CANADA v HONDURAS MATCH THREAD [R]

[trueviking]

i thought klukowski was a bright spot actually.

i would like to see atiba play for his club...he seems highly rated, but is invisible for canada...you almost never even hear his name.

[BearcatSA]

After Radz went down, we didn't get any contributions from our flank midfielders. Hume was poor and Bernier hasn't ever been an attacking presence for our MNT.

[meteor]

got back from the game..a few thoughts;

-Radz was playing his best game for us in about 10 years..really hurt when he went down because Hume had a brutal, brutal game

-Mitchell has got to go. first the under 20's and now the way this team has played since he took over, it's ridiculous. time for the mrons who run the CSA to hire a real soccer coach

-Serioux was a force

-the fact that CONCACAF lets these grease monkey teams pull this BS every game they are ahead in, supported by the central american refs, is without a doubt one of the biggest jokes in all of sports.

[massimo]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

i thought klukowski was a bright spot actually.

i would like to see atiba play for his club...he seems highly rated, but is invisible for canada...you almost never even hear his name.

Kluko does well defensively but his long balls were useless in the second half

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

i thought klukowski was a bright spot actually.

i would like to see atiba play for his club...he seems highly rated, but is invisible for canada...you almost never even hear his name.

Well, Klukowski was caught well out of defensive position on both goals as they both came off of swift Honduran counterattacks after possession loss/pass giveaways.

I haven't watched the tape in it's entirety (just the two second half goals) so I can really comment on Hutchinson's overall play: my hunch is that it may have to do with the job he is asked to do for us being more withdrawn than he plays at club level. I'll have to watch and see.

[puskas]

Poor Radz, there goes his World Cup game forever now. At least he went out on a bit of a high point. He made peace with the Canadian national team and played very well before his injury. Thanks Radz!

[Bxl Boy]

It was home reffing today again...

Yeah, you know which team I mean played home...

I spoke to a french journalist after the game, the first thing he told me was “there was no coaching”

Hume was terrible. Each teacher has a preferred pupil. Hume is Mitchell's one.

In the first half, he played one of the worst game I ever saw of any player.

And Klukowski was totally lost then, he was great with Radzinski, it seemed they played all their life together. Klukowski must play very high and Radz always made the job to win time and let him come back when Canada lost the ball. Hume didn't anything at all and because of that, Klukowski got fooled many times.

I loved Hutch, and was impressed by Serioux in first half. But when Honduras played on the ground and faster, our defence couldn't follow anymore.

Honduras had a solid wall, faster replacing defence => offence than Canada was offence => defence. That's the story of this game.

[koivu]

Mitchell has to go...his tactics or lack thereof amaze me.

In section 217 tonight and felt like it was away match...what an embarassment.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

there would be plastic fields from sea to sea to sea.

But they wouldn't all be falling apart, tripping players and bobbling balls like Saputo Stadium pitch

[Natesta]

I still don't understand why we're playing a defensive system at home?

[elricko]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

i love it when guys take a bad situation and claim that they predicted it after the fact...canada has the talent to play anyone in this zone...look at honduras squad...who would you trade to fit into the canadian roster as an upgrade?...maybe one guy...two at the most.

if you think canada's team is nothing but a bunch of worthless journeymen, what do you think of jamaica and honduras who with the exception of one or two players are mostly domestic league players with a few MLS or low level european league guys.

the 1986 roster was made up of a bunch of guys who played indoor soccer...there is no comparing the quality of the two sides.

My prediction is that this team will not accumulate more than 5 points in their group-say la vee!!!

[trueviking]

^ thats sure going out on limb there...

my prediction is that they will only get one point in their first two games at home...

its c'est la vie.

[massimo]

Out of all the players that were on the pitch tonight who played out of their normal position.

I can think of, Serioux, Hume, DeGuzman, DeRo. Do you guys think this many be the reason why our players are not playing at their full potential?

[FootieFool]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

i thought klukowski was a bright spot actually.

i would like to see atiba play for his club...he seems highly rated, but is invisible for canada...you almost never even hear his name.

He's the guy who makes the play that gets JDG the ball

[FootieFool]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

So when I see us a goal down in the latter stages of an absolutely critical home game and we persist with a single target man striker who isn't getting any attacking support, I sadly realize that this guy is over his head at this level. It's not because he's not emotional enough, or a holler guy, as was discussed in an earlier thread: his latter game situational tactics sucked, simple as that!

