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The Expectation Thread


Alex

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As a Canadian fan I know how hard it is to stay level headed. Much of the time we get royally screw up the rear by a variety of sources. I will forgo the heartache and not mention the many times this has happened on and off the field. Then there are other times when we look to be world beaters. So ladies and gentlemen, suck it all in as qualifying is officially a week away. Since that day in Burnaby in October, 2004 Ive been patiently waiting, hoping, and obsessing. One thing is for sure, I can't take another early exit. I just can't.

So the question(s) I pose is this: At this point in time what are your expectations? Will you only be satisfied with the world cup where any results in South Africa are icing on the cake? What about a 4th place finish in the hex and a playoff with South America? Surely anything less would haunt my dreams for another 4 years.

But first thing is first, lets destroy the VAG this weekend.

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Guest Jeffery S.

My expectations are going to be game by game. To the semi round for sure, and hopeful to the HEX. But since we have not made the HEX in a while, let's start with the first step. I want to see results in the semis round from the first match to the last, 9-10 points and we are through.

I personally think our chances of qualifying are lower than our chances of not qualifying. We are still an unstable team, we give up goals relatively easily, we score but do not control the games we play, we have some huge and ridiculous let-downs at times. The team does not click as it should, we are lacking definition in defence and in goal which are key areas, we get all excited about a promising loss or a close call but should be a bit more objective about it all. We are not a favourite to go to the HEX and should not act like it.

We do not have a quality coach who can turn all that around and the players are still complaining about the CSA, which is nice to hear but is tantamount to making excuses before you start.

I see no reason to be unnecessarily optimistic, and of course I hope they surprise me with 5 wins from now to the end of the year, two vs SVG and three more, against whoever. And then we'll have a lovely 2009.

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I have to agree with Jeffery for the most part. Everybody knows Mexico and the American's will qualify, but what really seperates us from the other contenders for the third and fourth spots?

Costa Rica, Honduras, Panama, Canada, Jamaica, and Guatamala are all equally capable of taking those two remaning spots.

When I logiclly think about this, and put my bias to one side, I can't seem to find any evidence of Canada being clear favroites amongst this bunch.

Yeah we are capable of beating the best in CONCACAF on a good day, but Guatamala and Honduras both defeated the Mexican's last year didn't they? They are also capable. Our latest results against Jamacia isn't enough to convince me we are clearly better than them. We could only tie Panama on a late goal last week, and as for Costa Rica? We tied them at home last year, but could we get a result on their home turf?

Now, if we make it to the HEX, Jamacia and Honduras will not likley be joining us, but we still have to qualify ahead of three other quality teams for a gaurenteed WC qualification. So as of now, going to say that we have a 25% chance of getting that third spot...IF we get to the HEX that is.

However, my expectations are still massive, and nothing less than a World Cup apperance will satisfy me, because we ARE capable. It's hard to be pessimistic with the squad we have, but thats my attempt lol

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

My expectations are going to be game by game. To the semi round for sure, and hopeful to the HEX. But since we have not made the HEX in a while, let's start with the first step. I want to see results in the semis round from the first match to the last, 9-10 points and we are through.

I personally think our chances of qualifying are lower than our chances of not qualifying. We are still an unstable team, we give up goals relatively easily, we score but do not control the games we play, we have some huge and ridiculous let-downs at times. The team does not click as it should, we are lacking definition in defence and in goal which are key areas, we get all excited about a promising loss or a close call but should be a bit more objective about it all. We are not a favourite to go to the HEX and should not act like it.

We do not have a quality coach who can turn all that around and the players are still complaining about the CSA, which is nice to hear but is tantamount to making excuses before you start.

I see no reason to be unnecessarily optimistic, and of course I hope they surprise me with 5 wins from now to the end of the year, two vs SVG and three more, against whoever. And then we'll have a lovely 2009.

Much of the same sentiment with me but for different reasons. I too am cautiously optimistic. The optimism, come from the fact that we have core of three very accomplish players and, with Deguzman, we have a player that can control a game. And that is critical in WC and WCQ soccer. Because, although depth is important in building the right chemistry and environment ( ie.: creates competition for spots),once the whistle blows to start a match, its eleven versius eleven and its equally or more important ( than depth) to be the team with the best player on the pitch.

