South Africa vs Canada November 20 (confirmed)

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

I like having Hutchinson in front of the defenders because he can run at people on the counter and also deliver a good ball. He is also quick and strong defensively. I think having that presence helps "protect" our centrebacks (which is our weakest link probably, certainly our general lack of pace there can be worrying) by not letting people run at them or giving someone time on the ball for a quality through ball.

I didn't see the Iceland game but based on what I recall from the CR match we could (and should) have been up by two before the Ticos broke the scoreless deadlock, Hutchinson late in the first half and Gerba blasting at the keeper when through on the giveaway not too long after the start of the second. Therefore, I'm not ready to state goalscoring as big concern for me as yet. It is interesting to note that Hutchinson has only played a quarter of our last 180 minutes of soccer, and I believe his role is very important to the offensive side of our game.

That said, as much as I appreciate his versatility and have no doubt he could do a good job in the holding role, I truly believe that he would be better for the MNT in supporting the target man striker, pushed forward in an offensive role, with De Guzman the box to box midfielder. I don't think it would be prudent to dispose with a defensive holding mid in front of what stills remains an unconvincing central defence, and I think Bernier has won the job, for the present.

As much as I'd like to experiment with a pure 4-4-2, I'd probably start off with the 4-5-1, with Hutch given more license to push up in support of Occean. I wonder how many subs Mitchell will use?

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by George

This Tam situation blows my mind! Which bureaucracy are we waiting for Germany's or FIFA's?

How long is it going to take to get this all sorted out?

I salivate each time I watch AEK play. He breaks things up well, great passer and he has some fire to him. Last week he almost scrapped with a PAO player.

He is an automatic starter in my books...

We haven't got ANY details on the process except "waiting on some international clearances" or something to that effect, dissapointingly vague.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by SCF08

If you really think I'm biased [] there's only one way to find out. I'd suggest that you or I log on on a Fan Site of Club Brugge and ask their opinion about their League and their thoughts on the comparison I made.

On what do you base your suspicions regarding the comparisment in strength of the Dutch League vs the Belgian being fairly even..?

The hope of Belgian football plays in foreign countries and most in Holland (Dembele , Vertonghen , Vermaelen , Martens , De Roover). Kevin Mirallas plays in France and Lombaerts plays in Russia. The first thing a young belgian player wants is to move to Holland and if thats not possible another country. There is very little young and upcoming talent in their league because the league is not very good and attractive. I can only name 3 candidates in Defour and Fellaini who both play at Standard Luik (Liege) and Jonathan Leagear at Anderlecht.

Their national team has been a disaster (It will be great in 2/3 years) and only Anderlecht have been a decent side in recent years (although they couldnt get a win in CL). Anderlecht proposed to cut 8 teams from the league just to make it more competitive. They wanted a league of 10 teams instead of 18.

Club Brugge have been very smart in the past 1,5 years because they bought the best players at smaller clubs (Sterchele , Daerden , Geraerts) in the league instead of buying foreign , and Club has also added some respected old heads who are ending their career there (Vermant , Valgaeren , Sonck)

They are finally a good team again but not top. I think that if you put the Club Brugge team in the Dutch league they would definately be below the top 4 here (PSV , Feyenoord , ajax and AZ) and they would battle with teams like (Heerenveen , FC Twente , Roda JC and FC Groningen).

I'd put Anderlecht in the same bracket. There's not much difference between Anderlecht and Brugge anymore.

You thinking that Club Brugge is a far stronger club than Roda JC is either being very generous to Club or you lacking knowledge about the strength of Roda. They have a very consistent team with a couple of oustanding creative players in Lamah and Hadouir.

What I base my opinion on is having watched both leagues. Used to live on the Dutch, Belgium border in Germany near Kerkrade and Liege. Both leagues are what I would call tier 2 Euro leagues with a couple of traditional top teams that compete for the title every year, the occassional other team that has a good run for a couple of years (like AZ) and a lot of poorer quality teams. Yes Holland has 3 top teams and Belgium 2 and I would give the Dutch 3 an edge over the Belgian 2. However, when I watch games of smaller teams the level seems very similar to each other and to the 2nd Bundesliga. Again I do think the Dutch league is a bit stronger but certainly not anything close to what I would refer to as "much much stronger." When I hear, "much much stronger" than Belgium I think of the 1st Bundesliga or France's Ligue 1 not the Eredivision.

