Is the REVOLUTION ON? they call it CSF

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

This has to be the only country in the world where somebody like Massive Attack (who no body knows who he is and what's his level of knowledge in the sport is) can accuse somebody who made a professional career out of soccer as a player, including our national team, like Bob Iarusci of not having enough credibility in the sport because he expressed his personal opinion on the radio!!!

No wonder we are where we are with the state of soccer in our country, too many volunteers and amateurs giving opinions and passing judgment on real professionals of the sport.

P.S. No, I am not Bob Iarusci's friend or family member or teammate, I just can't stand some of the "volunteers" in this boar.

I am a fan. That's it. I don't coach soccer. I don't have kids in soccer. I am not involved in any amateur soccer associatons.

Why can't people understand that as a fan all I want is to see the National Teams do well?

If people don't understand yet why I question people like Peter Mallett, Bob Iarusci, Ron Werda or Flynn Beharry, it just shows me that you have not paid attention to this thread at all.

Instead, attack me because I'm not falling in line with your anti-CSA for the sake of it agenda.

If the CSF wants to really improve soccer in this nation, it must also be wiling to improve its own leadership. Why are the CSF leaders so easily absolved from criticism?

[Guest Ed]

As a player who represented Canada, he clearly made that statement in the context of comparing other national FA's to our useless bunch. You may not agree with the statement, but don't try to tell me he has no credibility.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I believe that what's behind the apparent animosity between the CSL and the OSA it has been obviously worked out http://canadiansoccerleague.ca/news2.php?news_id=81380 , so you won't be able to create any "animosity" by your self just to benefit your league this time Richard.

You don't really believe the CSL needs the OSA acknowledging that they organize the Open Canada Cup!!! and in regards to your comment about "the few teams that participate" I hope you realize that you're not acknowledging the huge participation of amateur clubs from your province and lets not even mention the fact that one of them made the cup final, the Columbus Clan of the Vancouver Metro Soccer League's Premier Division............... that's not your league? probably NOT otherwise you'll be bragging all over this forum.

Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth and read the whole goddam thread and try to you understand it before you make an ass of yourself like this again.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I am a fan. That's it. I don't coach soccer. I don't have kids in soccer. I am not involved in any amateur soccer associatons.

Why can't people understand that as a fan all I want is to see the National Teams do well?

If people don't understand yet why I question people like Peter Mallett, Bob Iarusci, Ron Werda or Flynn Beharry, it just shows me that you have not paid attention to this thread at all.

Instead, attack me because I'm not falling in line with your anti-CSA for the sake of it agenda.

If the CSF wants to really improve soccer in this nation, it must also be wiling to improve its own leadership. Why are the CSF leaders so easily absolved from criticism?

I'm not absolving Iarusci from criticism in your part, what I don't understand is why a person gets condemn for saying what he thinks on the radio and others on TV say what people wants to hear even though their credibility should be at doubt too and everything is fine, but Bob gets hung from a tree and the others get national recognition and credibility. www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9813

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth and read the whole goddam thread and try to you understand it before you make an ass of yourself like this again.

The true hurts!!

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

When you promote the idea of Canadians not playing for Canada, you should not be a person running the game in this country. That is the main reason why I don't want Iarusci anywhere near the running of Canada's soccer governing body.

Canadians should</u> play for Canada!

Fully agree. No disagreement.

Iarusci won't ever be running the game in this country, get a grip.

None of these current CSF guys will be. Ask them, they are only too happy to affirm that fact.

however, I'm pretty sure DR's family business (automotive after market products) is a multi million dollar business. And many of SW's client's have net worth's in excess of millions of $$$$. And from what I heard about last night, it takes balls to tell a Rocco Lofranco to "put up or shut up" (or words to that affect) - well done SW!

What I've learned and continue to learn from these guys is that there are a lot of "people" waiting for this kind of opportunity - (that opportunity being = to take on the CSA ) but these "people" are waiting for the CSF to sort out their early mis-steps as they enter the playing field before getting on board.

Iarusci's been in the trenches, he knows first hand what Canadian players require. For that alone he has my respect.

I'm just tired of his rants..... he's connected and he should be more "productive" in pulling in x-players to support the CSF's goals and objectives.

Lets give these CSF guys credit for shaking up the CSA.

These guys worked hard to get that D&T report public.

These guys worked hard to get the initial Sport Canada financials.

These guys submitted additional and more detailed access to information requests that have Sport Canada, the CSA, PIPE and the BCSA running around in a tizy. It'll be very interesting to see the connections.

