Massive Attack Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Don't think you can blame the V's here or the 3 clubs for the fact that this never came to fruition. We have to look straight to that greedy bastard Jack Warner. I think the best solution for the time being would be to present the winner with the V's Cup at a separate ceremony after the competition ends. I hope we can make something like that work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I think the best solution for the time being would be to present the winner with the V's Cup at a separate ceremony after the competition ends. I hope we can make something like that work out. I agree, but I don't think we need a seperate ceremony if we know who the winner is. I can't see the club refusing the V-Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 The Globe and Mail story below suggests that the new competition may be called the "Canada Cup". This name has cropped up a couple of times, but I haven't seen it in any official release so I don't know if it's official yet. Even if they decide to go with Canada Cup and make a new trophy, I like the idea of awarding the Voyageurs Cup based on the results of this tournament. But perhaps we could use a different tie-breaking mechanism for the Voyageurs Cup to create a theoretical possibility of the Canada Cup and Voyageurs Cup going to different clubs. For example, the CSA release says that the official competition will use the standard tie-breaking formula (goal differential, etc...) What if the Voyageurs Cup tie-breaker was the total number of minutes played by players eligible to play internationally for Canada? So if Vancouver and Montreal were to finish tied at the top of the table on points, and Vancouver had a better goal differential but Montreal used more Canadians, Vancouver would win the "Canada Cup" (or whatever it's called) and go to the CONCACAF Champions League but Montreal would win the Voyageurs Cup. I think this would be a nice way to keep the Voyageurs Cup at least a bit distinct and pay homage to the Voyageurs' goal of supporting the Canadian national teams. We could tweak the Voyageurs Cup format in the future, as the situation evolves, but always try to keep a slightly distinct identity. Perhaps, if Vancouver and Montreal were to join MLS, the Voyageurs Cup could then be awarded based on results in MLS league play (much like the original USL format) or perhaps the combined total of the MLS and "Canada Cup" matches. Just some ideas I wanted to float for consideration... *** http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080327.TORFC27/TPStory/Sports Canadian teams set to do battle FC, Whitecaps, Impact partner in tourney LARRY MILLSON March 27, 2008 TORONTO -- An idea that was first discussed as a friendly tournament has expanded into something bigger - and with more meaning - that will open May 27 and conclude July 22. (snip) The winner of the Canada Cup will go on to the preliminary round of the CONCACAF Champions League, which will involve 16 of the 24 teams in the competition. (snip) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Don't think you can blame the V's here or the 3 clubs for the fact that this never came to fruition. We have to look straight to that greedy bastard Jack Warner. I think the best solution for the time being would be to present the winner with the V's Cup at a separate ceremony after the competition ends. I hope we can make something like that work out. Again, we haven't heard anything except a vague line from (I think) TFC's Paul Beirne about this. It still seems completely backwards that CONCACAF would have ANY right on this competition (they don't have anything to do with MLS choosing its representatives, nor with the Mexican fed's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 It will be kind of odd when you think of the possibilities down the road. Right now, when you think of the Concacaf Cup, Canada has been pegged at the back of queue by being allowed only one representative. Along side the representation allotted to the tiny island nations in Concacaf with little to no soccer infrastructures. Hence its not inconceivable that our representative will fare relatively well considering its team salary budgets and so forth in relation to those of clubs from nations like Belize, Haiti, Jamaica, El Salvador etc. So what happens to the the Canada Cup if our allotments of spots increases to, say, two or three? Would the Canada cup become redundant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick It will be kind of odd when you think of the possibilities down the road. Right now, when you think of the Concacaf Cup, Canada has been pegged at the back of queue by being allowed only one representative. Along side the representation allotted to the tiny island nations in Concacaf with little to no soccer infrastructures. Hence its not inconceivable that our representative will fare relatively well considering its team salary budgets and so forth in relation to those of clubs from nations like Belize, Haiti, Jamaica, El Salvador etc. So what happens to the the Canada Cup if our allotments of spots increases to, say, two or three? Would