Martyr Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Dick Bate is actually a very respected soccer professional. It was a shame when he left. he left out of frustration, knowing that it would be near impossible to implement his technical plan so he jumped at the first chance to go back to the UK, even if it was a team poised for relegation. Losing Dick Bate was arguably the worst thing to have happened to soccer in Canada. The man may be English but he is not a 'typical English' coach. I had the honour to watch him present a session at a London Football Coaches Association meeting about 4 years ago and he was inspiring - he was using key points from Judo to teach kids how not get knocked off the ball. When I heard that he was becoming our Technical Director I thought it was an amazing appointment - akin to England landing Cappello. How deeply disappointing and, frankly, embarassing that he had to leave so soon. We were doomed to repeat this process with Simeos for National Team coach and finally Nykamp for COO. I have no doubt that if any of these three gentleman - let alone all three - were still around now (with the power necessary to do their jobs) the CSA probably wouldn't be in the dire straits they are in now. To borrow a phrase from those pyjama wearers... three strikes and you're OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpsoccer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Pawel Did someone say external influence on footballing associations? http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=509066&cc=5901 If the Canadian government wanted to make something happen in the CSA, I think this is the anvil against which the CSA could be hammered. A quiet back-room meeting with the treat to clean up fast, or the government will step in openly and firmly--and let FIFA suspend Canada for a year or three if it wants to. An investment in the future. The biggly-wigglies of the CSA would lose out on fancy trips to WC-type events, and we could all bleed 10w30 for them. Tough for the WNT, but the MNT is in trouble at best and could use some rebuilding time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by vpsoccer If the Canadian government wanted to make something happen in the CSA, I think this is the anvil against which the CSA could be hammered. A quiet back-room meeting with the treat to clean up fast, or the government will step in openly and firmly--and let FIFA suspend Canada for a year or three if it wants to. An investment in the future. The biggly-wigglies of the CSA would lose out on fancy trips to WC-type events, and we could all bleed 10w30 for them. Tough for the WNT, but the MNT is in trouble at best and could use some rebuilding time. And you call yourself a supporter? Get the Government to step in?! Like they know better right?[}]. Give your head shake. with supporters like you, who needs enemies. If you feel the way you do, then feel free to sit with the Jamaican, Hondurans and Mexicans when when WCQ starts. But I suspect that to you, mindless unimportant stiff stuff like WCQ doesn't matter. Its all about kiddie soccer right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpsoccer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick And you call yourself a supporter? Get the Government to step in?! Like they know better right?[}]. Give your head shake. with supporters like you, who needs enemies. If you feel the way you do, then feel free to sit with the Jamaican, Hondurans and Mexicans when when WCQ starts. But I suspect that to you, mindless unimportant stiff stuff like WCQ doesn't matter. Its all about kiddie soccer right? Actually it is all about developing Canadian boys and girls into Canadian men and women who can confidently qualify for the World Cup every time out</u>, and not patching together a bunch of players (who go out and give it their all-you have to give them credit for that) and wearing out kneepads praying that they actually score a few goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort York Redcoat1555362293 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Keep the Government out for as long as we can. They wouldn't know what's best for the sport or financial success or structure. They'd bog down the progress even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 What I find so frustrating and irritating in this whole affair of the CSA, is the fact that these people (CSA) can move and operate with total impunity. And they know that! If their motives were genuine and concerned, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad, but we know that is not the case. They have been doing what they want for decades sprinkling droplets of success here or there not enough to wet anyone's appetite in a vast ream of screw-ups. I think that our options to cause real and tangible change are limited to outside movements such as the one initiated by a group of interested individuals called the CSF, and prior to that the black shirt campaign. I hope I will live long enough to see success and a total revamping of who control and administer soccer in our country. The future is bright and the end of the CSA is near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aljarov Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I wish you well...hell, I'm an English guy in Kentucky and even I realise how dire the need is for change up there! On a random note - Chris (Clifford) - could you send me an email please, I've been trying to get a hold of you for about 3 months! aljarov (at) hotmail dot com Cheers Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Aljarov I wish you