BC NDP may reconsider BC Place roof

[Vancouversoccerman]

I'm willing to put it all behind now, but I'm sure everyone will have their own strong opinions on how the events of the last week will affect their vote.

What's interesting now is that the NDP are sending out their surrogates to spin this as a "manufactured issue". It's kind of funny, as everyone here with a BC IP address saw the anti-stadium ads and heard their MLA's openly talk about killing the funding for the stadium.

This one's really funny...he's going to talk about how the NDP will build the Whitecaps a new stadium...:-)

http://pacificgazette.blogspot.com/2009/04/dipper-push-back-on-refurbishing-bc.html

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

Bob Lenarduzzi confirmed yesterday, that the NDP won't tear up the contract for the roof, and that IF the NDP were elected, they'd work with the club to make sure the roof was built as planned at the most cost effective price.

The NDP has also promised to build 100 new soccer fields. I would like to congratulate everyone on this board who took the time to take part in that NDP poll...because apparently, the backlash from the soccer community was overwhelming, and has turned the issue! That's democracy...

And Boomer's right...because of the pressure brought to bear by the Voyageurs and others, we've taken a major party's political platform that was going to eliminate funding for sport, and turned it into an extra $100 million promise for soccer fields and community centres. Whether you trust them or not, it gives the governing party something to ponder and hopefully match.

But everyone here deserves a big thank you!

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Good work everyone, that is the way to do it.

The problem was never about a party questioning the spending, which does seem like a lot for a stadium when you could build 2-3 MLS standard stadiums for that amount.

The problem was them putting that against basic social programs that most would not argue with, at least in principle. Housing, jobs, social welfare, strong health programs, we can't give all that up in Canada, not at this point in history. But setting that against the BC roof, that was pathetic political posturing.

Very foolish considering that soccer is played across class lines in BC, and has a very strong base in strong left-leaning ridings across the province. Stupid way to piss off a natural constituency.

Concerning the new fields across BC, we'll have to see what it means in the end. You can put down field turf for about 750,000 CDN I think, though you have to control access, meaning you need small stadiums that are properly fenced off at least, and ideally fully enclosed. That would be good for winter play at all hours over a weekend, all ages. But I wonder if the NDP philosophy means grass and groundskeepers galore.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Bob Lenarduzzi during an interview on the USLlive Broadcast of the Home Opener last night stated that the NDP has changed their minds and will put up the 365M fo rthe new roof and promised to build more soccer fields in the Lower Mainland.

[CoachRich]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Good work everyone, that is the way to do it.

Concerning the new fields across BC, we'll have to see what it means in the end. You can put down field turf for about 750,000 CDN I think, though you have to control access, meaning you need small stadiums that are properly fenced off at least, and ideally fully enclosed. That would be good for winter play at all hours over a weekend, all ages. But I wonder if the NDP philosophy means grass and groundskeepers galore.

AT's can vary from in price based upon the # of fields going in at the sametime & if the city does the work itself. So far, Richmond has the best infrastructure & costing in Metro Van. The city can do everything in house after they get the Field Turf. They can keep costs down to $1-1.5M when they do multiples & deliver the field in the same spring & summer. They have 6 11's & 2 8's for only 4000 players.....don't have enough players to use the fields all the time.

City of Van like other cities on the other hand contract out the installations. They cost way more in cost as the contractor has to outsoucre the materials & construction. Time to delivery is huge. The latest CoV AT's are well over $2M & take over a year to do. Add the CoV planning time & it takes them 4-6 years to get a field done...sound like the Whitecaps SSS. This for a city that only has 2 AT's for 12,000 players.

Field Turf is going across Canada doing presentations. Were in Calgary this past week & I'm trying to get them to visit Metro Van to do a presentation to all the soccer community. That's the best way to build AT's is for soccer communities in cities to band together to plan & finance the infrastructure so they get what they need & on time.

NDP plan sounds interesting but unless it's centralize the individual cities will blow the $ & time really fast based on their past record.

[SthMelbRed]

The worst thing to ever happen in BC politics in my lifetime was Gordon Wilson dinking Judy Tyabji and then lying about it. The end result of that was the political party that most closely represented the real politics of ordinary people (we're a country of centrists, at heart), which had finally found its way out of the political wilderness, was left open for a sneaky takeover by the recently crushed Socreds. We now have only two viable political parties, each firmly entrenched at their own end of the political spectrum, neither of which represents the mainstream position. We're left with the only option of holding our noses and voting the for lesser of two evils every five years. Realistically, we're consigned to a future of alternating two- to three-term governments by the NDP and Conserva...err Liberals, each term culminating in the incumbent party being booted from power by an electorate which hates them rather than being ousted by a party that defeats it in a true debate over policy. This reality is why I will never be able to stomach the weasel Gordon Campbell and the opportunistic backstabbers that now control the BC Liberals. They stole our right to have three viable provincial parties in BC.

