TFC Trialist Ornoch Fits the Profile

[powerof11]

With Major League Soccer suspending league play for two weeks due to the World Cup, several clubs are fortunate enough to use the timing of the tournament to bring in players on trial for when play resumes the weekend of June 26. Toronto FC are one such team where over the last week it has been confirmed that Scarborough developed Andrew Ornoch is currently on trial with the club.

Ornoch has not been a name that is often thrown around when TFC supporters put down their wish list of Canadians they should be looking to sign. However, there are several factors indicating should his trial go well, not only would he fit in with the side, but he could become an essential member of the squad.

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Trialist_Ornoch_Fits_The_Profile_june_13_10_article.shtml

[Ivan]

I agree with the premise of the article. I remember a few years ago, JDG was asked to name an up-and-comer for Canada and he named Ornoch. I also think Ornoch was one of Canada's best players when they fell just short of qualifying for the Olympics in 2008. Top two made it and Canada came third.

I hope he shows well.

[bettermirror]

This would be excellent for Ornoch and canadian soccer. He has little hope of national team exposure where he is/was. At TFC he'll either prove himself worthy, or he won't.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Well, hopefully his career will do the same as the last Canadian player to leave Hercles did.

[SCF08]

He was a bit unfortunate at Heracles. They were probably the team with the best fitness in the Eredivisie and basically had no injury problems. They had a good season ending 6th and qualifying for the Europa League so there was no reason for the manager to look at other players as well.

[canucklefan]

Any update with the TFC trialist Ornoch?

[Gian-Luca]

There's an update here:

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/06/some-friday-afternoon-tidbits-mista-triallists-and-cap-space/

[VPjr]

^ i have heard Ornoch is unlikely to sign with TFC. Expect to see him try his hand back in Europe

[ag futbol]

Disappointing.

I still fail to see why the CSA bent over and allowed TFC to have so many foreign roster spots. At least a few of them have been filled with garbage like Nane Josesph, was that really necessary?

[VPjr]

^ I don't disagree but, at the end of the day, MLS is an American league and many south of the border totally believe that they are "doing us a favour" by allowing our teams in. I've actually heard those exact words from people involved in US soccer. I know that there are some south of the border who see a near future with 3 Canadian MLS teams and only see 18-20 less jobs for American players.

The one really good thing about 3 MLS teams is that it will actually create some competition for Canadian talent, in order to meet those ratios, and hopefully it will drive up the wages that get offered to such players so that they might actually give MLS more serious consideration. We have more than a few players overseas who make far more money playing reserves football in Europe than possibly being a starter in MLS. You would hope that players would opt for playing time over money but, at the end of the day, a player's career is short so I understand wanting to get paid.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

^The one really good thing about 3 MLS teams is that it will actually create some competition for Canadian talent, in order to meet those ratios, and hopefully it will drive up the wages that get offered to such players so that they might actually give MLS more serious consideration.....

The salary cap is also a major factor determining what can be offered and it is maybe worth bearing in mind that TFC's two highest paid players are currently Canadian and that it would be easy enough for TFC to boost their Canadian content by replacing seldom used fringe players Nane and Kocic with younger players like Rosenlund and Street.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

The salary cap is also a major factor determining what can be offered and it is maybe worth bearing in mind that TFC's two highest paid players are currently Canadian and that it would be easy enough for TFC to boost their Canadian content by replacing seldom used fringe players Nane and Kocic with younger players like Rosenlund and Street.

Yeah, to be honest I scratch my head at the fact that players like Poz, Rosenlund and so on aren't the bench players instead of using all the INT spots.

[Gian-Luca]

^ I don't disagree but, at the end of the day, MLS is an American league and many south of the border totally believe that they are "doing us a favour" by allowing our teams in. I've actually heard those exact words from people involved in US soccer.

Mo Johnston though isn't one of them - he's currently north of the border and he's the one who pushed for less domestic spots for TFC.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The number of roster spots for domestic players is something that is determined by the competition committee of MLS (who answer to the I/Os of the various franchises) rather than by Mo Johnston or any other GM within the league (who are just the hired help). The best solution long term would be a return to the way things were in the NASL with Canadians and Americans counting as domestic players throughout the league.

Yeah, to be honest I scratch my head at the fact that players like Poz, Rosenlund and so on aren't the bench players instead of using all the INT spots.

Think the salary cap needs to be raised another million or two before potential depth players with access to EU passports like Pozniak and Ornoch will be attracted back at the later stages of their career. In MLS the money primarily goes to regular starters and the numbers are usually made up with recent NCAA graduates like Kocic and Nane or Americans like Dan Gargan who lack easy access to an EU passport. After a couple more seasons TFC Academy should be providing Canadian content to take the place of some of the latter group or the money invested in it has been a waste of time.

