jloome Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 not some third rate Canadian league. LOL, spoken like someone who either knows nothing about the NASL or has very low standards indeed. IF you could put on professional soccer cheaper, in any more third-rate of a circumstance than they're doing now, I'd like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I don't think it would be shutting down the club out of spite. The club is a business, the investors have a business plan contingent upon certain factors one being playing in the NASL not some third rate Canadian league. In his shoes if the CSA did that to my business I'd pull the plug right away. Your argument and assumptions are wrong. There is no big TV money in the NASL and it would make no difference to the supporters who pay to see the team live what league they play in so pulling the plug would make no sense. The team's revenue and operating budget would not be impacted negatively. In all honesty, it might have a positive impact as travel costs would be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tovan1 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 of course the Edmonton group is throwing their support with NASL. What other alternative do they have? If there was an alternative that was viable I'm sure they would consider it... I doubt it's NASL or bust because of choice... it's largely due to circumstance. The reality is, there's nothing else that's even close to being an option now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I don't think it would be shutting down the club out of spite. The club is a business, the investors have a business plan contingent upon certain factors one being playing in the NASL not some third rate Canadian league. In his shoes if the CSA did that to my business I'd pull the plug right away. Are you aware that this is not Pele's NASL? If you throw out the massive outlier that is Montreal, the league will be lucky to hit 2,500 in average attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettinhalifax Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Isn't USL-Pro an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Of course it is - if the USL will accept the NASL renegades back :-) I suspect the USL is just waiting for the NASL to fail. Those who are claiming that a third rate domestic semi-pro Canadian league would generate the same or better revenue for Canadian clubs than would playing in the NSAL are showing a sad lack of appreciation of marketing and brand value, never mind standard of play on the field. Carry on living in fantasy land my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 With regard to sanctioning, it is becoming clear that USSF's D2 requirement of 75% American clubs is unrealistic. Many have pointed out that it was never enforced. Clearly, at the D2 level the budgets are such that there are very few potential owners willing to throw a hat in the ring. The U.S. and Canada (and Puerto Rico) need each other at the D2 level for the immediate future and maybe much longer. Restricting further interest in NASL Canadian franchises because of an artificial limit is a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tovan1 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Who said anything about a Canadian league being a third rate or semi-pro? I think most of us on here are saying IF it can be done it HAS to be done right. Fact is there is no Canadian league because the support, investment, and infrastructure isn't in place. Who says that it can't be developed, albeit for the time being, by using US leagues such as NASL and PDL to develop the structures until it is sufficient enough to make the jump and pursue something nationwide. We need a long term solution that places player and club development under our own control. NASL is a good ad hoc solution for the time being but they aren't exactly a beacon of stability nor are they front and centre in the media like you seem to think. Truth is, anything below MLS is really unstable but NASL is all we have now, so it will have to do in the interim. It's not that we're living in a fantasy world or that we don't recognize the situation as it is, we are thinking towards the long term development of the game in Canada. Sticking with the status quo isn't going to get us any further than where we are now. It doesn't mean that everything we discuss or propose on here is doctrine that must be followed, we're just putting it out in the universe to explore the alternatives should the opportunity present itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Of course it is - if the USL will accept the NASL renegades back :-) I suspect the USL is just waiting for the NASL to fail. Those who are claiming that a third rate domestic semi-pro Canadian league would generate the same or better revenue for Canadian clubs than would playing in the NSAL are showing a sad lack of appreciation of marketing and brand value, never mind standard of play on the field. Carry on living in fantasy land my friends. And here is why an all-Canadian second division isn't going to be a third-rate, semi-pro, throw-together when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Of course it is - if the USL will accept the NASL renegades back :-) I suspect the USL is just waiting for the NASL to fail. Those who are claiming that a third rate domestic semi-pro Canadian league would generate the same or better revenue for Canadian clubs than would playing in the NSAL are showing a sad lack of appreciation of marketing and brand value, never mind standard of play on the field. Carry on living in fantasy land my friends. NASL has the brand power of Enron, and if the league was on solid footing it would be sanctioned by now. Taking the attendance of the 5 returning NASL teams that aren't bailing in a year for MLS, the average attendance was 2218. Of the other 2 teams, Edmonton is an expansion (who hopefully does well above league average) and Atlanta has been on hiatus for 2 years due to financial difficulties. We are at rock bottom, we can only go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 And here is why an all-Canadian second division isn't going to be a third-rate, semi-pro, throw-together when it happens. I'm not sure I see anything in that article that suggests that MLS will be working with the CSA to develop a Canadian league (if that is what your comment implies), but I would love to see MLS Canada. MLS actually has brand power and would bring instant credibility and knowledge to our would be league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halley Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Nicely done, and you made the interview sound better than it was. That summarizes it exactly. I have been biting my tongue because I knew about F.C. Edmonton expanding Foote Field to 5,500 (what I was told), but now that cat is out of the bag. It is a great facility, except for the permanent lines. I don't add the turf to that, because the turf there is very nice, and the University spent quite a bit on it. It is just the permanent lines that seems to be an issue. Surely that is a joke. The turf is NOT very nice. It is precisely the opposite of nice. It is about 3 generations old, only slightly softer than asphalt, with lines that protrude above the level of the field (creating a very nice tripping hazard everywhere) and bouncy as hell. The lines are only the start of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The good news is that they are gung ho about building their own soccer specific stadium within 3 to 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Of course it is - if the USL will accept the NASL renegades back :-) I suspect the USL is just waiting for the NASL to fail. Those who are claiming that a third rate domestic semi-pro Canadian league would generate the same or better revenue for