Voyageurs Cup 2008 and beyond

[Number6]

I think there should be some provision that the Voyageurs get some money to invest in the supporters.

This is a good thing to happen, but we should get some profits from this if we are giving up the cup.

It would benefit the whole competition because it would allow us to get our own marketing going, allow us to invest in displays during games or allow us to put money towards making is easier for voyageurs to travel to CMNT games. Just some ideas, but presumably this would be an eventual coup for the Big Three because TV revenue, seating etc will get them money.

I think we should get a taste to improve the game from our end, the supporters end.

[Gordon]

I think we want to look after our interests if we do this. First, it is not without value in its own right. The V Cup has been in play for what 4 years, and it comes with a de facto supporters attachment truely independent of any of the 3 clubs involved. If these clubs are smart, they will continue to cultivate the fans the way TFC has done very successfully. Obviously Saputo, Kerfoot and MLSE are not so hard up that they need the Grand or so the Trophy cost so I suspect they recognize this value. So, I would support generally the concept, but I'd like the agreement to stipulate:

1) That the Phrase "Voyageurs Cup" remain intact. While corporate sponsorship is they way this business goes these days, I think "Sponsorsname Voyageurs Cup" is just fine. Sponsors change, and the name "Voyageurs Cup" is what will build the tradition and the prestige.

2) I have no problem with any of the "control" proposals or full assignment of ownership of the Cup to the clubs, but would initially assign them for 10 years with an automatic permanent transfer of these rights a the end of the 10 year period so long as competition for the Cup be skipped no more than one year consecutively...i.e. use it or lose it with a 1 year grace for potential labour, World Cup or disater/catastrophy interuption (but if it is skipped twice in a row, then it returns to teh Voyageurs)

3) As I'd like to see this become the national open cup, I'd also seek a clause that states should the CSA develop a Reasonable plan for a National Open Cup and desire to use the V-Cup, the clubs will not unreasonably hold it back. This would apply only during the 10 year transition program. Using the words reasonable and unreasonable for their legal conotations as any efforts made by the clubs now should be protected against an unreasonable proposal by the CSA (i.e. trying to gain control of sponsorship revenue). A bit of leagalese might be required in this to make sure that the interests of the clubs are protected while keeping open the possibilities of a National Open Cup.

4) Written into the contract that as long as the Voyageurs exist, a representative will be in the presentation committee. The only cost to the clubs to be the cost of one ticket to the game where the presentation is to be made.

I have no problem with the Clubs taking over the Voyageurs Cup, promoting it and profiting from it if they can. I simply do not want to see the Cup lost and a 1 or 2 year lark that the clubs later decide isn't working out for them. Obviously we have to give them good faith assurances that, if they run the competition, that they will benefit from that which is why I propose that after the 10 year period, the transfer of all rights is automatic provided they meet the one minimum compliance clause.

I don't think that this is an unreasonable proposal, could even be convinced that the CSA/National Open Cup stuff be dropped, but I think the basic protections of our interests is not onerous on the Clubs.

edit - I don't think that we should hope to benefit from any sponsorship money. All rights should be transfered for $1, consideration of which is herewith given (or however that phrase goes). We are not doing the work, and If I were the club owners, I'd tell us to pound sand if the request was made of me. So far, we bought a trophy and assigned our name to it. Then we tacked a schedule onto what already existed and showed up with said trophy. If the name lives on, that is compensation enough.

[CanadianSwede]

The Voyageurs should definitely not relinquish total control over certain aspects of the cup. Ideally it would be good if there was a representative for the voyageurs who would take part in any important meetings regarding the cup competition. Regarding the commercial aspects of the cup it would be preferred if the cup was only named the Voyageurs Cup instead of having some commercial sponsors name being used as the prefix, such as "Carlsbergs Voyageurs Cup". At the same time sponsorship money is important to make such a competition viable. Double edged sword i guess.

Although i am generally new to the voyageurs I think that this is a great opportunity for the Voyageurs to be represented in the Canadian soccer community. Also, this cup could represent the continuing voyageur legacy.

Cheers

[Kibby]

It would seem sensible to lease the cup, but not give over all ownership of it. Gordon seems pretty smack on.

Lease it out for a ten year long period at renewable low rate, with the clause that should the competition end for a certain period of years it is returned.

The name must remain the Voyageurs Cup but can be prefixed with sponsership retained by the teams ex. BMO Voyageurs Cup, Bell Canada Voyageurs Cup, Pepsi Voyageurs Cup etc.

