BC NDP may reconsider BC Place roof

[Blue and White Army]

Who said anything about a "lower cost fixed roof" as an alternative option? All noises from the NDP have been that the entire roof project will be scrapped.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Who said anything about a "lower cost fixed roof" as an alternative option? All noises from the NDP have been that the entire roof project will be scrapped.

The Sun Column ends with: "So it does sound as if the NDP election platform (scheduled for release next week) will put paid to the proposal for a new retractable roof on BC Place.

Presumably they will go back to some more modest proposal, such as refurbishing the current inflatable dome with something similar."

And the NDP banner ad link says "BC Place needs a new roof -- but we say it can be done more economically, leaving resources for other priorities." So unless there are articles not being linked, i'd say hysteria, rather than reason, is prevailing here.

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Hi Gordon,

I can't tell you the reasons now, but you will understand why the soccer community sees this as a real threat over the next two weeks.

[nazzer]

Does Carole James really have a chance though? Just look at her, she looks and sounds like a complete idiot, there's no way she can lead her party to an election day win. Best case scenario for her, she only has a mild case of 6 week long foot in mouth disease.

[Vancouversoccerman]

Here's a pretty good analysis of the NDP's chances this election. The Tyee is generally left-leaning, but I think it's a realistic breakdown:

Why the NDP Has a Shot

http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/04/03/NDPHasShot/

[Vancouversoccerman]

Here's a pretty good analysis of the NDP's chances this election. The Tyee is generally left-leaning, but I think it's a realistic breakdown:

Why the NDP Has a Shot

http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/04/03/NDPHasShot/

[piltdownman]

Haha, green suburban swingers give NDP a shot. I didn't know Wife swapping was an election issue

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

Hi Gordon,

I can't tell you the reasons now, but you will understand why the soccer community sees this as a real threat over the next two weeks.

Maybe, but given the extraordinarily corrupt and dirty nature of BC politics, that transcends all parties and dates backs 60+ years, one has to wonder if the soccer community - which of course would encompass people of all political spectrums - is not being played the patsie.

I'll keep my eyes on the issue of course and see how it develops.

[Joe MacCarthy]

The art of Counter-manipulation

whiteymirbowl at BS posted this address that has a poll "Have Your Say" at the BC New Communist Party's website.

That it is manipulative is an understatement to say the least. Of course the average sandal avec sock wearing granola eater will say helping the homeless is more important than a retractable roof.

Vs your mission is to counter this manipulation. The poll requires a name, address, email and postal code. Here is a site with valid BC postal codes that you can use.

The poll question is

I would like to see more money spent on:

A new BC Place roof

Helping the homeless

Reducing hospital wait lists

Fighting gang violence

Investing in forestry jobs

Providing better care for seniors

Show these manipulative supposed "Democratic" creeps what real democracy is all about.

http://www.bcndp.ca/haveyoursay

[piltdownman]

I live in Carole James riding in Victoria, and my postal code is V8V 3N4

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Maybe, but given the extraordinarily corrupt and dirty nature of BC politics, that transcends all parties and dates backs 60+ years, one has to wonder if the soccer community - which of course would encompass people of all political spectrums - is not being played the patsie.

You're right...that wouldn't be a first. And Gordon, I hope you understand that I do respect your views on the subject.

And of course I realize that the soccer community spans all cultures and political beliefs. But the general response to the NDP ads and threats against the BC Place renovations have been almost universally negative. Many people I know who are card carrying NDP members are shaking their heads that their party is planning to use BC Place as one of the BIG issues of the campaign. They think it's a losing strategy.

And I'm sure most would admit that running ads that place a dead body up against an image of the stadium and then asking people to choose between them is pretty over the top. To go out your way to do it on websites where soccer fans congregate is simply inept. What other response did they expect from us?

But, I'll make it clear again from my previous post, I do not hate the NDP. And I think everyone here knows that I'm no big fan of right wing politicians, either. Just ask Sam Sullivan, our former mayor, what he thinks of me from the last stadium campaign .

We haven't organized a campaign yet to tell people to vote against the NDP. All we've asked so far is they state clearly that the BC Place renovations will go ahead without modifying the current plan or budget, and to stop using it for cheap politics. That's a fair warning shot, if you ask me.

Like most of you, I'm a busy guy. I personally have little time or desire to go through another intense campaign to help ensure that professional soccer has a proper home and can continue to grow here. But, like everyone here, soccer is an important part of my quality of life. If things happen the way I'm told they're going to happen over the next two weeks, I won't hesitate to tell others what a political party is doing to the game here.

[spiral]

The $ 365 million includes about $ 65 million in pre Olympic renovations and $ 45 million in earthquake reinforcement of the structure.

The Roof itself will be about $ 200 million.

Again more misinformation about the true cost.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

Doyle!!! That's BS. Read the poll again. It shows the NDP losing ground to the Liberals by 7%. In fact, the Liberals and the NDP were tied at 40% before the Xmas break, and the only party that has loss ground here is the NDP within the last 3 months. It was by the end of January where the fortunes of the Liberals went up in the polls. Read the polls of polls again: http://www.nodice.ca/elections/britishcolumbia/

You just keep proving that you don't have a bloody clue what your talking about.

By going to the link provided, it would show that the Liberals are a a low ebb, having enjoyed a double-digit lead since the start of the year. At one point they peaked with a 16 point lead over the NDP. The fact that it's down to 7 points shows that the level of support for both parties is starting to level out.

As for the Greens, they haven't been able to show that they could maintain the level of support that they have. Such results they poll would indicate they could pick up seats. In reality, that wouldn't be the case since the Green vote s considered more of a protest vote. In the end, it comes down to who could be the Liberals in the ballot box battle and the only one's are the NDP.