the Canada cup become redundant? Just because the competition was created out of necessity doesn't mean it would be redundant. Perhaps one day it could become a more prestigious tournament that becomes important to the clubs and players all by itself, like cup competitions in every footballing nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick It will be kind of odd when you think of the possibilities down the road. Right now, when you think of the Concacaf Cup, Canada has been pegged at the back of queue by being allowed only one representative. Along side the representation allotted to the tiny island nations in Concacaf with little to no soccer infrastructures. Hence its not inconceivable that our representative will fare relatively well considering its team salary budgets and so forth in relation to those of clubs from nations like Belize, Haiti, Jamaica, El Salvador etc. So what happens to the the Canada Cup if our allotments of spots increases to, say, two or three? Would the Canada cup become redundant? I doubt we will ever see 2 or 3 spots until we have a base of more than three professional teams competing. If we get a real league and an real Open Cup, then I can see the numbers expanding to 2. 3 or more is a pipe dream. Since scenario# 2 is no longer possible, the best we can hope for a spot at the top of "the queue" IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I doubt we will ever see 2 or 3 spots until we have a base of more than three professional teams competing. If we get a real league and an real Open Cup, then I can see the numbers expanding to 2. 3 or more is a pipe dream. Since scenario# 2 is no longer possible, the best we can hope for a spot at the top of "the queue" IMO. I don't know. It depends whether there is a properly designed set of criteria to rate leagues and countries, like in UEFA. If there is, you can't deny a nation whose only club does very well a second spot. Or jump past eliminatory rounds, as that is something else we are waiting on, how the competition is supposed to go and if any team gets a bye into later rounds. If you can't give a country more spots or byes on the basis of performance, you should just come out and admit that the allocations are pure BS and have no basis in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashcleaner Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I still fail to see why a simple compromise can't be made. All you have to do is donate the trophy to the clubs involved and attach some very basic conditions. I really don't understand why it would have to become anymore complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Cashcleaner I still fail to see why a simple compromise can't be made. All you have to do is donate the trophy to the clubs involved and attach some very basic conditions. I really don't understand why it would have to become anymore complicated than that. Fear. They are afraid that we will come later for money I suppose. Plus, they don't want to meet any conditions because then they wouldn't be in charge. They want complete control(at least how I see it). That said, as far as expanding the cup, I'm surprised no one else has noticed the league style format?! If we get more Champions League spots, maybe we'll get more teams competing, and if there is a lot of interest, is it not possible that they will keep the format, and possible just establish a league? Imagine if the Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver games get great attendance and TV ratings(Will there be TV?), I can't imagine these clubs not wanting to continue those games simply based on a fourth team making a bracket system easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I echo RJB's sentiments about why a deal hasn't already been made between the V's and the clubs. They want complete control (last we heard), and the V's quite simply won't give away their cup with no conditions. As for formats and spots, the CCL and Canadian championship will be revised after 2 years, when CONCACAF might re-distribute spots (I doubt there'd be much "process", as Jeffrey S. asks, as this *is* Concacaf...). If the Canadian championship is rather even and the Canadian representative does well during 2 years of CCL, then we might see 2 representatives (of an expanded competition) get access to the CCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. There does exist some sort of criteria. Though I am unaware of the details. I did see the current allocations posted here or elsewhere a while back. There are quite a few nations that have been given 2-3 slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I doubt we will ever see 2 or 3 spots until we have a base of more than three professional teams competing. If we get a real league and an real Open Cup, then I can see the numbers expanding to 2. 