well...hell, I'm an English guy in Kentucky and even I realise how dire the need is for change up there! On a random note - Chris (Clifford) - could you send me an email please, I've been trying to get a hold of you for about 3 months! aljarov (at) hotmail dot com Cheers Al Sorry. My V's email is out of date. I responded to your facebook message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr This is one of the reasons why I think the virtual exclusion of national team issues is a huge mistake. I think that this needs to be priority number 1 for any national organization. And key to obtaining the goals your group articulates. Here is why: You will have to work with the provincial associations in order to achieve any of your vision. But why the hell should they work with you? Intentions are all well and fine, but it is not as if the only obstacle is the currently constructed CSA. Fifedoms and petty regional squabbles and priorities come from the regions. So, you have to bring them on side. Second, and the reason for the quote I selected...you will need money in order to effect any real national change in the way we run our game. Your goal should not be to reduce fees, rather it should be to redirect a much greater portion of the fees the grassroots pay back to the grassroots. By doing this, you also provide incentive for the provincial associations to work with, rather than against, you. So, if you make job one raising $5-10 millions per annum in sponsorship revenue for the national team programs, this is $5-10 millions that are now available to fund the development programs and initiatives directed at the grassroots level. This is an achievable goal, but one has to get the house in order first. There has to be home games properly marketed and on Sportsnet/CBC/TSN. You will have complete and direct control over getting the NTs house in order, unlike the broader, national context the CSF is hoping to influence. When you can bring money back to the table, and provide the provincial associations an incentive to play ball with you, and prove your competence to boot, then, and only then, will you be able to make real strides. Some of my thoughts on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Why do the Provincial associations need to be involved at all. They have no business with the national teams. They just need to administer youth provincially and even that role is questionable. Provincial assoc. and districts run by boards suffer from the same problems on a different scale as the CSA. Insofar as the CSF and its concern about the national teams, that goes without saying. The whole reason for the existance of the CSF is precisely the national teams and programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by The Ref Why do the Provincial associations need to be involved at all. They have no business with the national teams. They just need to administer youth provincially and even that role is questionable. Provincial assoc. and districts run by boards suffer from the same problems on a different scale as the CSA. Insofar as the CSF and its concern about the national teams, that goes without saying. The whole reason for the existance of the CSF is precisely the national teams and programs. I really could not have said it better myself. - we care deeply about the national team program and we care deeply about the development of high level "senior" soccer - if you read our plan, you don't see any mention of provincial associations, do you? there is a reason for this. We believe that the important functions currently being provided by the provincial associations can be accomplished by Regional Soccer Centers that are run by the national organization and are staffed by employees of the national organization. We want an integrated structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The Supplement to the 1st CSF document is now available for your perusal. http://www.bcsoccerweb.com/articles-february/csf-feb-25.htm the CSF website will be updated by tomorrow (www.canadiansoccerfederation.ca) the supplement starts on Page 5 (in red). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 I like the supplement to the 1st CSF document so far, but it needs some fine tuning of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Eric I like the supplement to the 1st CSF document so far, but it needs some fine tuning of course. We think it's pretty good but its far from perfect. Once we are able to solicit input from people from coast to coast, it will start to really take shape. Baby steps for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Still hardly a mention of the national teams. Still a document that seems to promote the agendas of soccer moms and amateur soccer clubs instead of setting forth a real plan to reform how the game is run nationally. As I mentioned in another thread, I and many other critics of this project are as fed up with the CSA as you guys are. You are preaching to the converted and if you can't win us over good luck with the general public/politicians/other important people who don't even know what the CSA is let alone that it is terribly mismanaged. I want reform but I want reform that will improve the governing body of soccer whether it is the CSA or a replacement organization. As far as I can see the CSA is bad and the CSF is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I don't think the CSF has to 'win' any one over. People will go with what is best. And in this case the CSF, as I see it, is better. Anything is better than the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Latest musings of George "the