Some Voyageurs must be present as part of the Presentation committee of the award.

These seem like rather easy conditions, and allows for the survival of the cup.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I think we want to look after our interests if we do this. First, it is not without value in its own right. The V Cup has been in play for what 4 years, and it comes with a de facto supporters attachment truely independent of any of the 3 clubs involved. If these clubs are smart, they will continue to cultivate the fans the way TFC has done very successfully. Obviously Saputo, Kerfoot and MLSE are not so hard up that they need the Grand or so the Trophy cost so I suspect they recognize this value. So, I would support generally the concept, but I'd like the agreement to stipulate:

1) That the Phrase "Voyageurs Cup" remain intact. While corporate sponsorship is they way this business goes these days, I think "Sponsorsname Voyageurs Cup" is just fine. Sponsors change, and the name "Voyageurs Cup" is what will build the tradition and the prestige.

2) I have no problem with any of the "control" proposals or full assignment of ownership of the Cup to the clubs, but would initially assign them for 10 years with an automatic permanent transfer of these rights a the end of the 10 year period so long as competition for the Cup be skipped no more than one year consecutively...i.e. use it or lose it with a 1 year grace for potential labour, World Cup or disater/catastrophy interuption (but if it is skipped twice in a row, then it returns to teh Voyageurs)

3) As I'd like to see this become the national open cup, I'd also seek a clause that states should the CSA develop a Reasonable plan for a National Open Cup and desire to use the V-Cup, the clubs will not unreasonably hold it back. This would apply only during the 10 year transition program. Using the words reasonable and unreasonable for their legal conotations as any efforts made by the clubs now should be protected against an unreasonable proposal by the CSA (i.e. trying to gain control of sponsorship revenue). A bit of leagalese might be required in this to make sure that the interests of the clubs are protected while keeping open the possibilities of a National Open Cup.

4) Written into the contract that as long as the Voyageurs exist, a representative will be in the presentation committee. The only cost to the clubs to be the cost of one ticket to the game where the presentation is to be made.

I have no problem with the Clubs taking over the Voyageurs Cup, promoting it and profiting from it if they can. I simply do not want to see the Cup lost and a 1 or 2 year lark that the clubs later decide isn't working out for them. Obviously we have to give them good faith assurances that, if they run the competition, that they will benefit from that which is why I propose that after the 10 year period, the transfer of all rights is automatic provided they meet the one minimum compliance clause.

I don't think that this is an unreasonable proposal, could even be convinced that the CSA/National Open Cup stuff be dropped, but I think the basic protections of our interests is not onerous on the Clubs.

edit - I don't think that we should hope to benefit from any sponsorship money. All rights should be transfered for $1, consideration of which is herewith given (or however that phrase goes). We are not doing the work, and Ifup with sa I were the club owners, I'd tell us to pound sand if the request was made of me. So far, we bought a trophy and assigned our name to it. Then we tacked a schedule onto what already existed and showed id trophy. If the name lives on, that is compensation enough.

I can live and support this proposal. It protects our interests in the event that the clubs change their minds after a few years and it at the same time it doesn't put any onerous requests on the clubs.

But, I would go even one step further, I dont even feel that its necessary to have a Voyageur member on the presentation group. First of all, do we even have a membership? we are not that organized and that has been more of a plus than a negative for this group. As long as the name is retained in some form on the trophy, I am fine with that. after all, there are many who contributed their money and efforts into this.

I do not object to:

1) a title sponsor attached to the name Voyageurs. Thats just a reality on today sports. Did anyone object to the Mastercard Memorial cup, the Bell canadian Open, Rogers Cup in tennis. We cant live in dream world anymore.

2) NOT Having a say in how it is organized. The clubs know best how to do that. Moreso than any Voyageurs since we are not privy to their bottom lines and business goals and challenges. As long as a competition is held and it crowns a Canadian champion for any given year, I am fine with that. I do not support the notion requiring that any Voyageurs involved in any meetings. Afterall, again, who would that be? Nor do i support the notion of telling the clubs who should be involved in the competition.

3) We dont need any money because we dont really organise anything as Voyageurs. So why should we be requesting $$$ from the clubs? where would that money go anyways and what would we do with? Again, because we are not an orgainzed clubs with a membership, how would this benefit us.

In short, preserving the name "Voyageurs" on the trophy should be the main objective.

[CanadasBest]

I think that this is a good idea. As stated if we don't take part then the Voyageurs Cup essentially dies.