[Martyr]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

As much as I'd like to experiment with a pure 4-4-2, I'd probably start off with the 4-5-1, with Hutch given more license to push up in support of Occean. I wonder how many subs Mitchell will use?

I got the 4-4-1-1 formation against Iceland from the CSA match report. I just think Mitchell is going to adopt a cautious approach against a side of which he'll have virtually no previous knowledge and at a stadium that all of his players will be unfamiliar with. I think this was why he started this way against Iceland.

I think once he's sorted out the opposition he can then change appropriately to attack their weaker areas. In our case I think the 4-5-1 is our more offensive and creative formation. Best to use it to change the match rather than give the South Africans the opportunity to get used to it from the beginning.

We do seem to have the players to offer different approaches in a 4-5-1 as well. As someone else stated we could just keep Bernier back and push four midfielders forward with one attacker. And others have mentioned the formation used against CR (basically the Christmas Tree formation). But I still think it would be best to hold something back at the beginning - probably Hutchinson - and then introduce him when it's time to up the pace.

[SCF08]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

What I base my opinion on is having watched both leagues. Used to live on the Dutch, Belgium border in Germany near Kerkrade and Liege. Both leagues are what I would call tier 2 Euro leagues with a couple of traditional top teams that compete for the title every year, the occassional other team that has a good run for a couple of years (like AZ) and a lot of poorer quality teams. Yes Holland has 3 top teams and Belgium 2 and I would give the Dutch 3 an edge over the Belgian 2. However, when I watch games of smaller teams the level seems very similar to each other and to the 2nd Bundesliga. Again I do think the Dutch league is a bit stronger but certainly not anything close to what I would refer to as "much much stronger." When I hear, "much much stronger" than Belgium I think of the 1st Bundesliga or France's Ligue 1 not the Eredivision.

What is traditional..? Does that count for anything in football these days..?

I base my opinion on the quality of football / quality of players / performances of teams in Europe / quality of clubs the young players go to and finally the quality of young players coming through the youth ranks.

With these criteria the Dutch league isnt much much stronger but much much much much stronger.

The Belgian league has getting poorer and poorer for years (or maybe stood still) like their MNT and our Dutch league has improved incredibly much. The things you've said could be from 5/7 years ago , then you would be spot on saying that the Dutch League is slightly stronger. But our top 4 nowadays would easily beat a team like Club Brugge..

That's why I put them and Anderlecht in the 5-8 bracket in Holland.

And I also think that the top 4 of the Eredivisie is stronger than the top 4 of Ligue 1. Offcourse our lower ranked teams are much poorer than lower Ligue 1 teams. If I would pick a league of both nations then I'd pick 7 Eredivisie teams and 11 French.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Martyr

I got the 4-4-1-1 formation against Iceland from the CSA match report. I just think Mitchell is going to adopt a cautious approach against a side of which he'll have virtually no previous knowledge and at a stadium that all of his players will be unfamiliar with. I think this was why he started this way against Iceland.

I think once he's sorted out the opposition he can then change appropriately to attack their weaker areas. In our case I think the 4-5-1 is our more offensive and creative formation. Best to use it to change the match rather than give the South Africans the opportunity to get used to it from the beginning.

We do seem to have the players to offer different approaches in a 4-5-1 as well. As someone else stated we could just keep Bernier back and push four midfielders forward with one attacker. And others have mentioned the formation used against CR (basically the Christmas Tree formation). But I still think it would be best to hold something back at the beginning - probably Hutchinson - and then introduce him when it's time to up the pace.

I can't disagree with your opinion for this particular friendly, being an unfamiliar opponent in an unknown stadium. It's hard to dictate play at the start of the match when you're on the road, so perhaps being more compact in midfield is the better option. However, if you are going to hold Hutchinson back at the beginning, where do you slot him in with the 4-4-1-1 formation? After all, he wasn't in the squad for the Iceland match.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by SCF08

What is traditional..? Does that count for anything in football these days..?

I base my opinion on the quality of football / quality of players / performances of teams in Europe / quality of clubs the young players go to and finally the quality of young players coming through the youth ranks.

With these criteria the Dutch league isnt much much stronger but much much much much stronger.

The Belgian league has getting poorer and poorer for years (or maybe stood still) like their MNT and our Dutch league has improved incredibly much. The things you've said could be from 5/7 years ago , then you would be spot on saying that the Dutch League is slightly stronger. But our top 4 nowadays would easily beat a team like Club Brugge..