The only hope that Gordon Campbell might think could save him is the changing of the riding boundaries. Only six constituencies survived the recent changes intact. This has far more impact on voting than opinion polls.

[spiral]

I like how they refer to the Roof as a pet project:

http://www.bcndp.ca/haveyoursay

[Calgary Boomer]

I wonder if a change to the roof plan would be a breach of the contract signed by the Whitecaps (and Lions).

What the NDP has ensured by picking this fight...is that 20,000 people who are hard core soccer fans will vote Liberal.

[Richard]

^ Or spoil their ballots or vote Green or independent in protest.

[Richard]

^ Or spoil their ballots or vote Green or independent in protest.

[Johnnyranger]

This is an utter gong show.

I am right leaning, and am not afraid to say it. That being said Carole James and her party need to be valid, for the good of BC. Using the stadium as a rouse or a means to their ends is troubling.

We need good opposition in BC, and they are not. The Stadium funds will come from and go back to BCPavCo. The NDP cannot reroute the funds to other things, regardless of what they claim, unless they dismantle BCPavCo, which they can not do unless they want to tear up contracts with Massive penalties, creating another scandal.

The fact remains that the NDP party is more anti-Lib and Anti-Gordon than anything else. They purport to stick up for those that cannot do it themselves, yet at the end of the day we all know that all of these "leaders" (Carefull how loose you use that term ) and their parties (ALL OF THEM) are self-serving and are NOT for the people.

The Liberals will win this election, take that to the bank. What I fear for is having a piss poor opposition to hold, honestly and uprightly, the Liberals accountable. Every time James opens her mouth the NDP loses credibility, if they had much at all.

BC's biggest issues are (In order)

1. Gang Violence & Culture, and how it should be stamped out

2. The death of certain resource based economies and how to deal with the fallout.

3. Public and Social housing

Fact is BC is the most dynamic place in Canada. We are the only 12 month a year fair weather province. Which means we end up having the largest,per capita, homeless rate and he have to take other Provinces transients and homeless and shelter them, feed them, and provide them with healthcare.

We are also home to the largest forestry sector in Canada. Forestry is a dead industry. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this is a dead economy and puring money in is akin to bailing out mother corps based in Michigan that cannto help themselves. I feel for the forestry folks, I do... But if nobody is buying your lumber and paper products, for a whole host of reasons like:

1. Cost to produce

2. Lack of Market ie: American Housing Markets etc...

If I got walking papers today from my place of employment because of whatever reason that was not controllable I would go to a different indutry. Why? Because I need to feed my family, not because I am entitled to work in a particilar industry.

Gang Violence is going to be part and parcel of this area. we are a major shipping port, and we are a US border city. It's bound to happen. As long as people want drugs and prostitutes, BC will have Gang Issues. No govt is going to cure this once and for all. How the federal judges are armed and trained and told to sentence will. Cops can arrest until they are blue in the face, if no charges are pressed or sentences are delivered these creeps will infiltrate our communities.

BC Place or Gang Violence/Social Housing/Forestry Sector/other pie in the sky ideals is a non issue, it is simply scare tactics and rabble rousing.

My often irrlevant $0.02 worth.

[Vancouversoccerman]

Just an update:

It appears that the NDP are going to try to finesse the issue by promising a cheaper replacement roof for BC Place (possibly the same as the current teflon inflatable). This, of course, is totally unacceptable, and there's a million arguments why. But I'd like to wait until the NDP say exactly what they plan before commenting further. They're expected to release their platform later this week (possibly Thursday).

[Johnnyranger]

I will offer two reasons why that idea stinks:

1) Inflatable Domes are costly energy wise to keep inflated

2) Adding anything but major renovations to that Giant is like putting a bandaid on an axe-wound.

[Richard]

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I am sure there are plenty of perfectly acceptable alternative replacement roof designs for BC Place. PavCo and the Campbell Liberals have selected one approach, there are other approaches for sure. My concern is that since work has already begun on BC Place, how feasible will it be to make changes at this stage without needlessly incurring yet more costs or taking way from the end result.

[Johnnyranger]

Sure Richard, I would have preferred to see them bulldoze the entire thing and build a semi enclosde horseshoe style stadium with Natural Grass etc...but then it wouldn't be a viable venue for Tradeshows, Home Shows etc

They could also have let it stand pat and continue thowing good money after bad at the energy bills

They could also go about retrofitting it on moneys they will generate by selling off lands surrounding BC Place, which will drastically increase in value once BC Place is freshened up.

Understand that the whole notion of it is taxpayer moneys doing this is a red herring. BCPavCo generates this income and has to spend it inside itself, that is the basis for the companies existence.

[spiral]

Calgary Boomer raises a good point regarding breach of contract. The BC Lions are currtently a long-time tenant so I don't think they extended their lease based on a Retractable roof.

However the Whitecaps are a different issue. They signed a 5 year lease with Pavco based on the understanding a Retractable roof would be ready to play under by early 2011, if not then mabey summer 2011.

It all depends on the wording of the lease / contract.

The Whitecaps aren't saying anything cause they don't have to; the Caps know that if the NDP tries blowing the project up... well...

can you say "lawsuit"?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Have you seen any letters to the editor on the subject from left-leaners criticizing the NDP for this irrational approach? Just asking, if there haven't been any or many I will send one out happily.

[spiral]

Vaughn Palmer titled his article "BC Place's fate in 5 weeks".

Now here's a legal question.

Assume the NDP wins and blows up the Roof.

Do the Whitecaps sue Pavco, or the Government?

The lease was signed with Pavco I assume. But Pavco gets its direction and funding from the Provincial Cabinet