Canadian clubs than would playing in the NSAL are showing a sad lack of appreciation of marketing and brand value, never mind standard of play on the field. Carry on living in fantasy land my friends. How so? I'm interested in your bull ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'm not sure I see anything in that article that suggests that MLS will be working with the CSA to develop a Canadian league (if that is what your comment implies), but I would love to see MLS Canada. MLS actually has brand power and would bring instant credibility and knowledge to our would be league. Nothing concrete is in the article. Consider though that Garber has stated a desire for Canada to be at the World Cup with the USA. Consider that the NFL and CFL have set a precedent for an American league assisting a Canadian league to develop itself and stay afloat, to the point of promoting it in the USA on their own channels. Consider that the CSA have put a moratorium in effect for Canadian teams entering American leagues (excluding Montreal and Edmonton, of course). Consider the complete and total disarray that is the American second division coupled with CSA's development of several exploratory committees regarding Canadian pro soccer, including CSL members, and now with a related committee that has MLS backing and resources at its disposal. To say that this is proof of a Canadian D2 starting this year would be really pushing the boundaries between circumstancial evidence and conspiracy theorizing. That said, based on all of these factors, I feel that we can safely say the following: "Something is in the works, for the not-too-distant future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Surely that is a joke. The turf is NOT very nice. It is precisely the opposite of nice. It is about 3 generations old, only slightly softer than asphalt, with lines that protrude above the level of the field (creating a very nice tripping hazard everywhere) and bouncy as hell. The lines are only the start of the problem. "In 2007, the field's older Astroturf surface was replaced with a new PureGrass surface." Fine it stinks from a soccer players view, but it is nice, new, and pretty expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Of course it is - if the USL will accept the NASL renegades back :-) I suspect the USL is just waiting for the NASL to fail. Those who are claiming that a third rate domestic semi-pro Canadian league would generate the same or better revenue for Canadian clubs than would playing in the NSAL are showing a sad lack of appreciation of marketing and brand value, never mind standard of play on the field. Carry on living in fantasy land my friends. Also, I think you have a sad over appreciation of the NASL's marketing and brand value. You do realize which NASL this is, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I think you have a sad over appreciation of the NASL's marketing and brand value. Nope. As always he has a very realistic appreciation of the comparative value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I've quite enjoyed this thread! Well done. RE: a National League done right. Well, I am not certain what needs to happen first. The Chicken or the Egg, BUT, once a youth national league is arranged (like USSDA or SYL) you can then build-up momentum and make the top of the ladder the professional clubs in MLS, USL Pro, or the Canadian National League. My preference being no involvement in USL Pro of course. I see no reason BC couldn't field 3 Canadian League clubs out of Victoria, Kelowna, and another city such as Surrey, Coquitlam/Burnaby, or Abbotsford. As BC is developing a new top tier youth league and it is now running concurrently with the rest of the nation it can be streamlined into a National Level youth league whereby all the current top tiers join-up and so on and so forth. From there the professional clubs can be arranged. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloome Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I've quite enjoyed this thread! Well done. RE: a National League done right. Well, I am not certain what needs to happen first. The Chicken or the Egg, BUT, once a youth national league is arranged ... Better, I think both you and Ted are entirely missing the point. We're talking about a high-end league. $1.5-2M a year player salary budgets, proper facilities, key corporate sponsorship upfront. Stadiums. Big time investment. We're not interested in developing Canadian soccer beyond what will naturally occur from a reasonable quota system (say 3-5 players in the starting lineup). If every other player on my home club is foreign beyond that, great. Football is about building your local club, not your national talent level. If you do the former properly, and make money (which about 70% of medium and small clubs in Europe do, by the way), the latter will follow as a consequence. This "build from the grassroots" nonsense has to end. It'll never happen. It's kid soccer mentality, and the market is much, much, much more sophisticated than that now. That's the reality of the modern world, modern technology, and exposure to dozens of other leagues around the world. People want a club. But they won't come out for anything less than the real deal. NASL isn't that quality level. The best of the old USL was BARELY that level. The reason we're mocking Richard is that none of you seem to be able to wrap your head around the fact that Canada has relative corporate wealth now, to carry something like this off, along withthe fact that we now have a plethora of potential television coverage available, a sophisticated fan base compared to the past that doesn't care about Canadian amateur soccer etc. It's an apples-and-oranges. I'm fully aware of the relative expertise and investment of the people currently involved in NASL and if you think it could compare with what we're talking about , you're simply kidding yourselves. NASL teams are budgeting for player salaries of $350,000 to $800,000 for chrissake, and doing next to nothing compared to the required level to either market their gameday environment or their club in general. It's ridiculous. I've yet to see anyone offer a cogent argument as to why an upper-tier league impossible -- or anything much beyond " you're dreaming", from Richard, a defeatist attitude ignored by people who actually accomplish goals in their lives. What I suspect I'm seeing instead is a handful of people who are fascinated by Canadian grassroots soccer, and can't separate this idea from that present reality: a pro league can make money, if it's of sufficient quality for its customer base. What is being proposed, instead, is a league that will simply follow every other crappy, half-assed league before it and fail within a couple of seasons, if it even gets that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The evidence is in front of your nose - the required investors have not shown any interest, even in USL-1 or now NASL beyond the 4 clubs that exist now, all of whom are committed elsewhere. What makes you think an even bigger investment by even more people/organisations in a completely unknown quantity (brand new league and consequently maximum financial risk) with inadequate infrastructure in place is more attractive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Nope. As always he has a very realistic appreciation of the comparative value. Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. But I would be interested in your response to my last post because so far you have merely proffered a dream, nothing concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 What dream is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 If you don't understand what I said there is no point in continuing this exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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