Is the REVOLUTION ON? they call it CSF

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

if the CSF thinks cutting funding to the MNT in a WCQ year is a good thing for Canadian soccer, then the CSF is just as ill conceived as the CSA.

Please tell me where I say that the CSF will cut funding to the MNT in a WCQ year? I've read and re-read the statement you quote and don't see it. Am I missing something.

As I say OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER the CSF would be stupid to think that we can gain widescale support for our plans if anything negative was done to the national team programs. I don't know how much more clearly I need to make this clear. We are PROUD Canadians. We love this country. We love soccer. We want soccer in this country to be more successful. We don't believe that the way the sport is governed and organized will allow us to achieve long term success. That's it. Really.

[RamR]

What is the vision for a national league? It seems that Canada faces some unique and imposing hurdles with regard to creating such a league. Geography is one major hurdle as I see it. Would a professional league be best done on a regional level with some sort of national championship?

I'm curious to read what thoughts others have on this aspect of Canadian soccer. An aspect which, by most accounts, is essential to moving soccer forward in the country as well as aid in the progress of the national team.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

The CSF document states that one of it's goals is to foster unity in the soccer community, and yet amongst the first public statements the CSF makes is to issue a threat. Do you not see how insincere this makes that document look, and why so many have a hard time taking it seriously?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

[red]If the membership is unhappy with how the money they collect is spent, do they not have a right to do anything about it. They don't have the type of direct voting power that you think so their financial influence is all they've got.

You keep shifting the goalposts of the argument. I ask how the stated goal of unity with everyone involved with soccer can be reconciled with the "we're going to start a war with those we don't agree with" mentality, and you respond by ignoring that & going into a justification why it's okay to go to war. My point was not that there was no legitimate beef with the CSA, but that it becomes difficult to take a new organization seriously if at the very first opportunity they get they show themselves un-interested in pursuing their self-stated goals.

quote:

I'd like to know how you are so sure that the membership would want to cut funding to the national teams?

Who said anyone was sure? We are stating that it is a distinct possibility. If funding is cut, it very likely means the programs will suffer, either through less staff or less programs or cheaper programs. That means the Greg Suttons or Julian De Guzman's of the world who want team Doctors on the trip & first class flights to reduce flight-time & improve performance aren't likely to get it, because those are the type of things that are easiest to cut (if we even have them to begin with). The membership can demand less lavish trips & more frugal expenditures all they want, ensuring that this happens will be nearly impossible. Is the CSA (or even the CSF) supposed to have every decision they make approved and scrutinized by and justified to its members even at a micro level? No organization can work successfully that way.

quote:

[red]I agree its tough to trust FIFA, but where exactly do you get the sense that we are setting up a "seperate memebership". We are appealing to the current membership to use the power they have at their disposal to fight to reform soccer in Canada. It's well within the rights of the membership (and keep in mind that all the members of the CSF are part of the CSA membership) to demand change. The CSA is the body recognized by FIFA.

But presumably if you do not pay membership dues, you will no longer a member of the organization. That's usually how it works. And that appears to be the route proposed. I don't see anything in the CSF document that says the plan is to stay a part of the CSA, instead I see several references (including the first line of the misison statement) to creating a new national governing body called the CSF.

If that's not what you are proposing, then you need to make that a lot clearer than it actually is.

quote:

The us-against-them mentality that you describe is perpetuated by the powers that be currently.

I'd say it's also be perpetuated by the CSF, if that Flyn Beharry interview is anything to go by, and I worry that it is a sentiment that is going to be fostered in future if the plan is what Beharry says it is. Hence my initial point above.

I could go on & on, but I won't. I've spent enough time on this & I'm sure people are probably sick of reading it. The fact is, absent further information, I remain concerned that what is being proposed will at best not improve things at all & at worst make things even worse.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Dino,

I noticed in your back-and-forth with G/L that you mentioned concerns over excessive expenditures on travel and other events. If you have enough CSA members who are willing investigate these allegations, you could likely force the Association into engaging auditors to give you a special report on the results of applying specified audit procedures to certain expense accounts. If you found the right mid-sized firm in Southern Ontario I'm sure this could be done for $10,000 or so. If you can obtain some objective proof of impropriety, you should be able to connect enough dots to force some resignations. I don't know if that would be helpful in bringing in new blood to adopt the Deloitte report or some other alternative, but it's a low cost option to obtain some backup for your claims.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Is it just me or do these CSF goomers sound like "white cats"

Mouseland (As told by Tommy Douglas in 1944)

http://www.saskndp.com/history/mouseland.html

Mouseland was a place where all the little mice lived and played, were born and died. And they lived much the same as you and I do.