These guys are doing what no one has been able to do, that's get the CSA looking over their shoulder. And Mallet deserves some respect too as he broke some of the stories that continued to expose the CSA's ineptitude in management, operations and administration.

and on an unrelated matter but discussed earlier in this thread....SW

had an excellent idea about the CSL, they should partner up with LT's academy group, develop an affiliation to bridge the gap between competitive youth soccer and comepetitive senior soccer. Take this arrangement National. "Screw the CSA and the provinces!"

an edit

for those who care, JohnTV was at the meeting last night.

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

did some youth coach do you wrong as a kid? did your foot get run over by a soccer mom driving a minivan with one of those soccer ball vinyl stickers on the rear window? LOL. Kidding (sort of)

It's garbage like that that gives these goomers ZERO credibility. Insult the people who support and build the game at the grass roots by dragging their kid's asses to games and practises. I guess the "right" kind of "supporter" is a drunken, chanting post teenage male.

Add on a media member with a conflict of interest and guys who call for Canadians to play for other countries... great group you've got there and sounding better the more we hear about it.

It is in no one's interest to do anything that will negatively impact the people who build the game in this country (men and women). Someone should tell that to the CSF. *wink*

[VPjr]

^ Joe...with all due respect, I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. How on earth can you critique that quote....it's a freakin' joke. Have some people lost their sense of humour.

Why would I, a soccer dad who drives a minivan to take my 2 kids to soccer (I don't have one of those stickers though), want to insult other soccer parents. Give your head a shake man.

Joe, as I told Massive Attack, if you have problems with the people on the committee, contact them. They'll galdly address any concerns you might have.

Fess Up....you're actually a CSA board member, right? LOL

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by VPjrFess Up....you're actually a CSA board member, right? LOL

Err... no but your group showing its true colours is making the CSA look good... and you've barely started.

Just kidding LOL

[Eric]

No body can make the CSA look good, not even them self.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I'm not absolving Iarusci from criticism in your part, what I don't understand is why a person gets condemn for saying what he thinks on the radio and others on TV say what people wants to hear even though their credibility should be at doubt too and everything is fine, but Bob gets hung from a tree and the others get national recognition and credibility. www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9813

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

I think Iarusci shouldn't be involved in Canadian Soccer's governance because he thinks Canadian players should not play for Canada. The thread you linked to is totally irrelevant and leads me to believe you are a ****ing idiot.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

Canadians should</u> play for Canada!

Fully agree. No disagreement.

So than you agree that Mallett and Iarusci should step down from the CSF.

Thanks for your support.

[Massive Attack]

Well, I apologize for getting involved in this debate. There's really no sense debating with people who are totally steadfast in their views as long as its anti-CSA. Any criticisms of the people involved in the supposed revolution is simply glossed over and never really answered for.

I really hope that the game in this country can improve. But if the people who claim to be for positive change can't even been accountable, what's the point of making change at all.

I'm finished with any governance debates. If you want to talk to me on this forum, please post in threads that talk about actual soccer.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

This has to be the only country in the world where somebody like Massive Attack (who no body knows who he is and what's his level of knowledge in the sport is)

Well, I thinks most of the regulars here know who Massive Attack is. In fact, he sits in 113 about three rows up from my seat. But I dont know you! In fact I have been hanging around at the supporters sections at both the Lynx and TFC games since 2000.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

But since this is a fan forum, we can safely say that what matters most is results and to get results you need to produce quality talent. I am yet to see any proposal or idea that brought forward that will achieve, in any way, improvements in producing quality talent. In fact, what I see instead is a withdrawal from the system rather than working to improve the players and quality produced by the system.

Getting financial's, and auditors reports and other reports to be made public is all well and good. But it DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF PLAYERS PRODUCED, RESULTS ON THE PITCH OR THE QUALITY OF SOCCER PLAYED IN THIS PROVINCE OR COUNTRY. If it did or if the ultimate aims were to achieve those objectives, I would full endorse those measures.

Instead, I sense this quote from your post sums up what I think that CSF is all about: "there are a lot of "people" waiting for this kind of opportunity - (that opportunity being = to take on the CSA ) but these "people"...... Which to me, doesn't suggest that the true motivation is the greater good of the game but rather self interest.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Well, I apologize for getting involved in this debate. There's really no sense debating with people who are totally steadfast in their views as long as its anti-CSA. Any criticisms of the people involved in the supposed revolution is simply glossed over and never really answered for.

I really hope that the game in this country can improve. But if the people who claim to be for positive change can't even been accountable, what's the point of making change at all.

I'm finished with any governance debates. If you want to talk to me on this forum, please post in threads that talk about actual soccer.

Massive... you dont get it .. you never will enjoy, watching the National team and being disapointed by its results because there has been no governance change. Its good you have realized you have nothing of value to add to the debate on governance and your interest is in talking about individual players and who should play what position, with never a mind regarding why the better players have signed to play for other nations by voting with their feet and moving to other countries.