Fossil" Gross. Surprisingly no mention of anything Czech or Andra and Red Kelly. Canadian soccer leaves Iarusci fuming http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Gross/2008/02/25/4875068-sun.html A few years ago, Bob Iarusci was one of the stalwarts of the Canadian men's soccer team. He was calm, collected and talented, just as he is as co-host of the Thursday soccer show on the FAN 590. These days, however, he is upset the way the Canadian Soccer Association, a buddy-buddy group, handles the fortunes -- or perhaps misfortunes -- of the Canadian national team. Small wonder, he feels, that the team is not among the top 50 in the world. "I'm fed up with the state of our game and the mediocre (at best) governance we had to endure as players directly," he wrote to me recently, "and now, as people who are directly involved in the management of soccer at every level. "When I played, we had developed a pretty strong team (no thanks to the CSA), but rather the NASL (North American Soccer League) where all of our players were playing. We qualified for the World Cup in Mexico in 1986 and should have qualified for Spain four years earlier. (We were coached by a high school coach from Chiliwack, B.C., with no offence to Chiliwack.) We were a better side than the U.S. then. "Today, we are in complete disarray, with no light at the end of the tunnel. I'm going to rally my fellow Canadian national team players from the past to get behind this movement (the newly created Canadian Soccer Federation), players like Jason DeVos, Bruce Wilson, Bobby Lenarduzzi, Bruce Twamley, Les Wilson, etc." There is no doubt that soccer in Canada has major problems. But just how could the CSF and some of its capable executives (edit: HUH! ROTFLMAO) take over from the impotent CSA, is difficult to predict. And if they need some help from me, they can count on it. SUPPORT THE LADIES The current national women's senior team is determined to become the first Canadian side to qualify for the Olympics by finishing on or near the top of the CONCACAF qualification tournament in Mexico from April 2-13. Canadian clubs and fans can encourage the team by e-mailing the squad at: believe@soccercan.ca or by sending fax messages to 778-330-1396. All mailed items must arrive in Vancouver by March 25. Incidentally, the draw for the qualifying tourney will be held today in New York. CORNER KICKS Gyula Grosics, the great goalkeeper of the Hungarian national team in the 1950s, recently underwent a lung operation in Budapest. He was in goal when Hungary became the first European side to defeat England 6-3 at Wembley in 1953 ... An English group purchased the famous Hungarian team Ferencvaros Budapest and promised to build a new stadium for the team within three years ... Canada's men's under-23 team announced the names of 30 provisionally selected players for the eight-team CONCACAF Olympic qualification tournament, beginning March 12 at Carson, Calif. Only four of the 30 nominated by coach Nick Dasovic are from Toronto, including Toronto FC's Andrea Lombardo ... David Beckham leads the Los Angeles Galaxy of MLS to the Pan-Pacific Championship in Hawaii. The other teams involved in the tourney are Houston Dynamo, Japan's Gamba Osaka and Australia's Sydney FC. Hopefully, this time Beckham will play ... Canada's men's team will face Panama in a friendly match at Panama City on June 6. The game is a tuneup for Canada's 2010 World Cup qualifier against Saint Vincent & the Grenadines on June 15 ... Three interesting UEFA Championship matches will be broadcast by TLN: AC Milan versus Arsenal on March 4, Real Madrid vs. AS Roma on March 5 and Inter Milan vs. Liverpool on March 11. All telecasts start at 2:35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Anything but the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by The RefAnything is better than the CSA. quote:Originally posted by Soju Anything but the CSA. Noone disputes that the CSA is poorly run but to assert that it is not possible to replace it by something worse is ludicrous, ignorant and irresponsible. In fact, if an even worse federation were put in charge of Canadian soccer it would be an absolute catastrophe that may absolutely destroy the sport in this country. We need an informed and well thought out plan for reforming the CSA with the input and support of respected Canadian soccer figures like Craig Forrest, Paul James and Tony Waiters not an amateur plan by special interest groups like the CSF proposal. I am not impressed by Maestracci or Montagliani but if the quality of person replacing is represented by Bob Iarusci well then: No Thanks! We need positive reform and improvement not just reform for reform's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Gross must be speaking about a different Iarusci than the one I've seen. A stalwart from a "few years ago"?? If by "few" he means "at least a quarter of a century" ago then that would be accurate, and I don't ever recall him being "cool, calm, collected" on the air (not that I'm saying he should be). I also think his criticisms & his comparison to how the national team was in the early 80's seem to miss the point, or rather make the point that several of us are making - that the success of the national teams has far more to do with the state of the professional/club game in Canada than it does with the association. Having said that, if Bob can rally former players around him for a positive change (ie. not a money-depleting war at the exact wrong time) then some good might come out of this in keeping the CSA accountable & might result in improvement. But at the moment that is very much an "if". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Still hardly a mention of the national teams. Still a document that seems to promote the agendas of soccer moms and amateur soccer clubs instead of setting forth a real plan to reform how the game is run nationally. As I mentioned in another thread, I and many other critics of this project are as fed up with the CSA as you guys are. You are preaching to the converted and if you can't win us over good luck with the general public/politicians/other important people who don't even know what the CSA is let alone that it is terribly mismanaged. I want reform but I want reform that will improve the governing body of soccer whether it is the CSA or a replacement organization. As far as I can see the CSA is bad and the CSF is worse. It is unfortunate that you are totally misunderstanding the point of what we are doing and the severity of the problems within Canadian soccer (as a whole) but I respect your right to have a dissenting opinion. BTW, we do discuss the national teams in greater detail in the supplemental and make it quite clear that national teams would never be diminished but rather enhanced. To go into detail on how to "fix" the national teams is innappropriate because that would be the esponsibility of technical director. We clearly have our own opinions but we aren't going to be the people in charge at the end of the day (we're just a steering committee after all) so what does my prsonal opinion matter on that particular topic. You either choose to believe that the national teams will be treated better under the new system we propose or you dont believe it, Clearly you do not believe they will. I argue that the national teams will be a source of pride and will have the funding to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Noone disputes that the CSA is poorly run but to assert that it is not possible to replace it by something worse is ludicrous, ignorant and irresponsible. In fact, if an even worse federation were put in charge of Canadian soccer it would be an absolute catastrophe that may absolutely destroy the sport in this country. We need an informed and well thought out plan for reforming the CSA with the input and support of respected Canadian soccer figures like Craig Forrest, Paul James and Tony Waiters not an amateur plan by special interest groups like the CSF proposal. I am not impressed by Maestracci or Montagliani but if the quality of person replacing is represented by Bob Iarusci well then: No Thanks! We need positive reform and improvement not just reform for reform's sake. Wow!!! talking about being negative ........... what is your suggestion for change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Noone disputes that the CSA is poorly run but to assert that it is not possible to replace it by something worse is ludicrous, ignorant and irresponsible. In fact, if an even worse federation were put in charge of Canadian soccer it would be an absolute catastrophe that may absolutely destroy the sport in this country. We need an informed and well thought out plan for reforming the CSA with the input and support of respected Canadian soccer figures like Craig Forrest, Paul James and Tony Waiters not an amateur plan by special interest groups like the CSF proposal. Speaking of Paul James, click on this link: http://www.goltv.ca/ then click on video and look for Extra Time Season 2 Episode 18, where they discuss this very issue and Paul James makes some excellent points, which I totally agree with, about the CSF and where they could be of some value if they change the nature of their movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 ^ G-L, I'm not so sure PJ thinks we need to change "the nature of the movement" as much as you might have inferred from the TV show. By the way, we hope/expect to soon be able to release the names of "respected Canadian soccer figures" who are in support of our "amateur plan". The amount of feedback from those types of people has been overwhelmingly supportive. The next few days are going to be very busy preparing for Thursday night's meeting. We are, as always, open to any suggestions/recommendations. We've got no problem with criticism either but I think it would be better to try to be constructive with your criticism. We won't be dissuaded from moving forward with this so if you do believe that reform of Canadian soccer is necessary (whether your interest lies only with the NT's or somewhere else), feel free to provide your 2 cents. I can assure you that every comment gets compiled and is considered. Some of the feedback we got since releasing the 1st doc on Feb 11 were incorporated into the supplemental. Hope to see some of the local V's on Thursday night. Feel free to make the trek to Woodbridge if you are curious. We hope to make our way out to other provinces in the next couple of months too. Vancouver is looking like a possibility in late April / early May (assuming all goes well with the 1st meeting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ G-L, I'm not so sure PJ thinks we need to change "the nature of the movement" as much as you might have inferred from the TV show. Well unless he's done a complete 180 since that segment was recorded, I don't see how else his statements can be interpreted. He said exactly what I've been suggesting in recent weeks, about the CSF group acting as a lobbying group rather than trying to establish a new federation, which it is clear he doesn't think is going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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