Looking from the clubs perspective I could see why they would want to retain all rights and ownership to the cup. They'll be spending a lot of money and taking all of the risks for profit or loss. As Gordon stated the cup and rights do have value and I could understand why the clubs would want to own the cup and rights.

I hope the clubs also realize why we would want to retain the rights. It's not that we would want to financially benefit in any way or to get involved in the planning, but to ensure that the cup lives on barring any unforeseen complications with this alliance. As fans I think it is prudent that we ensure that the cup is going to good hands and will live on in the event of some demise of this alliance. Providing we have some peace of mind with regards to the future of the cup I support moving forward with this.

[Trident]

Keep the name is a must.

Transferring the history is a must, we cannot let the history of the cup fall behind, or else no one will know how a small group of fans did the job the CSA should have done. Plus Montreal Is the sole winner so that makes me want to keep the history even more.

If they need to add a sponsorname, sure but I'm not a fan of that.

If we sell/give, make sure there's a clause like Dan said. I would prefer low rents, then perhaps the money could go towards the advancement of the V's.

[redhat]

First of all, having a corporate name as part of the trophy is no big deal.

The original CSL championship was called the "MITA CUP".

Secondly if they retain the "Voyageurs Cup" as part of their championship,

it will continue the tradition WE started : excellence in Canadian club soccer.

I have no problem with having professional clubs continuing our tradition,

a tradition that die-hard Canadian footie fans started. I just hope we get

some recognition as Voyageurs from these clubs.

[mlsintoronto]

I think the whole point of this dialogue is to ensure and guarantee the legacy of the roots of the trophy. when people ask where the name comes from it will always point back to the few fans from 2002 who had the vision and the balls and personal investment to get this done. There are brighter days ahead for Canadian football, but we the clubs, and the fans of tomorrow will always be reminded of the foresight of the handful at the turn of the century who got it done.

As for the value of the name I think it only has value (brand equity, if you will - sorry I can't help myself with the marketingspeak) among the few hundred who participate here. I think it has massive potential though. That should be part of the discussion: do you (collectively) want to grow the voyageurs to be all fans of all soccer in Canada? or do you prefer to keep it this relatively intimate group of like minded and knowledgeable people. Because if this moves forward, then I think all of what you all enjoy here changes forever...that could be a good thing or not...your call.

Again - the purpose of this is to discuss the relative merits of handing it over to the clubs. We're going to name this tournament (we think!) something...and whatever the name ends up being will be just as big and valuable as Voyageurs Cup. The question is, what happens to the Voyageurs Cup if that is the case?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

After reading some posts (especially W Fury's, which I thought was good), and getting a sense of the idea that it would be given to the qualifier for the Concacaf Champions League, let me modify my opinion a bit.

First, it is hard to believe that given the costs and the relative quality of the V-Cup, someone would want the cup itself. I mean, is it a good quality cup, average, I really don't know? But if they do think the cup itself is fine then that is a first step. The actual Cup with a plaque on it for the yearly Canadian Cup champ.

Next, about the name. Well we do have these interesting cases of Lords donating Cups for a competition in Canada, so maybe it is not so far-fetched to have us offer the Cup or even cede it for a competition awarding the best club team. Retaining ownership or some rights. So they have the Voyageurs Cup for the competition winner, and as long as the name remained and its history was told that could be alright. I have no personal problem with sponsors being added if that is what is needed to pay for the competition.

I thought they were just doing a tournament, but if it is about qualifying for the Concacaf Champions that gives more stability to the proposal, it is not something that will just disappear. So there is less fear of the botching things. We should in any case be encouraging a competition, as Paul B says, that would eventually include lower tier clubs playing off to get to the final tournament.

Now, if the goal is qualifying for the Conca-Champions, the winner does not really need the Cup. Qualifying is enough. So what is the point? A gesture towards us, to the fans? Well I guess I would have to appreciate that. Or are we really talking about winning the Canadian soccer cup, called the Voyageurs Cup? Then it would make more sense.

And not only that, it is the CSA who organizes the competition and decides on the basis of it who goes to the Conca-Champions League. So do they then require that they own the cup and give it out, or will they accept that we retain the cup and we award it to the CSA sanctioned winner? Under agreement even. I think this is not a bad way of doing things, we award the Cup, the CSA organizes the tournament and declares its winner.

[Daniel]

I don't really care for awarding it either, I can just imagine the clash of egos and politics involved.

Another point that has been kind of touched upon: this proposal is coming from the pro clubs, but isn't the CSA organising this? Would they act as an intermediary or... or what?