But if you are objective, there is little in the way of positive results leading into WCQ. One specific concern that comes to mind, is the two leg friendly that we played against Jamaica two years ago. We split the series but they managed to score two at home and we were playing a squad the more closely resembles what we are going into WCQ with. Secondly, the last two u20 teams were poor in terms of individual talent so we will not get the benefit of a boost or infusion of new talent. Therefore we are going into WCQ with more or less the same team that finished last in its group the last time, and second last in its group the time before. Our recent record in WCQ is not indicative of progression.

I dont think that coaching will be that big a factor. We had no better results with Lenarduzzi, Osieck, and Yallop so how can Mitchell be any different. For a host of reasons, this program cant afford the likes of Hiddink, and Sven Goran Eriksson.

I absolutely agree that we are not favourites going in and there is little reasons to believe so. And maybe thats a big bonus for the team.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I personally think our chances of qualifying are lower than our chances of not qualifying. We are still an unstable team, we give up goals relatively easily, we score but do not control the games we play, we have some huge and ridiculous let-downs at times. The team does not click as it should, we are lacking definition in defence and in goal which are key areas, we get all excited about a promising loss or a close call but should be a bit more objective about it all. We are not a favourite to go to the HEX and should not act like it.

The semi final round in the fall will be difficult because there are some serious question marks in these areas but the collective quickness of our midfield certainly helps the team defence, as opposed to watching some of the pylons we fielded in the past. Of course, injuries are going to come into play and will certainly affect the performance: that's sometimes a good thing in that you get a replacement jumping in and really adding a fresh, improved dimension to the team in place of the unlucky incumbent.

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If we avoid the cross field back passes and the refs aren't named Benito we will more than hold our own against anyone. For the first time EVER we posess a stylish midfield with lots of movement and clever passing and dangerous strikers who make and take their chances. Unheard of and unexpected but there it is.

I'd even go so far as to say that right now Canada is playing...wait for it...Sexy Football!!:D

The VAG is powerless to resist such a charming and charismatic bunch of lads..The VAG will swoon before such a potent and virile attack..the VAG will be tamed once and for all when our raging, engorged, angry red tumescence thrusts home with unstoppable force.

We will destroy the VAG and there will be no phone call the next day in hopes of friendly action. We are too good looking to stay at home and play nice. We have sex appeal and we are going to use it.

We are going to the big party on the red carpet!!

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

the players are still complaining about the CSA, which is nice to hear but is tantamount to making excuses before you start.

I have to admit this concerns me a bit as well. Maybe it is a way of taking pressure off themselves, ie. "if we win it's because of us, if we lose it's all the CSA's fault", but otherwise I hope they are not allowing this to be a distraction. The players have got the coaching staff they wanted, they are playing in the facilities/surface they want and they are getting the quality friendlies & playing time together as well. It's up to them now, and hopefully they will come through, and be focused on one thing only - winning.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Secondly, the last two u20 teams were poor in terms of individual talent so we will not get the benefit of a boost or infusion of new talent.

I'm not sure I would agree with that, especially when comparing the talent of the U20 teams to our Concacaf competition except for the US and Mexico.

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If our semi-final round group wasn't so difficult, I'd say that I am very optimistic that we'd get to South Africa. But is going to be uphill all the way--which may prove beneficial should we advance--and our guys are going to have to gut it out and play well, and play well consistently.

I am 100% behind our team, but remain cautiously optimistic. [No football fan who has been through the ups and downs of international competition--hell, even club competition--should be anything MORE than cautiously optimistic anyways.]

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I agree with the Beav, our semi-final group is so brutal we're in a real danger of an early exit even with the best team we've ever had. I have no doubt that right now Honduras also has the best team they've ever fielded, and Mexico is Mexico. I'm even discounting Rene Simoes' Jamaica who aren't going quietly either. So there is danger of another early exit. Since only two teams will emerge from this group I'm not "expecting" us to be one of them, but I'm praying for it.

There is also an opportunity for this team to prove they are the best group we've had. If they make it to the hex then I'm sure they will qualify. I'm already excited about it and I might need heart medication when the big games are being played. My expectations are for some great games, exciting down to the last minute.