Sorry for my emotional outburst...I rarely get this way on this board, but I'm damned p*ssed about this situation.

You hit one of the problems on the head. His late game tactics were atrocious. I would also toss in his failure to adjust to Radz leaving the game with injury as a bad judgement call as well. Hume just doesn't fit into a Radz role and Mitchell failed to shift things around to compensate.

[kcisoul]

i dont agree fooiefool i think hume played fine. i think the real problem the Canada team is facing is the defence not marking thier men. On both goals you can see that the canadian defense did not pick up a guy and someone was left open. plus i really strongly do not think that Canada should be playing with 1 forward. i think hume and gerba should have started and left bernier on the bench and then brought friend on late in the game if needed like they did end up doing. i really dont like the 1 forward thing also i think de ro is a waste on the side ... he can shoot if they were to play 1 forward at least have de ro playing an attacking mid so he has a better angle to shoot the ball. then again i dont know who would play in his position.

[Martyr]

I supported Mitchell when he was appointed but I have been proven wrong. I hope he can take this experience to the bank and make himself a better manager. Obviously I don't have any knowledge of what it's like in that dressing room, but it seems from Mitchell's public appearances that he doesn't know how to inspire the troops when the chips are down.

The players need a clean slate going into the next match. Hart may not be the long-term solution but I think the players (and the supporters) would respond positively and give us the best chance to maybe get something from the Mexico game.

Going forward... Canada's participation in the CONCACAF Champions League is probably the best thing that could have happened to the game in this country. Players and Managers outside the CSA system can now get first hand knowledge of the opposition players, tactics, referees, stadiums etc. in CONCACAF. Crucially, it allows for everyone involved in the Canadian game to make their mistakes (and learn from them) before they get involved in WC Qualifying. Now, I would think that any Canadian candidate for the position will have had to have that experience in their CV to even be considered. It will be very interesting to see how fast John Limniatis' star rises if the Impact do well in the group stage.

[sidney]

quote:Originally posted by kcisoul

i dont agree fooiefool i think hume played fine.

Hume sucked last night (even if you're a Hume fan you have to admit it). Every time he got the ball his first thought & touch was a negative one.

If Sutton had been in goal, I think he'd had a chance at saving 1 or both of the goals.

Brennan should have played more.

Mitchell, among other terrible things, should have two strikers up there, expecially for the last 30 minutes.

We also had bad luck. If we score the 1st half header that hit the post, we're 2-0 up, and the game could have been different.

The field was a disgrace (but for both teams)

JDG was lost in the supermarket for much of the game

DeRo coughed up the ball way to many times

Bernier was an absolute idiot out there (did he and Harmse go to the same soccer/hockey/goon-school?). Any pub-league coach, with there f-ing eyes open, would have seen Bernier's red card coming from a mile away and would have taken him off well before-hand.

oh yah, again, Mitchell sucked!

[ken]

Stick a fork in us were done, too depressing for words. After the Jamaica game I thought that we had been out coached, didn't think so last night, last night was on the players, after the first fifteen minutes they turned flat.

As to the merits of Hart vs Mitchell, all I can say is that after the home and away games against Jamaica the other year my impression of Hart was that he had misused Hume, and did not adapt to Jamaica by a change in tactics or profitable use of subs, the same complaint that is made of Mitchell now. I don't think that Hart is the answer to or problems, unfortunately I don't know what is.

[Canuck Oranje]

In any serious soccer nation, the head coach would be fired after this. Nothing more needs to be said. That's a statement about the CSA as much as it is about the coach.

[An Observer]

I think Mitchel has to go. You cannot get 1 point from your first 2 matches (both at home) and qualify for the next round. Canada needs to demand success in the Concacaf from their coaches. If they don't provide it, they are gone. Its simple as that. Until we do that, we are a mickey mouse soccer nation. Its probably too late to sack him before the Mexico match, but assuming he doesn't steal a point then he has to go.

I think his player selection and tactics have been very suspect in these two matches. First, he starts Hastings at the back. He is not a natural central defender and then leaves are only top class central defender on the bench who plays in the Bundesliga. That is just plain stupid. He may have tried to claim continuity from previous matches but you simply cannot expect to succeed with 2 central defenders who effectively are not playing their natural positions. I certainly think Mckenna has his liabilities but he is much better with the ball at this feet than Hastings which means we would keep possession better. And while he is not the quickest, Hastings is not especially quick either.