[Free kick]

Another thought just came to mind. Its worth reminding some people just who were the groups who contributed towards the creation of the trophy.

1) Voyageurs - supporters of the national team and soccer in canada but with no affiliation to any Canadian pro club in or supporter group.

2) Voyageurs who are also supporters of the Lynx and TFC and affiliated with U-sector

3) Voyageurs who are supporters of the Whitecaps and/or affiliated with the Southsiders

4) Voyageurs who are also supporters of the IMPACT and affiliated with ULTRAS MONTREAL

There were no other supporters groups who contributed towards this trophy! Therefore, should this trophy or championship fall under a more generic name associated with supporters, then I think that it would rub many the wrong way. Especially those who are part of group that contributed given the amount of publicity seeking tendencies on the part of certain other supporters groups who had no part in this.

[SthMelbRed]

quote:Originally posted by mlsintoronto

We - the clubs - don't even know what the format is for the concacaf thing...we know it is coming but have no details yet. This whole discussion may be moot if we don't have the right to stage the competition.

This bit speaks volumes for me. It seems that the clubs are only interested in this competition as a way of rubber stamping their entry in the new CONCACAF Champions' League. If the CSA or CONCACAF doesn't sanction the winner as Canada's representative in the Champions' League, why should it make the discussion moot? What about having a competition purely for the sake of recognising a true club champion for the whole country? I may be reading this entirely wrong, but from that single line, I would guess that the only way any additional clubs could gain entry into the competition in the future would be if the three existing clubs were mandated to expand the competition by the CSA or CONCACAF. Otherwise, it'll merely be a self-serving competition for the closed shop of TFC, the Impact, and the 'Caps to get their hands into the potential cookie jar of Champions' League money.

[rdroze]

As someone who did pony up a few bucks back in the day to purchase the Voyageurs Cup, I'm thrilled that these clubs have approached us.

The sad reality is that it's extremely difficult for the die-hard fans of Canadian soccer to have any real influence on how the sport is managed and perceived in this country, especially considering the general dysfunction of the CSA. The V-Cup was a wonderful example of the fans coming together to make positive change, but these days I have no doubt that if Canada is to someday become a world soccer power, it will be the professional clubs, not the CSA (and certainly not the Voyageurs), pulling most of the weight.

If they want to carry our torch on to bigger and better things, I'm all for it.

[mlsintoronto]

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

This bit speaks volumes for me. It seems that the clubs are only interested in this competition as a way of rubber stamping their entry in the new CONCACAF Champions' League. If the CSA or CONCACAF doesn't sanction the winner as Canada's representative in the Champions' League, why should it make the discussion moot? What about having a competition purely for the sake of recognising a true club champion for the whole country? I may be reading this entirely wrong, but from that single line, I would guess that the only way any additional clubs could gain entry into the competition in the future would be if the three existing clubs were mandated to expand the competition by the CSA or CONCACAF. Otherwise, it'll merely be a self-serving competition for the closed shop of TFC, the Impact, and the 'Caps to get their hands into the potential cookie jar of Champions' League money.

Sorry - to be clear - I meant to suggest that the discussion with the clubs would become moot. To put it another way - I'm not sure the clubs will own the tournament and therefore I'd be out of line suggesting that we have a say in the name of the tournament.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by mlsintoronto

To put it another way - I'm not sure the clubs will own the tournament and therefore I'd be out of line suggesting that we have a say in the name of the tournament.

How about keeping the cup until they all figure out who does what then?

[Number6]

quote:Originally posted by mlsintoronto

I think the whole point of this dialogue is to ensure and guarantee the legacy of the roots of the trophy. when people ask where the name comes from it will always point back to the few fans from 2002 who had the vision and the balls and personal investment to get this done. There are brighter days ahead for Canadian football, but we the clubs, and the fans of tomorrow will always be reminded of the foresight of the handful at the turn of the century who got it done.

As for the value of the name I think it only has value (brand equity, if you will - sorry I can't help myself with the marketingspeak) among the few hundred who participate here. I think it has massive potential though. That should be part of the discussion: do you (collectively) want to grow the voyageurs to be all fans of all soccer in Canada? or do you prefer to keep it this relatively intimate group of like minded and knowledgeable people. Because if this moves forward, then I think all of what you all enjoy here changes forever...that could be a good thing or not...your call.

Again - the purpose of this is to discuss the relative merits of handing it over to the clubs. We're going to name this tournament (we think!) something...and whatever the name ends up being will be just as big and valuable as Voyageurs Cup. The question is, what happens to the Voyageurs Cup if that is the case?