[CoachRich]

Ok, I'm ahead of myself w/ the Field Turf's "Critical Considerations for Artificial Turf" Field Building Seminar

Date: Friday, April 17th

Time: 12:00 PM to 3:00 PM (Lunch to be served)

Location: Green and Gold Room at Commonwealth Stadium

RSVP to: Shauna Peck – speck@fieldturf.com

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

The worst thing to ever happen in BC politics in my lifetime was Gordon Wilson dinking Judy Tyabji and then lying about it. The end result of that was the political party that most closely represented the real politics of ordinary people (we're a country of centrists, at heart), which had finally found its way out of the political wilderness, was left open for a sneaky takeover by the recently crushed Socreds. We now have only two viable political parties, each firmly entrenched at their own end of the political spectrum, neither of which represents the mainstream position. We're left with the only option of holding our noses and voting the for lesser of two evils every five years. Realistically, we're consigned to a future of alternating two- to three-term governments by the NDP and Conserva...err Liberals, each term culminating in the incumbent party being booted from power by an electorate which hates them rather than being ousted by a party that defeats it in a true debate over policy. This reality is why I will never be able to stomach the weasel Gordon Campbell and the opportunistic backstabbers that now control the BC Liberals. They stole our right to have three viable provincial parties in BC.

Well said.

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

Ok, I'm ahead of myself w/ the Field Turf's "Critical Considerations for Artificial Turf" Field Building Seminar

Date: Friday, April 17th

Time: 12:00 PM to 3:00 PM (Lunch to be served)

Location: Green and Gold Room at Commonwealth Stadium

RSVP to: Shauna Peck – speck@fieldturf.com

Thanks for the info, Coach. Please let me know if they make it to Vancouver...I'm interested in hearing what they have to say.

[CoachRich]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

Thanks for the info, Coach. Please let me know if they make it to Vancouver...I'm interested in hearing what they have to say.

Will do.

Has anyone called out the NDP for their community fields plan? I'm interested in how they think they can do it.

[Vancouversoccerman]

No one has really asked the NDP for any details on community fields yet. I doubt any details exist, as it's a promise that's only a few days old. In fairness, campaign promises on both sides of the fence tend to be vague and cut broad strokes.

Above and beyond the BC Place renos, the NDP have promised $100 million for new fields and community centres. They don't say where, or how many, or how much will be allocated each year over a four year term. They don't identify any specific projects it would be allocated to, although I suspect some of that funding would be pre-existing, such as cash allocated to the BC Summer & Winter Games.

My guess is that it would be allocated mostly to projects in NDP ridings (a tactic that's certainly not exclusive to any party), or projects where a community is successful in lobbying the government.

So, if you have a field you need built, it could be a good time to get your ducks in a row and approach your local MLA. There's a good chance he/she is willing to listen right now.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

AT's can vary from in price based upon the # of fields going in at the sametime & if the city does the work itself. So far, Richmond has the best infrastructure & costing in Metro Van. The city can do everything in house after they get the Field Turf. They can keep costs down to $1-1.5M when they do multiples & deliver the field in the same spring & summer. They have 6 11's & 2 8's for only 4000 players.....don't have enough players to use the fields all the time.

City of Van like other cities on the other hand contract out the installations. They cost way more in cost as the contractor has to outsoucre the materials & construction. Time to delivery is huge. The latest CoV AT's are well over $2M & take over a year to do. Add the CoV planning time & it takes them 4-6 years to get a field done...sound like the Whitecaps SSS. This for a city that only has 2 AT's for 12,000 players.

Field Turf is going across Canada doing presentations. Were in Calgary this past week & I'm trying to get them to visit Metro Van to do a presentation to all the soccer community. That's the best way to build AT's is for soccer communities in cities to band together to plan & finance the infrastructure so they get what they need & on time.

NDP plan sounds interesting but unless it's centralize the individual cities will blow the $ & time really fast based on their past record.