They even had a Parliament. And every four years they had an election. Used to walk to the polls and cast their ballots. Some of them even got a ride to the polls. And got a ride for the next four years afterwards too. Just like you and me. And every time on election day all the little mice used to go to the ballot box and they used to elect a government. A government made up of big, fat, black cats.

Now if you think it strange that mice should elect a government made up of cats, you just look at the history of Canada for last 90 years and maybe you'll see that they weren't any stupider than we are.

Now I'm not saying anything against the cats. They were nice fellows. They conducted their government with dignity. They passed good laws--that is, laws that were good for cats. But the laws that were good for cats weren't very good for mice. One of the laws said that mouseholes had to be big enough so a cat could get his paw in. Another law said that mice could only travel at certain speeds--so that a cat could get his breakfast without too much effort.

All the laws were good laws. For cats. But, oh, they were hard on the mice. And life was getting harder and harder. And when the mice couldn't put up with it any more, they decided something had to be done about it. So they went en masse to the polls. They voted the black cats out. They put in the white cats.

Now the white cats had put up a terrific campaign. They said: "All that Mouseland needs is more vision." They said:"The trouble with Mouseland is those round mouseholes we got. If you put us in we'll establish square mouseholes." And they did. And the square mouseholes were twice as big as the round mouseholes, and now the cat could get both his paws in. And life was tougher than ever. And when they couldn't take that anymore, they voted the white cats out and put the black ones in again. Then they went back to the white cats. Then to the black cats. They even tried half black cats and half white cats. And they called that coalition. They even got one government made up of cats with spots on them: they were cats that tried to make a noise like a mouse but ate like a cat.

You see, my friends, the trouble wasn't with the colour of the cat. The trouble was that they were cats. And because they were cats, they naturally looked after cats instead of mice.

Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea. And he said to the other mice, "Look fellows, why do we keep on electing a government made up of cats? Why don't we elect a government made up of mice?" "Oh," they said, "he's a Bolshevik. Lock him up!"

So they put him in jail.

But I want to remind you: that you can lock up a mouse or a man but you can't lock up an idea.

[Toronto MB]

After taking some time to read through most of this thread, and allowing the concept of a new CSF to sink in for a few days, here are some thoughts for whatever its worth:

1. While the CSA is obviously inept and an impediment to any kind of real progress, they are still a million dollar association with some long-standing experience and procedures. Yes they are doing a bad job. Yes the system for governance needs to be revamped. Yes there needs to be a greater focus on the national teams, from professional development to hands on management. And yes I believe the accountable executives need to have their positions terminated. That being said: I simply don't see the creation of a new federation/association to be the most effective and realistic way to resolve the problems with soccer governance and development in Canda.

2. Recently there has been a spattering of anti-CSA media, which in combination with the Deloitte review that was informally released, creates a semi-legitimate awarenesss of the CSA's ills. However, this does not nearly stack-up to a properly commisioned and directed review such as the Crawford report in Australia. My belief is that a group of well meaning soccer advocates, with basically no funding or resources can not successfully topple the CSA and effect positive reforms. Perhaps a much more powerful decision would be to pursue an independant review of the CSA authored by a combination of government, private sector accounting and technical soccer representatives. (The Crawford report does lay a good blueprint for us here)

3. I just wanted again to applaud Dino and co for taking some leadership on the issue and opening the concept up for public debate. I will be in England watching Hume, Bircham, Jackson and Peters next week, so I won't be in attendance but I encourage all others to be there if possible.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Toronto MB, that was one of the best posts I've read in this thread.

What the CSA really needs and nobody has addressed this, is one good leader.

A Bob Nicholson, Ken Read or even crazy Dick Pound, someone with enough profile and clout to keep all the mini dictators and their fiefdoms in line and have enough business savvy to raise sponsorship levels.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Toronto MB, that was one of the best posts I've read in this thread.

What the CSA really needs and nobody has addressed this, is one good leader.

A Bob Nicholson, Ken Read or even crazy Dick Pound, someone with enough profile and clout to keep all the mini dictators and their fiefdoms in line and have enough business savvy to raise sponsorship levels.

quote:Originally posted by Eric

According to a few comments posted here, all the CSA needs to do is to adjust certain areas and it should be back on track in no time. To me personally adjusting and not changing the people who runs the operations of the CSA it would be a huge mistake. The group working to get the CSF going are without a doubt a very passionate and energetic group of real soccer fans with good ideas. Why instead of getting rid of the CSA, don't we try to find a way to vote them out of the board and replace them with the CSF group? isn't this a democratic country, voting is the power of democracy!!! yeah I know......... dream on......

