Aviators based on better product on field due to Dutch coaching, won't disclose budget, playing at Foote Field with 5000 seats but plan on an SSS in 3 to 5 years and says Edmonton needs a medium sized stadium smaller than Commonwealth so will look for government support on that, NCC seen as an exciting thing and good way to showcase team, an Academy was started back in Sept/Oct, players will visit 30 to 50 schools this year, goal is 2000 to 2500 season tickets not close to target right now but still early, season tickets available by phone the number is on their website.

Nicely done, and you made the interview sound better than it was. That summarizes it exactly. I have been biting my tongue because I knew about F.C. Edmonton expanding Foote Field to 5,500 (what I was told), but now that cat is out of the bag. It is a great facility, except for the permanent lines. I don't add the turf to that, because the turf there is very nice, and the University spent quite a bit on it. It is just the permanent lines that seems to be an issue.

[Redcoatsforever]

Nicely done, and you made the interview sound better than it was. That summarizes it exactly. I have been biting my tongue because I knew about F.C. Edmonton expanding Foote Field to 5,500 (what I was told), but now that cat is out of the bag. It is a great facility, except for the permanent lines. I don't add the turf to that, because the turf there is very nice, and the University spent quite a bit on it. It is just the permanent lines that seems to be an issue.

Surely they could get some of that temporary green turf-dye to spray over the football lines if it were such an issue?

[alberta white]

I moved out of the south side before Xmas but use to catch the LRT from Southgate to Downtown each morning.

With that in mind, has anyone mentioned hanging a 'LARGE' Blanket/Banner of the Club Crest off the back Gen Admission bleachers? That is guaranteed to catch the eye of the Tranist populance at the South Campus Transit Station.

I know it's probably going to be an issue with Planning, but even so Nothing ventured etc.

Apolgies if its already been done. as I said haven't Ridden the rails since September '10

[Alex D]

ICF interview with Tom Fath of FCE:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1063-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-FC-Edmonton-owner-Tom-Faith

{16:00 onwards if you want to skip the filler content}

Seems confident the whole sanctioning thing will be settled, quickly dismisses notion of a D2 Canadian league as an option says NASL is way to go, says they have different and more realistic approach than Aviators based on better product on field due to Dutch coaching, won't disclose budget, playing at Foote Field with 5000 seats but plan on an SSS in 3 to 5 years and says Edmonton needs a medium sized stadium smaller than Commonwealth so will look for government support on that, NCC seen as an exciting thing and good way to showcase team, an Academy was started back in Sept/Oct, players will visit 30 to 50 schools this year, goal is 2000 to 2500 season tickets not close to target right now but still early, season tickets available by phone the number is on their website.

Of course he did, he has a vested interest in seeing that the NASL gets sanctioned. Nobody in their right mind in his position would say "Ya this league is crap, I will switch to a Canadian league the second I get the chance". I'm not trying to suggest what his feelings are, because how the hell would I actually know. Just pointing out the PR suicide of saying anything other than what he did.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter what he likes, the CSA controls the sanctioning. If we fill up our Canadian maximum (25% of the league for those who are not aware) in the NASL and there are owners that still want in, the CSA can pull sanctioning and force them into a new league. It's at that point for Fath to decide whether to continue on or waste all of his work and shut it down out of spite.

[Richard]

I don't think it would be shutting down the club out of spite. The club is a business, the investors have a business plan contingent upon certain factors one being playing in the NASL not some third rate Canadian league. In his shoes if the CSA did that to my business I'd pull the plug right away.