Good on you lad.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Trillium

Massive... you dont get it ..

Now that's funny!

[Trillium]

Bill Spiers...

You know full well you as a long standing board member of the Ontario Soccer Association the kinds of decisions made to stifle outside visions of the game in Ontario and Canada.

Did not the OSA in directing the EODSA force the Ottawa Wizards out of organized soccer ..a case still under review and legal risk to the EODSA and OSA ?

The OSA has never done anything to develop non-amatuer football in Ontario without pushing prodding and having total control, indeed the CSL was in many ways a in-house OSA run league until recently.

The SACC movement of academies has been thwarted time and time again in creating a higher level of development and play .. a diffrent route to the same goal of offering choices, you Bill as a director of the OSA have been a deeply involved in restricting change in soccer in ONtario.

Annual GMs of districts always see the OSA reps come down its the same old story of never dealing with real issues and trying to keep control.

The CSF is making the right step in challenging the structure of soccer governance in Canada and seeking one set of rules and one rational system.

I would hope Bill you dont take the side of non-reform and continue to support a failed status quo, its time to step up and change for the sake of the game Bill.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

I think Iarusci shouldn't be involved in Canadian Soccer's governance because he thinks Canadian players should not play for Canada. The thread you linked to is totally irrelevant and leads me to believe you are a ****ing idiot.

Why don't you contact Mr. Iarusci and ask him to explain himself. If you are so convinced that he hates Canada, you should ask him to explain himself and publish his remarks.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Getting financial's, and auditors reports and other reports to be made public is all well and good. But it DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF PLAYERS PRODUCED, RESULTS ON THE PITCH OR THE QUALITY OF SOCCER PLAYED IN THIS PROVINCE OR COUNTRY. If it did or if the ultimate aims were to achieve those objectives, I would full endorse those measures.

So in your opinion Free Kick just what does improve the quality players and quality of the game played on the pitch in Canada ?

Waiting your guidance

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But since this is a fan forum, we can safely say that what matters most is results and to get results you need to produce quality talent. I am yet to see any proposal or idea that brought forward that will achieve, in any way, improvements in producing quality talent. In fact, what I see instead is a withdrawal from the system rather than working to improve the players and quality produced by the system.

Getting financial's, and auditors reports and other reports to be made public is all well and good. But it DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF PLAYERS PRODUCED, RESULTS ON THE PITCH OR THE QUALITY OF SOCCER PLAYED IN THIS PROVINCE OR COUNTRY. If it did or if the ultimate aims were to achieve those objectives, I would full endorse those measures.

Instead, I sense this quote from your post sums up what I think that CSF is all about: "there are a lot of "people" waiting for this kind of opportunity - (that opportunity being = to take on the CSA ) but these "people"...... Which to me, doesn't suggest that the true motivation is the greater good of the game but rather self interest.

The CSF's 3 core concerns are:

a) We want fundamental changes to club structure. We believe that player development is a club function, not the responsibility of governing bodies. We need stronger clubs and who will offer proper SENIOR SOCCER (pro, semi-pro, etc...). Medium to long term, player development can be drastically accelerated and improved. The dream of a new national league (or at least a series of regional leagues) can become reality.

** RESULT: Better National Team because we have better players and far more of them...we'll also keep more talented players in the game longer too because there is a future for them. **

Reducing the amount of overgovernance in the system and professionalizing the governing body that will remain so that more resources (human and financial) can be plowed back into soccer.

** RESULT: more money for everyone, especially more money for national teams, more money for top coaches, more money for quality soccer facilities in communities, more money to be invested in developing the players of the future, etc....

c) The creation of enhanced player development and coaching education standards

** RESULT: Better coaches who are armed with a better plan for how to develop our best players so that the select few who graduate upward are even better prepared for pro (and national team) careers.

At the end of the day, we are doing what we are doing because we are fans, like everyone else, and we want to help get soccer in this country operating more efficiently and effectively so as to benefit EVERYONE. For whatever reason, some people think that we must have some self-serving reasons for embarking on this project but that is simply not the case.

I will agree with Massive and freekick on 1 thing....the MNT forum is a fan forum. This debate has hijacked that somewhat. I personally welcome input, positive and negative, from the V's but I'm not sure it belongs in this particular forum. If the mods are able to create a new forum, cool....if not, I am prepared to cease and desist with this thread so that the forum can be refocused on talking about players and our teams.

[The Ref]

Well said VPjr

This has turned into personal attacks, name calling and foul language. You don't need this. Just continue your work building the CSF.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I copied this from their documents on thier web-site...

Establish national standards for Soccer Clubs, Coaches, Referees and Player Development

• The establishment of objective, measurable standards, based on international best practices, is critical if Canadian soccer is going to make the kind of positive progress that the soccer community desires.
  