That's why I put them and Anderlecht in the 5-8 bracket in Holland.

And I also think that the top 4 of the Eredivisie is stronger than the top 4 of Ligue 1. Offcourse our lower ranked teams are much poorer than lower Ligue 1 teams. If I would pick a league of both nations then I'd pick 7 Eredivisie teams and 11 French.

By traditional I mean teams that consistently perform well over time. There are many examples of individual teams having a few good years before returning to their usual playing level. Before one can say Holland has 4 top teams one needs to see AZ doing well in league and international play for a significant time period not just 2 or 3 years. They have already returned to mid-table in Holland. As to the claim that the top Dutch sides are superior to the top French sides that doesn't hold up at all. There is a direct statistical comparison in the UEFA league rankings. These rankings only compare the top teams of each league and these top French teams consistently outperform the top Dutch teams every year. As you yourself admit the French mid and lower table teams are much superior to their Dutch equivalents. Now I think the Dutch do a very good job in developing talent but that doesn't mean it has a top league itself, only very effective at developing talent for top leagues. Nor is your European Cup performances this year very convincing of your arguments with 4 of your 6 teams already eliminated. Since this is not the topic of the thread this is the last I will write on this subject unless you want to start a new thread in the World Soccer section.

[SCF08]

.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

By traditional I mean teams that consistently perform well over time. There are many examples of individual teams having a few good years before returning to their usual playing level. Before one can say Holland has 4 top teams one needs to see AZ doing well in league and international play for a significant time period not just 2 or 3 years. They have already returned to mid-table in Holland. As to the claim that the top Dutch sides are superior to the top French sides that doesn't hold up at all. There is a direct statistical comparison in the UEFA league rankings. These rankings only compare the top teams of each league and these top French teams consistently outperform the top Dutch teams every year. As you yourself admit the French mid and lower table teams are much superior to their Dutch equivalents. Now I think the Dutch do a very good job in developing talent but that doesn't mean it has a top league itself, only very effective at developing talent for top leagues. Nor is your European Cup performances this year very convincing of your arguments with 4 of your 6 teams already eliminated. Since this is not the topic of the thread this is the last I will write on this subject unless you want to start a new thread in the World Soccer section.

If you want to keep talking about tradition/statistical the Dutch would be far superior to the French.

Champions League wins : Holland 6 vs France 1

Uefa Cup wins : Holland 4 vs France 0

World Club Championship : Holland 3 vs France 0

There goes your argument doesnt it. I think it doesnt mean anything but let's forget it. This is indeed not the right place to discuss.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Soju

I hope Hastings gets some minutes so we can see if he's the real deal at CB or if Gold Cup was a flash in the pan. I think he can hold his own there, surprise of the tournament as we've discussed here before.

It's too late for us to call Hastings a flash in the pan, I think. He is well on in age (for one thing), and has been a reliable contributer to the national team on a number of ocassions. What he is not is great. The player pool we are building should leave guys of Hastings' calibre out permanently down the road, if not before WCQ next year. If someone is going to be called in to be the 18th man only to sit and train and maybe be an emergency fill in, I would most definitely rather it was Edgar than Hastings. If we get so thin that Hastings is a realistic starter, then perhaps there is an argument for keeping him in, at least in some people's minds.

Speaking of minds, it blows mine how Hastings is considered a obvious choice for an 18-man squad by many but JDV is considered finished by most. And this with Hastings playing a position that we have infinitely more depth at than DeVos. Go figure.

[nolando]

Many will remember that I was one of his biggest supporters during the last cycle, but I truly think that Josh Simpson is a bubble player at this moment. If he doesn't come up with something big to impress Mitchell at this camp (or in the following few), then I think he will be left behind and may be one of the first casualties of the new regime.

I also think the honeymoon stage offered Mitchell will be a preciously short one, regarding players' opinions of him and happiness about callups and playing time. This may be one of the last few times that we see all of these players coming in together and happy, and some will be playing their last games for Canada (Hastings? Radz? Simpson? Serioux?),at least for some long time, as the rosters get smaller and the playing time gets more limited. Let's hope Mitchell keeps even the uncalled and unplayed happy for, as we all can remember, Canada's roster woes usually mean that we absoutely must have a long list of players who are willing and able to fly across the world to contribute to the campaign.