[El Hombre]

The number of roster spots for domestic players is something that is determined by the competition committee of MLS (who answer to the I/Os of the various franchises) rather than by Mo Johnston or any other GM within the league (who are just the hired help). The best solution long term would be a return to the way things were in the NASL with Canadians and Americans counting as domestic players throughout the league.

Yes, but that's not a possibility due to NAFTA or some such thing I thought. And yes, the number of roster spots is determined by the competition committe, but that didn't stop Johnston from petitioning for a change and using that as the excuse du jour at the conclusion of the first season.

[Grizzly]

^^ NASL/USL have Canadians as domestic throughout the league.

[El Hombre]

^^ NASL/USL have Canadians as domestic throughout the league.

Good point.

I thought it was mentioned somewhere that it would be unfair labour practices to make Canadian's domestic as they'd have to do the same for Mexicans.

[Grizzly]

I am no expert on NAFTA but I don't think the freedom of labour movement clauses are very strong like in the EU which has given UEFA some problems in implementing certain policies. Also a lot of NAFTA seems industry specific, ie. rules that apply in one industry don't necessarily apply in another, as opposed to the EU which is a more general all inclusive trade agreement. I have heard people say that naming Canadian as domestic would be against US labour laws as well but I don't see this as a problem either. There would be no clause requiring clubs to have a certain number of Canadians it would be merely allowing clubs to employ Canadians under the current US labour laws without being subject to additional restrictions placed on it by the league. Of course, the difficulty would be getting the league and USSF to remove these restrictions since MLS was formed to develop US players. I doubt it was hard to convince them to lower the Canadian requirements because that benefitted US players (though the CSA should have absolutely refused to budge on this).

In NASL/USL we see quite a number of Canadian players on the US teams who may not have been able to play for Montreal or Vancouver because they are not good enough or those teams don't require someone of their position or style. On the other hand there is a larger American contingent on the two Canadian teams than there would be under the old domestic restrictions. I think there is a big advantage for both countries with this system because it allows for a lot more flexibility. With so few professional clubs in the US and Canada, it can be hard for a player to find a team where they need him and are willing to pay a decent wage. Many players from both countries could fall through the cracks and drop out of professional soccer if their club choices were more restrictive. Since we have fewer teams than the US it probably benefits us more to be domestic accross the league but the Americans also get a significant benefit as well.

Regarding Mo, BBTB is right that he is not the one who makes the decisions on this issue. Yet, on the other hand, you don't get a change in policy without asking and he asked for this change due to his incompetence as coach/manager. Not surprisingly he also didn't do a better job with the restriction relaxed. As I stated, I think MLS and USSF were not a hard sell at all on this issue because it benefitted American players nor are they to blame. The blame should be placed on TFC and the CSA for not sticking to the principals of using the MLS to develop Canadian players and not evaluating Mo as the real problem behind TFC's troubles.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

.....Regarding Mo, BBTB is right that he is not the one who makes the decisions on this issue. Yet, on the other hand, you don't get a change in policy without asking and he asked for this change due to his incompetence as coach/manager. Not surprisingly he also didn't do a better job with the restriction relaxed.

In reality TFC's regular season record actually improved markedly in years two and three as did their ability to acquire quality Canadian players through trades and Bosman signings because other teams and agents had less leverage during trade and contract negotiations. Change doesn't happen if the powers that be on the competition committee see it as a self-seeking "excuse du jour" by an incompetent coach/GM. It happened in this instance because they saw a genuine need to make an adjustment to maintain competitive parity within the league after fringe CMNT players like Canizalez, Reda, Pozniak and Braz had failed to make a sufficient impact on MLS for the initial set of roster regulations to be viable on an ongoing basis.

[Macksam]

Disappointing.

I still fail to see why the CSA bent over and allowed TFC to have so many foreign roster spots. At least a few of them have been filled with garbage like Nane Josesph, was that really necessary?

It was done to help ease the pressure for the early stages of TFC's existence.

[gkhs]

It was done to help ease the pressure for the early stages of TFC's existence.

Well, it was at least 1 part "easing the pressure", of course it was 10 parts "making Mo Johnston's life easy".

He was persistently lazy and neglectful in recruiting Canadians, and managed to successfully beg off on that responsibilty.

I have never met the man, but I feel like I know him well, he fails up. He is that guy.

[BearcatSA]

^ i have heard Ornoch is unlikely to sign with TFC. Expect to see him try his hand back in Europe

Any info on where he has gone?

[jordan]

on trial at vancouver i read it on twitter.

[VPjr]

^ Yup....he is with vancouver....good luck to him. I always believed that was his best bet to get a meaningful opportunity in Canada.

[BearcatSA]

^Hopefully this pans out.