• The time has come for a more professional approach to the way community clubs are managed and operated. To achieve this objective, the CSF will establish clear national standards for Canadian Soccer
  Clubs and existing community soccer clubs will decide what type of club they will strive to be.
  
• Without proper coaching, Canadian soccer players will never reach their full potential. As a result, CSF technical staff will develop a world class coaching education curriculum and apply this program nationally.

The curriculum will be based upon globally recognized best practices.

It is imperative that all Canadian coaches are receiving the highest possible quality of education and that Canadian coaching certifications become globally recognized. Furthermore, the CSF will encourage and facilitate the process for high level Canadian coaches to acquire valuable coaching experience outside Canada, preferably in a professional team environment. Canadian coaches must experience the way the game is played and coached outside of our country in order to share the knowledge and experience with younger/less experienced coaches and their players. Finally, the CSF will encourage the creation of a “Canadian Association of Soccer Coaches” (based loosely on the NSCAA model) and the CSF is committed to being a key founding sponsor of an annual conference for Canadian Soccer coaches.

High Quality referees are an integral part of the sport of soccer.

The CSF will establish a Director of Officials, reporting to the Technical Director. Refereeing education programs will be enhanced, based on international best practices, and formal evaluation standards will be implemented. We must encourage referees at all levels to improve their skills because they are so important to the game.

Grassroots:

• The membership will establish the framework by which soccer services will be delivered in their communities and by which their youth players will compete. That framework will be guided by the principles established in the CSF National Player Development plan and the fundamental belief that soccer must be enjoyable for all participants.
  
  
• All soccer in Canada emanates from the grassroots. If soccer is not governed, administered, taught and played properly at the grassroots level, the results will be disastrous, as we are now witnessing.
  
  
• A very important initiative that will have numerous benefits would be the elimination of the existing web of Youth competitive Leagues. The existing youth competitive leagues are essentially the embodiment of the flaws inherent in the existing player development system because, for all intents and purposes, they do not foster player development. They encourage winning for the sake of winning (promotion) and punish losing (relegation).
  
  
• Furthermore, the expenses that come from participating in the existing youth competitive leagues will be drastically reduced (i.e. league fees, needless fines, reduced player registration fees, etc…). The money the clubs save can be reinvested within the club. Youth players / teams will still play competitive games but the competition will be organized between the clubs, and the purpose of playing games will be to further player development. The clubs will decide what kind of competition they want to participate in,
  governed by the principles established in the National Development Plan.
  
  
• The level of competition that a player participates in should be driven by skill / ability rather than by chronological age restrictions.
  
  
• Clubs need to focus on preparing players for a future beyond the developmental and academy programs
  (university/college or professional level).
  
  
• Clubs should make it a priority to forge partnerships internationally to maximize the opportunities for players to further their soccer careers and to experience diverse soccer cultures.
  
• The soccer community as a whole must invest significant resources (human and financial) to create a soccer environment whereby players at all levels will continue playing the sport for the love of the game.
  
  The only way to reverse the worrisome rates of attrition is to ensure that playing is fun.
  

Its a very ambitious project, sort of what Dick Bate was proposing, a bit of what Holger was strieving for, but then where did they go and why?

Free Kick,

If you know of an instant fix that will produce better players, coaches, a national league and overall better results - you have a captive audience.

Spit it out man....

To deliver the one element that you support requires a massive internal change which means the separation of technical, operational and administrative functions - which isn't happening at the CSA under its current culture.

To deliver the one element that you support requires a 180 in how the game is marketing and promoted domestically and internationally. The current executives and leaders of the CSA don't see this. They don't have the funding for this. What the CSF appears to be working towards is incorporating marketing and promotion as separate functions and re-allocating existing funds but cutting through the redundency of what the CSA facilitates nationally, provincially and locally.

CSF is attempting to introduce efficiencies so you can continue to enjoy the single one element that is important to you. And believe me, the NT programs are important to me to, but I'm thinking of my grand kids and their future involvement in the game so I tend to look at the forest rather than that tree on the side.

Read the document

http://www.canadiansoccerfederation.ca/CSF%20-%20A%20New%20Way%20Forward_SUPPLEMENTAL_revised2.pdf

These guys are receptive to the opinions of others.

A good idea is a good idea, regardless of who presents it.

But lets get better ideas and systems in place that will ensure or at least facilitate a greater consistency in overall results and regular trips to future World Cups.

I don't see "self-interest" in the CSF document.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

So than you agree that Mallett and Iarusci should step down from the CSF.

Mallet has stepped down.

Iaruscui should, and he should continue to support the cause as he apparently has many very good technical ideas that will enhance the overall capabilities of our players, coaches, facilities, which is only going to influence our NT programs.

In time the CSF will find a face and voice we can all live with.