I mentioned it!!

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Toronto MB, that was one of the best posts I've read in this thread.

What the CSA really needs and nobody has addressed this, is one good leader.

A Bob Nicholson, Ken Read or even crazy Dick Pound, someone with enough profile and clout to keep all the mini dictators and their fiefdoms in line and have enough business savvy to raise sponsorship levels.

Yes, that would be a bandaid for the organisation but much more is needed to resolve flaws for the long term. Implement the Deloitte recommendations for one. I am not one who is advocating the total dissolution of the CSA or its replacement with the CSF or whatever, but major structural and governance reform is sorely needed and if it takes a Dick Pound type to achieve that with support from an impassioned lobby group such as the CSF then let's go for it. Linford tried and failed.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Toronto MB, that was one of the best posts I've read in this thread.

What the CSA really needs and nobody has addressed this, is one good leader.

A Bob Nicholson, Ken Read or even crazy Dick Pound, someone with enough profile and clout to keep all the mini dictators and their fiefdoms in line and have enough business savvy to raise sponsorship levels.

The national governing body of Canadian soccer indeed needs a good leader surrounded by excellent people (1 person is not enough to turn this ship around by themself...trust me).

Here's the rub...Who in their right mind wants the job of "CEO" or "Sec General" or whatever you want to call, with the present governance structure in place. You won't really be in charge and you wont really have autonomy. If the current group in charge was really interested in implementing that aspect of the D&T report (and it is one of the bigger recommendations), they would have gone through with the hiring of Nykamp (for better or for worse) and let him have the authority he wanted and that the search committee had promised. Instead, when presented to the board as a whole, they ran away from the deal and ultimately have paid him a hefty amount of money to keep quiet about it all.

The solutions needed are never as simple as they seem. But, I will agree that a high profile person at the top of the organization would do wonders, but only if supported by a Board that does what a board is supposed to do (provide oversight, assist in strategic plan). There are a number of people who would be very good for the job.

[The Ref]

Instead of a modified and enhanced CSA, I still prefer a brand new type of professional organization such as the Canadian Soccer Federation. And I approve this message.

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by RichardLinford tried and failed.

Colin Linford, Fred Nykamp aren't in the same league as a Bob Nicholson. And provided that they could come up with a little dough, the governance structures wouldn't worry a good leader at all, they'd just walk over it.

I did corporate recruiting and there is always someone who is bored and looking for a big challenge. Money isn't even an issue except these guys need the big dough more to keep up their profile but it isn't the main motivation.

The main motivation is that I am the one man/woman smart enough, cocky enough, with guts enough to turn this disaster around. Don't underestimate the appeal of this. I would think the lack of high profile applicants is not because of the CSA itself but the low profile of soccer in this country (for which the CSA is partially to blame).

[Richard]

^ Don't think I would appreciate a corporate leader who ignores the constitutional governance structure and 'walks all over it' as you say. As a former ceo myself I would definitely not hire a person with that kind of attitude. When he goes chaos will reign. Far better to fix the defective governance structure AND recruit a competent chief executive.

And Linford failed not necessarily because he was not a competent manager but because the governance structure defeated him. Nykamp never was given the opportunity to show what he was capable of except he was smart enough to sue the pants off the CSA for what the dysfunctional board did to him because of a broken governance structure.

[Cheeta]

Just want to mention Jerrad Peters at The Winnipeg Free Press gave probably 6 inches of column to this subject in Saturdays 400,000 copies. Aside from Saturday issues the Free Press doesn't give very good coverage to soccer so bit of a scoop appearing in one of the countries best read daily papers.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Just want to mention Jerrad Peters at The Winnipeg Free Press gave probably 6 inches of column to this subject in Saturdays 400,000 copies. Aside from Saturday issues the Free Press doesn't give very good coverage to soccer so bit of a scoop appearing in one of the countries best read daily papers.

Can you post a link to said article, thanks.

[Cheeta]

Found it.

WpgFreePress

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Can you post a link to said article, thanks.

Jarrad Peters article at BCSW

[L.T.]

Mainstream (sort of..) coverage for CSF... http://torontosun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/02/18/4856088-sun.html

[Eric]

"Canadian Soccer Association • l’Association canadienne de soccer

Media Release • Communiqué

For Immediate Release -

National Training Centre scouting dates

The Canadian Soccer Association will host its next round of scouting dates at its national training centres this week at the centres in British Columbia, Quebec and the Prairies. The scouting visits take place 20-22 February in Montreal, 22-24 February in Burnaby, BC, and 25-27 February in Edmonton, AB. Nick Filippone will visit the centre in British Columbia, Stephen Hart the centre in Quebec, and Sean Fleming the centre in the Prairies.