Why play Bernier out of position wide on the right and DeRossario in the middle so you are force to play Radzinski out on the left which is not his natural position. This effectively means that we limit our wing play on the right as Bernier is not great a beating players one on one or getting in space behind opponents. While Radz can do it, when he does it means he is usually crossing with his wrong foot. Dero in the center is simply not good enough with the ball at his feet in tight situations especially with his back to goal. Moreover, this formation means that you are trying to generate offense from Hutch and DeGuzman from effectively defensive positions. It reminds me of England trying to play Lampard and Gerrard in the center with both having dual duties to play defense and offense. Its too much to ask of them. The much better formation would have been to play Radz on the right so he could use his speed to get past defenders and cross with his good foot; use Dero on the left as he likes to cut inside anyway onto his best foot; and then play Bernier in front of the defense (or in the first game Imoff) so that neither Hutch or DeGuzman need to think of defending as a primary purpose. They would have more freedom to go foward knowing that someone will always be back in the middle of the park. This should also give one of the fullbacks more freedom to go forward as well. From my point of view, this is elemental but mitchell doesn't see it. The only controversial thing that I would have considered doing was playing at home with Nash or Grande (the latter depending on form with Impact) in Bernier/Imoff's position. This is because the former 2 can past the ball from deep lying positions. The do not offer the same defensive coverage but when especially Jamaica is putting 11 people behind the ball it would mean that they could be the link between the defenders and the Hutch and DeGuzman who could play farther up the pitch.

Which brings me to tactics. As someone mentioned, where did the flowing possession football go for the kick to the big target man. First, when a side plays alot of people behind the ball you can't have your central midfielder tracking back to take the ball off your central defender which effectively means that you have 5 players (especially when you do not push your full backs) behind their 11. That means once you the play the ball past the first of their 11 your are playing 5 against 10. The odds just don't work in your favour. Therefore, you need your centrebacks to play the first ball past their first couple of players to a midfielder who has made some space and can turn and play a quick pass forward or sideways. When you have a 11 behind the ball, you need alot of movement, quick passing mixed with changes of direction out to the wings and back again. The limited times we did this it worked well and we created some chances. In my mind, that is why a Nash or Grande would work well as they are a good link player between defense and midfield and can move the ball around. As much as I like DeGuzman and Hutchinson, I don't think either have the range of passing of a Nash or Grande. I am not sue Bernier and Imoff are great at that either.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[BearcatSA]

Lots of thoughtful points, Observer.

I still haven't had the heart to watch the match again in order to support the upcoming argument, but I remain convinced that having Hutchinson take on the lion's share of the deeper-lying holding mid responsibilites is a factor in undermining this team's offensive potential. It goes back to last year watching him used more as an attacking midfielder/second striker in of support Friend vs Venezuela and CR, then supporting Gerba in the subsequent matches: I just felt his attacking instincts (1 v 1, a quick pass) served the team better. DeRo prefers to flit around looking for space and against defensively minded teams (i.e. not Brazil) that space is on the flanks, so use him and Radz as the flank/winger types alternating positions. Then, give DeGuzman license to push up or support back when needed: he's especially dangerous ghosting into the attack from the deeper position and cracking shots from distance. So that leaves us again with Bernier given the central based defensive job in front of the back four. And IMO he really doesn't have to be that fancy with his distribution in the holding role: he had a good match vs Jamaica with some mojo going in his on the ball play (though at this level he clearly doesn't have the attacking nous for RW) but more importantly he has the first and foremost responsibility of disrupting the opposition's counterattack.

Which brings me to he winning goal, which was poor in a number of ways: Hastings opting to eschew the easier shorter pass to Klukowski and go for a hit and hope to DeRosario; Klukowski, now out of position, having a long ways to go to return to his back line position; an excellent, long distance ground pass from the maligned Honduran RB leaving seven Canadian players stranded on the wrong side of the ball and as a result no one being able to pick up the late man as he stroked the ball into the open corner past Hirschfeld.

That's looked ugly on a pig.