That is interesting, and a bit surprising. For example, with the anti-crisis Zapatero Plan for public works in Spanish municipalities, the city of Barcelona stuck in about half a dozen ATs, most at a cost of half a million euros each. All over top of older generation or dirt. They were fast-tracked along with all other building and construction projects in the massive plan, that is for sure, but all will be done in the months between end of season late May and pre-season mid-August.

I think it is a bad idea for anti-crisis capital spending, as the money is not creating that many jobs, but just to show the speed of the operation. And the relative cost.

Of course there is not a strong tradition of fields being limited access and even fully walled off in BC, not in parks and not at schools, never mind small amateur clubs. So that has to be added in BC if you want AT, otherwise you are risking seeing your investment damaged almost immediately.

As for outsourcing management of fields, that is pretty common here at least, fields are usually officially municipal, and may have things like rec centres beside them or even parking lots below them, but as long as the club manages the field and funds correctly, they have control over it. Just as a point of comparison.

I think we need to up the number of AT surfaces in BC, add some full-sized indoor facilities especially in places like Prince George, Kamloops, where the winter is harsher, as well as isolating parts of municipal parkland for limited access fields that are effectively small stadiums.

[CoachRich]

This is probably why the fields were not as expensive "All over top of older generation or dirt" Field Turf (AT's)are infilled in Metro Van. They have to have that infill drainage & laser level to spec to get their warranty on the turf carpet.

Lights are a huge cost too.

I'm sure most of you understand that Vancouver proper doesn't have a tournament facility & hasn't for decades. That's why BCSA & a lot of tournaments go to Burnaby & Richmond.

Site selection in Van is a problem w/ cost overruns as the CoV wants to put them near schools. So far, 2 Field Turfs were on bogs, 1 of the Astro Turf w/ 2 fields was on a bog.

You are right on the indoor faclities. Vernon & Penticton have the newest

http://soysa.net/soysa/indoor-facility/building

http://www.vernonsoccer.ca/projects/index.php

Most other interior cities are taking over ice rinks as they have indoor soccer leagues.

[Johnnyranger]

AT Fields are very very plentiful in Metro Vancouver, it is just the CoV that doesn't have many, if any.

The City of Surrey alone has:

2 at Cloverdale Athletic

1 at Tom Binnie

2 at Newton Athletic

2 at South Surrey Athletic

2 out in South Surrey by Morgan Crossing

1 at Tammanawis

1 at Hjorth Road

Corp of Delta has 6 or 7

Coquitlam has 4 or 5

Richmond has over 6

Burnaby has 5 alone at BLSC

North Van has 2 or 3 IIRC

Langley has 4

We have a glut of AT fields in the Lower Mainland and that is a good reason why our Leagues and season play on the south coast mirrors the seasons played overseas in Europe with soccer as a Fall/Winter Sport as well as a Spring/Summer sport.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Well said.

I would also like to add this to one of your statements: "Realistically, we're consigned to a future of alternating two- to three-term governments by the NDP and Conserva...err...Socreds...err Liberals." (Just reinforcing what you said earlier in your post)

[CoachRich]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnyranger

AT Fields are very very plentiful in Metro Vancouver, it is just the CoV that doesn't have many, if any.

The City of Surrey alone has:

2 at Cloverdale Athletic

1 at Tom Binnie

2 at Newton Athletic

2 at South Surrey Athletic

2 out in South Surrey by Morgan Crossing

1 at Tammanawis

1 at Hjorth Road

Corp of Delta has 6 or 7

Coquitlam has 4 or 5

Richmond has over 6

Burnaby has 5 alone at BLSC

North Van has 2 or 3 IIRC

Langley has 4

We have a glut of AT fields in the Lower Mainland and that is a good reason why our Leagues and season play on the south coast mirrors the seasons played overseas in Europe with soccer as a Fall/Winter Sport as well as a Spring/Summer sport.

Not sure how you can say there is glut of AT's in Metro Van. If there were, leagues would not have to cancel several weeks of their league play. Field sports organizations would not be fighting over field space. Btw you can blow or blade remove snow from AT's.

Reason our season mirrors the Euro season is there is not enough fields for soccer to play in the spring & summer w/ other field sports.

BCSA is actually trying to move the season but they have been told bluntly by the cities the traditional spring & summer sports aren't going to give up any of their space.

The best measuring stick on fields is the number of players per field ratio. Examples of some soccer ratios -

Rmd 650 players per field....they need to make soccer babies

Surrey 1200 players per field

Van 6000 players per field

Metro Van probably has a ratio of 2500 - 3000 players & that's just soccer.