3 or more is a pipe dream. Since scenario# 2 is no longer possible, the best we can hope for a spot at the top of "the queue" IMO. I do concur that scenario 2 isn't possible. But I do not think that its for the reasons that you are hinting at. If we harken back to reasons provided by the USL clubs to Gerry Gentile's group for abstaning from that initiative, you might find that the same reasons might be offerred by the current three pro clubs to exclude any additional clubs to the cup competetion. But more importantly, I caught a glimpse of one of the earlier round Concacaf cup matches on the Fox Sportsworld Canada about three weeks ago. The match pitted a Jamaican side versus DC United. Around the same day that it was played, there were 20-40 cm's of snow that fell in Ontario and Quebec. Aside from BC, factors like climate have to play a role in this and I somehow suspect that there wont be a willingness from other sides in Concacaf to bend over backwards with scheduling to accomodate Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 We have 3 covered stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themodelcitizen Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I guess its too much to hope for a coefficient system along the lines of UEFA to determine club entries from respective national associations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I have had a number of discussions with the CSA and our respective clubs concerning the Voyageurs Cup/Champions League Qualifying. There are a number of options on the table and I do not get an overly positive vibe from the CSA. In fact, before contacting them, I was told that the Voyageurs Cup was not even an option. I suggest anyone who wishes to have the Voyageurs Cup continue, should contact the CSA and let them know that as a supporter of Canadian soccer, both on the professional and international front, you want the winner of the Champions League Qualifying to be awarded the Voyageurs Cup. E-mail Tanya Colburne from the CSA and ask her to pass on your concerns to General Secretary, Peter Montopoli. tcolburne@soccercan.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury I have had a number of discussions with the CSA and our respective clubs concerning the Voyageurs Cup/Champions League Qualifying. There are a number of options on the table and I do not get an overly positive vibe from the CSA. In fact, before contacting them, I was told that the Voyageurs Cup was not even an option. I suggest anyone who wishes to have the Voyageurs Cup continue, should contact the CSA and let them know that as a supporter of Canadian soccer, both on the professional and international front, you want the winner of the Champions League Qualifying to be awarded the Voyageurs Cup. E-mail Tanya Colburne from the CSA and ask her to pass on your concerns to General Secretary, Peter Montopoli. tcolburne@soccercan.ca I don't think it should work that way. I think it should go like this: we recognize the competition as the one that is the top for head to head competition between Canadian pro clubs, and we award the Voyageurs Cup to the winner. Regardless of what they might award the winner from the CSA or themselves or a sponsor. This is not unusual, there are multiple best player and coach awards in every league all over the world, from newspapers and leagues and FAs and fan votes, and one does not rule out the other. Meaning whatever they do at the CSA or between the top Canadian clubs, we do our thing. We award the Cup to the winner. Just as we've been doing for a few years now anyways. Do you honestly think that the CSA has anything to say about that, about what a private fan group does with their Cup? This is why I am not worried about all the rest, we weren't before and no reason to be worried now. Just do what is most natural and don't think twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I don't think it should work that way. I think it should go like this: we recognize the competition as the one that is the top for head to head competition between Canadian pro clubs, and we award the Voyageurs Cup to the winner. Regardless of what they might award the winner from the CSA or themselves or a sponsor. This is not unusual, there are multiple best player and coach awards in every league all over the world, from newspapers and leagues and FAs and fan votes, and one does not rule out the other. Meaning whatever they do at the CSA or between the top Canadian clubs, we do our thing. We award the Cup to the winner. Just as we've been doing for a few years now anyways. Do you honestly think that the CSA has anything to say about that, about what a private fan group does with their Cup? This is why I am not worried about all the rest, we weren't before and no reason to be worried now. Just do what is most natural and don't think twice. I think I agree with Jeffrey. I was kind of honoured and flattered when TFC approached us and expressed some interest. But I don't think we have to persuade anybody. If they want to carry on our tradition, great. If they don't, we'll just do it ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Let's try and keep discussion centralized here: http://thevoyageurs.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Let's try and keep discussion centralized here: http://thevoyageurs.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15016 Yes, saw that, will repost. JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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