I think these are good debatable points.

The Voyageurs are giving up name and attach their reputation to an event which will be run by three major clubs which would also attach a corporate sponsor to our name, which may not even be Canadian.

We will always exist and if we do not attach the cup to the major pro clubs, we could always get a youth oriented attachment to the cup. Even if TFC et al do not get to use The Voyageurs Cup name, there will be some sort of incarnation where the name will survive.

Lest we forget that the few hundred of the people who drive Soccer support in Canada are present on this board, RPB board etc. We are the people who give the atmosphere that attract attention to the clubs and CMNT which then draws in the revenues for profit.

MLSINTORONTO ask a leading question speaking of value and brand equity. He equate the notion that giving up our rights to the cup will attract positive attention. Growing this from "small (intimate is corporate speak for small) and like minded" to "something... to be all fans of all soccer in Canada?"

I personally think that is the wrong mentality for the Voyageurs to take. Right now I think we do as a whole represent soccer supporters and the fans. We will grow regardless of the Cup. I think that giving this cup to the big three will have nothing to do with our growth at all.

We should be looking at what we get tangibly. What do we attach to the value of the name and how much do we care if they end up abusing it?

We are giving up a bona fide piece of Canadian soccer history. It should one day be in a hall of fame.

What is it worth to us? Are we happy with nothing and in return receiving a return to improve the groups name or "brand equity"?

I would love to volunteer for any negotiating committee struck. We have a historical artifact that we should not be afraid of keeping a hold of. There are other ideas and options aside from giving up the cup with no deal in place to benefit the voyageurs.

The idea is sound, it has potential. Nonetheless, since we would be giving up a piece of history and for society history has immense value therefore I am lead to conclude we should be looking at real compensation aside from a pat on the butt.

Reserved seating for CMNT events, sponsorship funds for traveling, cheaper seating an so forth are potential non bank breaking options. Nothing that is ridiculous, but since we would be giving up full control and I think our brand equity here is a lot more than MLSINTORONTO will concede or perceives. Heck they could put stamp MLSE on my forehead and have their own chant if they could make it realistic for Canadians from place B to go to place A to view WCQ, Gold Cup etc.

Soccer in Canada is still grassroots and as big money gets invested, we should not be willing to just trade our "brand equity" for lima beans. (Sorry Jack got the last of the magic ones).

Why? Big Three are getting something which immediately will give them credibility from soccer supporters in Canada and when the general public reads on, they will equate the historical tradition positively. MLSE et al will be viewed as being in touch with the grassroots and further cultivate brand loyalty and other spin offs from the 'good feeling' people will get.

To conclude, I believe we are in a position of strength. Our best alternative to a non-agreement is not a bad situation. I hope who ever reviews this take a serious look at our traditions, independence etc. Remember, before people see our name, they will see a sponsor.

For example: people who are not knowledgeable about the situation will think of the sponsor first and the layman could be lead to think the sponsor is backed by the Voyageurs. Perhaps the sponsor could be someone like Montesanto which is using poison to beef up milk production and is doing some very very nasty stuff to our food chain.

Tread wisely my friends. Do not trade the cow for beans.

[Oldtimer]

I didn't contribute to the cup in 2002, so I don't have a right to say what happens to it. However, I'm confused by Number6's strong anti-corporate statements. Wasn't the purpose of the cup to promote a competition for the best (Pro) club in Canada? Well, this is what is going to happen! Until now, by my understanding, the cup has been awarded to the best USL side in Canada.

Changing it to an amateur cup will not be in line with the original vision of what the cup was for. However, having it awarded in the pro club competition is exactly what it was for. It's adding the new MLS side to the 2 USL sides.

It's not like this cup has a 100 year history, which must be guarded at all costs. "We are giving up a bona fide piece of Canadian soccer history. It should one day be in a hall of fame." It's only 6 years old, and was created specifically to kick-start what is now being proposed!!

Now maybe the original donors want it to become something new, but it will then be something on a minor-league level, for which their already exists a plethora of cups and competitions, whether it's the CSL's Canada Open Cup, or the various amateur cups that are already being awarded. I'm not sure it will really have purpose or meaning in that case, and will certainly not end up in a hall of fame, except as a historical oddity.