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We must qualify for South Africa. The next group of kids will not want to play for Canada if we don't. Hell, the current group won't want to play if we don't. Aiming for the CONCACAF's (stupid) HEX is a given. Destroy every team. I'm as humble as the next Canadian, and running up the score is frowned upon; but this time is different. Respect must be earned. JAM, HON and MEX have enough respect for us to fill a shot glass. If Canada can step-up and play with Brazil, them we should destroy JAM and HON, even away!

If Canada has another early exit, the CSA needs to be dissolved. This is no longer a case of tinkering, wholesale and fundamental change must occur.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I'm not sure I would agree with that, especially when comparing the talent of the U20 teams to our Concacaf competition except for the US and Mexico.

I have to stand by my comment. I wasn't comparing our U20 to that of CRC, Honduras, Jamaica etc, I was saying that ( since you cant go out and acquire talent in international soccer ), the youth side is your only source of upgrade. Aside from poaching. To leapfrog our competion, we are the ones that need to improve. Costa rica for example, has already qualified for the last WC. how else other than new talent do you demostrate that you have improved and are better.

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quote:Originally posted by Alex

As a Canadian fan I know how hard it is to stay level headed. Much of the time we get royally screw up the rear by a variety of sources. I will forgo the heartache and not mention the many times this has happened on and off the field. Then there are other times when we look to be world beaters. So ladies and gentlemen, suck it all in as qualifying is officially a week away. Since that day in Burnaby in October, 2004 Ive been patiently waiting, hoping, and obsessing. One thing is for sure, I can't take another early exit. I just can't.

So the question(s) I pose is this: At this point in time what are your expectations? Will you only be satisfied with the world cup where any results in South Africa are icing on the cake? What about a 4th place finish in the hex and a playoff with South America? Surely anything less would haunt my dreams for another 4 years.

But first thing is first, lets destroy the VAG this weekend.

Is it fair to say we'll ream the VAG?

If we make it out of this group, there's no reason we can't finish top three in the hex, top four at the absolute worst.

But I'm scared to death of a falter out of the gate, and the damage that would inflict on our delicate (with good reason) psyches. If we were to get say one point out of our first two games I fear we'd be left behind.

But let's think positive, shall we?

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quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

We must qualify for South Africa. The next group of kids will not want to play for Canada if we don't. Hell, the current group won't want to play if we don't. Aiming for the CONCACAF's (stupid) HEX is a given. Destroy every team. I'm as humble as the next Canadian, and running up the score is frowned upon; but this time is different. Respect must be earned. JAM, HON and MEX have enough respect for us to fill a shot glass. If Canada can step-up and play with Brazil, them we should destroy JAM and HON, even away!

If Canada has another early exit, the CSA needs to be dissolved. This is no longer a case of tinkering, wholesale and fundamental change must occur.

Interesting comment during the Toronto FC game last night - the Score carried the Houston feed and the commentators were musing on the prospects of Canada making it to South Africa. One said that "unfortunately the Canadian Soccer Federation (sic) doesn't back the team at all".

You know it's bad when rank outsiders see what a problem we have. And before any of you CSA apologists say that's not the only problem, well it's the biggest one.

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quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

I heard those comments during the game. i suspect that the game analyst must have gotten that kind of feedback from some or all of the Canadian players who have played for Houston at one time or another.

Regarding the last point about the CSA. I used to be strongly on that bandwagon with the harshest of critics until one day, I realized that if you were to ask a hundred of those critics, what they would like to change or do if they were in charge, you would get a hundred different answers. And many of those answers would involve solutions or ideas that have nothing to do with this topic. namely the WCQ and/or the MNT.

I am definitely not an appologist and I believe that ultimately the buck stops with the CSA when it come to not making the WC in 20 years. But you know what?, the game is still mostly decided on on the pitch. eleven men versus eleven men. if you look back over 25 -30 our goal scoring record is pretty abyssmal. it stands out like a sore thumb that explains pretty much all of our failed opportunities. Last i checked, you can only score goals in soccer if you are on the pitch but you cant score goals from a an office in Ottawa.

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The group is a tough one but I feel something has changed: our starting eleven is much different than 4 years ago because the players who came through Argentina 2001 have matured incredibly. IMO, Central American sides have done well against us because we've historically given them far too much of the ball. These sides, even Mexico, are quite passive without possession and we can, for the first time, take advantage of this -especially away. I'm not expecting a result at Azteca, but we should call for 3 points from Mexico at home. Same for Honduras, if not a draw away. I'm actually most concerned about Jamaica because they will pressure our defenders and midfield. Guadeloupe anf Haiti both showed in the GC that the higher tempo Carribbean style can give us some problems. I feel the performance against Jamaica will determine our fate. Hopefully Julian, Atiba, and DeRo will be particularly up for these fixtures. If those three play well together we should be okay.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

IMO, Central American sides have done well against us because we've historically given them far too much of the ball.