AT #'s (pls update as it's valuable info when lobbying)-

Abbotsford - 3

Burnaby - 8 w/ another pending

Chilliwack - 1

Coquitlam - 3

Delta - 4

Langley - 2

Maple Ridge - 1

New Westminster - 1

North Vancouver - 3

Pitt Meadowns - 1 pending

Port Coquitlam - 1

Port Moody - 2 early builds

Richmond - 6/11's 2/8's

SFU - 1

Surrey - 9

Vancouver - 2, 2 pending rebuilds, 2 preloaded

UBC - 2

West Vancovuer - 2

Whitecaps - 1, Delta $25M 7 field NTC, AT #'s pending

[Johnnyranger]

I don't know where you are getting some of those numbers for the amount of turf fields.

Langley has 3 (Two at Willoughby Athletic and one at MAP)

I also said 'glut' as a comparison to elsewhere.

The reason this year was so bad for the VMSL and FVSL with cancellations was the snow and the Municipalities unwillingness to clear the snow/allow clubs to clear the snow. I play in Langley and myself and 4 others went out one day last year to clear MAP for the three cup games that were to happen that evening...There was 2 inches tops on the turf and we were told by the city to stop after we had complete one 18 yard box because "we were going to move the infill all over the place"

IIRC the only muni that allows the removal or does it themselves is the City of Surrey.

And this year's weather was an exception more than the rule.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I like your proposals, MUCH better than STV!

I totally agree! I have been advocating NOTA for years and I was totally stupefied when they made NOT ONE CHANGE to the BC-STV. I would be happy to consider a different system but to just give us the same question again? That is insulting.

[Vic]

quote:I think we need to up the number of AT surfaces in BC

Good God there are more in Vancouver than half of Canada combined. It's Turf City. Two million people and there are what? 70? And we're talking about a city without snow.

I remember the guy saying there are hardly any in Calgary.

If BC wants to up Vancouver to 75 and that's provincial tax dollars Godspeed, kudos, well done and write a book on how you did it. But if that's any part federal we have a serious demographic mismanagement problem.

[Richard]

^ We may be a city without snow but we sure get a helluva lot of rain which results in natural grass fields being closed sometimes for weeks at a time as cities strive to protect their investment. You can imagine the havoc this causes with game scheduling.

[Richard]

The Harper conservatives are cosying up to the BC Conserv... err Liberals like you wouldn't believe as the provincial election approaches. Over 75 appearances so far by federal ministers with Gordon Campbell cabinet ministers announcing new federal funding initiatives for BC. Both parties are desperate for votes in BC, that's politics, what matters is staying in power, not good honest government.

[Vic]

quote:^ We may be a city without snow but we sure get a helluva lot of rain which results in natural grass fields being closed sometimes for weeks at a time as cities strive to protect their investment. You can imagine the havoc this causes with game scheduling.

I followed that in the news last year. Still a small price to pay for a 12-month playable season. Most places in Canada it's 3, and if you're lucky 4 months.

I've noticed just about everyone in the country has their tickets and teeth into the half billion giveaway. I just hope the feds do the math. Even better would be to see them appoint someone to do a road show and tour the cities across the country and their facilities and see it all first hand, and then do the math.

[Richard]

^ And btw, if this last winter is anything to go by, Vancouver is no longer a city without snow! More snow and for longer than many have experienced in 50 years. I know it doesn't rank up there with Ottawa or Winnipeg but for Vancouver it was a mindblowing experience.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ We may be a city without snow but we sure get a helluva lot of rain which results in natural grass fields being closed sometimes for weeks at a time as cities strive to protect their investment. You can imagine the havoc this causes with game scheduling.

One of the most stupid public policy dogmas in Vancouver is that huge extensive patches of green are lovely and make for lovely parkland, and that such patches are the equivalent of endangered species and if you even think about altering them people will find a way to chain themselves to them to stop you. So that everywhere you go for half the year you have these soggy bogs occupying multiple city blocks and almost everyone, except those doing market testing for waders or training Portuguese water dogs is forced to walk all the bloody way around them. They are useless space, and so irritatingly green and mushy. Because you gotta have those peat factories on the go all over town.

I say pave a third over, make paths through them that are not simply mud trails, cover sections of them, but that would not fit with the narrow idea of park in Vancouver. Won't ever happen.

Next best solution, since you are going to have bogs forever, is take a part of them and make AT pitches people can actually use from October to May. Sort of thing you can slip past the bog-huggers without them realizing it's PLASTIC!