The Pro clubs are making this offer to tap into what the supporters have created, much like MLS' Supporters Shield. It's not like they can't afford a nice trophy, I think they are offering this in order not to supplant and ignore what has already been done. Well, as I said, it's not my decision, but here's my 2 cents.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Number6

After my post above, I was curious to see what the reaction would be and from whom.

QUESTION: Did anyone present on the RPB board contribute $$$ towards the Voyageurs Cup?

[Pawel]

I think this is the greatest show of respect to the dedication and work The Voyageurs put into supporting soccer in Canada for a group of professional soccer clubs to come and at least open the dialogue to continue the name 'Voyageurs Cup'.

I think this is something The Voyageurs should allow. I think the only stipulation you should place is that if the competition to select the best team in Canada is not held for a consecutive period of 3 years then the trophy or if the clubs want to buy their own trophy the name is returned to the Voyageurs.

Last question, do the Voyageurs exist as a legal entity? Wasn't this discussed before? Who actually owns the name Voyageurs Cup if anyone?

[Cashcleaner]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Another thought just came to mind. Its worth reminding some people just who were the groups who contributed towards the creation of the trophy.

1) Voyageurs - supporters of the national team and soccer in canada but with no affiliation to any Canadian pro club in or supporter group.

2) Voyageurs who are also supporters of the Lynx and TFC and affiliated with U-sector

3) Voyageurs who are supporters of the Whitecaps and/or affiliated with the Southsiders

4) Voyageurs who are also supporters of the IMPACT and affiliated with ULTRAS MONTREAL

There were no other supporters groups who contributed towards this trophy! Therefore, should this trophy or championship fall under a more generic name associated with supporters, then I think that it would rub many the wrong way. Especially those who are part of group that contributed given the amount of publicity seeking tendencies on the part of certain other supporters groups who had no part in this.

I'm not affiliated with any of those groups, though I do follow the national teams as well as Toronto FC as a Red Patch Boy. That said, I certainly don't have a problem with the Voyageurs being associated with the trophy and even I would object to a name change as a way to incorporate newer groups or individuals.

I don't think there is any supporter group out there who would have an issue with the Voyageurs Cup simply because it predates their existence. I mean, that would be silly after all.

[crashvegas]

Being the observer that I am, I must say that I am tremendously pleased with the honest, passionate opinions being presented here about the possible evolution of the Voyageurs Cup. If, like I think most everyone here dreams, the Voyageurs Cup becomes the trophy representative of the Canadian Club Champion, then the Voyageurs Cup will become more than the die-hard ultra-fans' marker of Canadian Soccer Club supremacy. It will become the nation's marker of the Canadian Champion: Canadian non-soccer fans will eventually know what the title Voyageurs Cup means. So, again I am pleased and excited about the possibilities discussed here regarding the cup because it stands to be a pivotal point for the progression of soccer in Canada. A point which may help to further pervade the Canadian sporting consciousness and gain more support for the beautiful game.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

I was mostly a lurker when the trophy was first conceived and purchased. However, from what I remember, the motivations for creating it were pure--we were sick of waiting for the CSA or the clubs to get their heads out of their asses to create a cup so we went out and did it ourselves.

I think it's a great example of how fans can contribute to the betterment of a sport.

Now, here we are X years later. The clubs have stepped it up and are ready to move forward--with a CONCACAF Champions League spot to play for, no less. Refreshingly, representatives from those clubs understand the role the Vs played in keeping this on the agenda and in supporting the domestic game. They've offered to keep the name and tradition of the little trophy that was built by the fans. I think that's great...it's a bigger legacy than anyone on these boards dared to dream back in the day.

If we don't agree, the cup will end up being sold at a Value Village somewhere after the annual Vs kick-around tournament fizzled out in 2016. If we do agree, the Vs name grows in stature and prominence.

This is a great opportunity. Take it.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Its worth reminding some people just who were the groups who contributed towards the creation of the trophy.

1) Voyageurs

And that is all. There was no talk of local supporters groups or who was from where. We were all Voyageurs. I was too broke at that time to send any money but I saw only one single group, The Voyageurs, contributing time and money.

As for who owns the cup. Morally the Voyageurs own the cup, legally it is probably the property of whoever physically has it in their possession unless they signed some sort of contract with another person or group. And not to say "I told you so", well, OK maybe I'm saying exactly that, but this very issue of who owns the cup was brought up years ago when discussing registering the Voyageurs as a legal entity.

[morbital]

i think we should just keep the voyageurs cup as is, a derby between mon and van (and hopefully down the road a mls derby with tfc included) i dont see the need to lose a trophy... why have one when you can have 2...