[TOcanadafan]

I agree with many comments made by other posters about positional (Bernier on wing instead of DeRo) and tactical changes (long ball lobs, vs. possession game) that could have made Canada better and match some of the success we had at the Gold Cup. The unacceptable level of coaching, combined with insufficient preparation have spelled disaster against a well coached, slightly less talented Jamaican squad, and a Honduran squad with arguably as much talent that was adequately coached and played as a unit.

It seems that we were expecting more from this team because of our 3 victories at the Gold Cup. The Honduras team that lost in the quarters was a very different squad than the one last night who seemed to play more as a unit and appeared more confident than us - only Costly, Guevara, Palacios (who didn't even start at GoldCup) and Alvarez (who was on the bench last night). There might be something to be said about selecting a team that is familiar with each other, as most of the squad plays in the Honduran league, and then adding the few quality places Palacios (English Prem league), Suazo (Inter Milan / Benfica), Guevara (you have to admit he has talent), Costly (Polish div1). I know Canada doesn't yet have the infrastructure (1 MLS team, 2 USL teams) to have this option.

So for us, preparation and tactics is the key. Our coach has now proven in 2 successive major tournaments that he does not have the ability to manage at this level. And our players didn't look like they were familiar with each other, especially as many of them were playing outside their regular club team positions. Canada didn't have the adequate number of friendlies between the Gold Cup and WCqualifiers to build on the success of the Gold Cup.

[squid2]

A huge and massive disappointment.

1 point from 6 isn't fatal,but not maximising home field points makes the process even more difficult. Tougher than it needs to be.

The difference between the Gold Cup team and this WC qualifying team is enormous.

Gold cup, our team played with confidence and a purpose. Our best players were indeend our best players.

WC qualifying, essentially the same players. In our first two games, our best players are not playing their best football. There's not enough movement on or off the ball, and we're certainly not getting

enough forward movement in the attacking third to support that lone striker.

Main difference and obvious explanation is Dale Mitchell's influence.

Last night was a perfect start, Hirschfeld in net, Gerba for Friend, and an early goal but then it was tossed away.

Last night our best players needed to lead for 90 minutes; that didn't happen.

Radz got hurt, unfortunate but the game wasn't won or done at that point.

But Hume! For Radz!! Very poor tactical decision by Mitchell. Two different types of players. DM's response reflects his inexperience, player out/player in/no further adjustments.

And that was confirmed at the end of the game when I asked one of the players post game.

DM isn't very vocal to begin with, however he's not a cerebral type either, far from it. Talk to him and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Re the field - both team had to play on it - lets move on.

Defenders being goalside is one thing, but 3 yards off the mark deep in your 18 and not being a half step ball side is totally unacceptable.

Stalteri's hokey-pokey jumping in challenge on goal 2? That's some world class defending Paul! No wonder you've lost your jersey at Spurs! Smartin up man.

If Bernier's gonna be clumsy on a tackle, take the f@#ker out of the game.

Personally, if Hume never wears a NT jersey ever again, it wouldn't bother me.

If the defenders are going to bypass the midfield, replace the midfield with forwards rather than just one lone striker and Mitchell's interpretation of a 4-5-1 = at best high school or pub league, not NT WC qualifying.

If we're losing 1-2, what's the difference losing with 2 or 3 forwards vs sticking with a lone striker for 90 minutes???????

note to CSA

If Dale Mitchell doesn't resign, he should be fired.

He does not enjoy confidence from the majority of his players, his peers or the supporters. 12 points remain available - our program requires a "shot in the arm and a kick up the backside".

Interim option to replace DM, is Stephen Hart. Not necessarily a step backwards, nor a big step forward, but certainly a sign that status quo and poor results are unacceptable and accountability

is being sought.

No more "home" games in Montreal; this game belonged out west - Wednesday's game is in Mexico, at least move towards "pacific time". Maestracci, his network and the Quebec Fed didn't meet the new standards set by the "BMO" network, shame on them.

Here's hoping the poor results don't hinder Edmonton's effort too much.

At least with Toronto, we now know fans won't be "ole"ing the visiting side's ability to string passess together.

Bit off topic, but I would really like to see a MNT game played in Halifax, St John's or a Red Deer, etc., - especially during these qualifyiers.

[kcisoul]

oh about playing hume as a forward because that is what he is.people say this team finally has a midfield but i disagree we have forwards playing midfield. raz, hume de ro i know de ro plays mid for houston but i dont he he is best their.