These dates are the third or fourth visits to three of the five national training centres across Canada. The other two centres are located in Ontario and the Atlantic. The 2007-08 scouting season at these five centres started in September and continues through early May.

The national training centres provide daily training sessions for some of Canada's elite young soccer players. The players are identified at the BMO National Championships (both All-Stars and Club Championships) and/or recommended by licensed coaches from across the country who have a keen understanding of the international game. The scouting visits throughout the year help national-team coaches monitor those selected players. The talent pool consists of potential prospects for future national-team service.

Question, is Mr Filippone a qualified coach capable of identifying future national team players. What level of coaching does he hold and where did he coach before? I know he is an administratoR at the CSA...... but CSA staff coach too? [}]

Just curious!!

[Pawel]

Did someone say external influence on footballing associations?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=509066&cc=5901

quote:

Blatter threatens to bar Spain over interference

MADRID, Feb 18 (Reuters) - Spain will be barred from competing in international competitions if their government continues to pressure the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) to hold an early election, FIFA president Sepp Blatter has said.

'If the Spanish government, through their Sports Council (CSD), continue to interfere in footballing affairs they will have to recognise that their clubs and national team will be excluded from international tournaments,' Blatter was quoted as saying in Spanish media on Monday.

[Eric]

Dick Bate back as Technical Director?

I heard there's a possibility that might happen. But isn't this the gentleman who quit the job for a better offer not long ago and jump out of the ship as soon as the sea got turbulent? what happen with that job in the real football world? When are the directors at the CSA ever going to learn? please we need new blood in this country, enough of the SAME influence in our game, there are other countries around the world with different ideas and different ways of approaching development, coaches with proven track record they can choose from and I'm sure money won't be the main obstacle to get them here, many will jump at such an opportunity. Come on CSA don't waste an other opportunity to make a change for the better!!!

[Martyr]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Question, is Mr Filippone a qualified coach capable of identifying future national team players. What level of coaching does he hold and where did he coach before? I know he is an administratoR at the CSA...... but CSA staff coach too? [}]

Just curious!!

His doesn't appear anywhere on the CSA's Coaching Status list (A or B License)... so presumably he has not acquired any of the higher CSA qualifications. But that doesn't mean he hasn't got European or American qualifications. If he does and he is coaching or assessing players at an elite level I think it is important that he be listed as having attain the require levels under the equivilency section on the Status List. Otherwise, you open yourself to questions of credibility - not a good thing for the CSA to be doing right now.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/coaching/programs/Status_check.pdf

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Dick Bate back as Technical Director?

I heard there's a possibility that might happen. But isn't this the gentleman who quit the job for a better offer not long ago and jump out of the ship as soon as the sea got turbulent? what happen with that job in the real football world? When are the directors at the CSA ever going to learn? please we need new blood in this country, enough of the SAME influence in our game, there are other countries around the world with different ideas and different ways of approaching development, coaches with proven track record they can choose from and I'm sure money won't be the main obstacle to get them here, many will jump at such an opportunity. Come on CSA don't waste an other opportunity to make a change for the better!!!

Dick Bate is actually a very respected soccer professional. It was a shame when he left. he left out of frustration, knowing that it would be near impossible to implement his technical plan so he jumped at the first chance to go back to the UK, even if it was a team poised for relegation.

Money is a huge obstacle for anyone interested in the job. Not only salary but funds needed to implement an integrated player development program.

The rumours floating around is that the new TD will be someone from within the current inner circle of coaches/provincial TDs.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Dick Bate is actually a very respected soccer professional. It was a shame when he left. he left out of frustration, knowing that it would be near impossible to implement his technical plan so he jumped at the first chance to go back to the UK, even if it was a team poised for relegation.

Money is a huge obstacle for anyone interested in the job. Not only salary but funds needed to implement an integrated player development program.

The rumours floating around is that the new TD will be someone from within the current inner circle of coaches/provincial TDs.

I understand that he is actually a very respected soccer professional as you said, but there wasn't enough or not change at all since he was the TD here, as a matter of fact things got worse so his motives wouldn't be because there's a better working system in place!! [?]

I really hope you're wrong about the rumours that the new TD will be someone from within the current inner circle of coaches/provincial TDs, that would be a step backwards.