I agree, too. It's not just giving the ball away too much but also how and where we gave it away. Many of our skillful midfield core have a continental European influence which certainly helps from a tactical perspective in terms of both where and when to pass (I'm sure someone will make smart*rse comments about DeGuzman's backpass in response to that statement, but oh well). We can't get results if we don't make good use of the ball when we're in possession.

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I always set my expectations at making the hex. For most of my life, Canada has been one of the top six teams in the region and a regular participant in the last qualifying round. We've not missed many, even when we had to beat out one of Mexico or the US to advance! This time around, anything less than getting to the World Cup tournament will be a dissapointment.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I'm not sure I would agree with that, especially when comparing the talent of the U20 teams to our Concacaf competition except for the US and Mexico.

I have to stand by my comment. I wasn't comparing our U20 to that of CRC, Honduras, Jamaica etc,

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quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Interesting comment during the Toronto FC game last night - the Score carried the Houston feed and the commentators were musing on the prospects of Canada making it to South Africa. One said that "unfortunately the Canadian Soccer Federation (sic) doesn't back the team at all".

You know it's bad when rank outsiders see what a problem we have. And before any of you CSA apologists say that's not the only problem, well it's the biggest one.

Exactly who are the CSA apologists on this forum that you and other people are referring to. I think the one thing everyone on the forum pretty much agrees with is that the CSA needs a massive overhaul regardless of what our WCQ results are. The problem as Freekick mentions is that everyone has a different solution and many of the solutions that have been presented here are simple, unrealistic, full of vested interests and would probably produce an even worse organization than the current CSA (yes it is possible). Come up with a good reform plan for the CSA and everyone will be on board. I also have to say that there has been some improvement lately at the CSA in that they have given the team a decent number of friendlies lately and have recognized the need to create a home atmosphere with us as a supporters section.

Back to topic, anything less than qualifying is a failure. However, if we make the Hex are close to qualifying and show some progress under Mitchell I would be in favour of him staying. If we do not make the Hex or play poorly when in it then he needs to go and be replaced by an experienced foreign coach with a track record.

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If we want to make it to the hex we have cannot have the let downs that our side tends to produce. We must play good soccer every game (except for maybe the game at Azteca) and take our chances.

Honduras is playing really high level football right now and will be extremely hyped about their chances of qualifying for the WC. So if we can get out of our initial group I think it will give us confidence and I don't see us not getting to the WC. 2 teams from our group will be going to the WC along with the US, so we have a real test infront of us and I think this team has what it takes to come out on top but it won't be easy.

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Agree with most of what is said here; while there has been a sense of optimism in previous rounds (getting excited about Radz in the last round only for him not to show in the first game comes to mind) I do feel that there is a more justified optimism and confidence in this team now. Forget about Mexico and think about taking points from Honduras and Jamaica away, and winning at home...period. It's emminently doable with this team. While Honduras has some reason to feel good, as do Jamaica, what's to say they won't be even better when we have to see them in the Hex next year. No one can complain about the tough group, and happily, no one on the team has been talking about it. You gotta beat em to progress and we've got a stronger mix of NA and Europe-based players than we've seen in a while - and that's another key for us!

as for the coach, who knows? What might some Brazilian coach with a flair for the bizarre have done to alienate one or two key guys and mess up the gelling on the team. If the team is gelling like never before and the guys are confident, then the coach is doing his job. Tactics aside, we've talked a lot about guys being part of the "in" group with previous coaches rather than selection based on performance, but you'll notice that doesn't seem to be the case right now for a change. Not too much dissent from players when you've got a MVP from Spanish league leading the midfield.

CSA can do well in all our books to give us some good preparation games, including a few in Europe (T&T, Guatemala, Columbia come to mind) before things get going. And somehow ease the travel of our Europe players. Why can't there be any sugar daddy's for the men's team - anyone know Frank Stronach?

And for god's sake, let's practice some back passes...

Giddy up, and let's get it started.

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