[jpg75]

WCQ is a long grind and injuries come into play. We need a pool of players about 30 deep with little drop off to compete. If Hastings, Radz, Simpson or anyone else is able to contribute at the moments when they are needed then there is no reason to exclude them for aesthetic reasons because they may or may not seem like the prototypical players we're looking for. The US has been successful because they keep so called fringe players involved in the system and they contribute when they're needed in a pinch. Players like Ben Olsen, Pat Noonan, Steve Ralston, Frankie Hejduk etc. even a player like Preki who was kept in the loop until he was almost 40 because he provided a spark off the bench. There will always be roles that need filling and all our options need to be kept open.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

WCQ is a long grind and injuries come into play. We need a pool of players about 30 deep with little drop off to compete. If Hastings, Radz, Simpson or anyone else is able to contribute at the moments when they are needed then there is no reason to exclude them for aesthetic reasons because they may or may not seem like the prototypical players we're looking for. The US has been successful because they keep so called fringe players involved in the system and they contribute when they're needed in a pinch. Players like Ben Olsen, Pat Noonan, Steve Ralston, Frankie Hejduk etc. even a player like Preki who was kept in the loop until he was almost 40 because he provided a spark off the bench. There will always be roles that need filling and all our options need to be kept open.

But my point is, will a guy like Radz be happy just being in a 30 man player pool and called only for, let's say, a friendly in Barbados that some of our top players opt out of? I agree that Canada wants to keep the pool big, for obvious reasons, but my wonder is if Mitchell can keep that big of a pool happy even if they have only a remote chance of playing a meaningful game.

[Martyr]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

I can't disagree with your opinion for this particular friendly, being an unfamiliar opponent in an unknown stadium. It's hard to dictate play at the start of the match when you're on the road, so perhaps being more compact in midfield is the better option. However, if you are going to hold Hutchinson back at the beginning, where do you slot him in with the 4-4-1-1 formation? After all, he wasn't in the squad for the Iceland match.

I meant that when he adds Hutchinson Mitchell could go to the more creative (the way Canada plays it) 4-5-1... probably withdrawing Hume. The change in approach to our attack might catch the South Africans out.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Martyr

I meant that when he adds Hutchinson Mitchell could go to the more creative (the way Canada plays it) 4-5-1... probably withdrawing Hume. The change in approach to our attack might catch the South Africans out.

Now I understand, thanks.

Regarding the previous comments about Hastings, I did find it interesting that he, Klukowski, and De Jong were all selected for this match considering that all play left back at club level, so I'm guessing that Hastings is in the centre back selection for this game.

As previously stated, the WCQ is a pretty long affair and we're going to need a substantial player pool upon which to draw. Honestly, how many out there saw Hastings making a comeback? And how did he get his opportunity? Injuries and no depth thrust him into that unfamiliar position, and a great run of form by the whole team allowed him to improve with each match, culminating for him in a strong semi final performance.

Keeping everyone happy is a big issue with any national team: for a regional example, there was an American left back (can't remember his name, Euro based, not Spector) who implied in interviews that he should be starting ahead of Bornstein. As to maintaining squad happiness, the only thing I can think of that serves as a tonic is winning.

nolando, the players who are on the bubble for me are those individuals who have crossed over the threshold of thirty. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule but if you are over 30 and start picking up a variety of nagging injuries, things start to slide, especially if you're player who has relied on physical abilities more than technical skills during your career.

[mausi]

I hope there is here somone who can tell me

if we here in europe can watch the game,on tuesday

against the south afrian team,here in holland.??

mausidejong@hotmail.com

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by mausi

I hope there is here somone who can tell me

if we here in europe can watch the game,on tuesday

against the south afrian team,here in holland.??

mausidejong@hotmail.com

I'm not sure were you can watch it live in Holland, but I know you will be able to download it after the fact and watch it on your computer (or DVD player that is DivX compatible).

By the way, are you related to Marcel? Its always nice to have the players or people close to them on the site.

[mausi]

Yes iam related to Marcel iam his dad,

This time its a little to faraway for us to go with him.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by mausi

Yes iam related to Marcel iam his dad,

This time its a little to faraway for us to go with him.

You'll get another opportunity to visit SA in 2010!

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by mausi

Yes iam related to Marcel iam his dad,

This time its a little to faraway for us to go with him.

Welcome Mr. de Jong! You may be able to watch the game on the internet through a Peer-to-Peer program. If it's available it will be listed on this site:

http://www.myp2p.eu/competition.php?competitionid=∂=sports&discipline=football

You may need to download one of the various P2P software apps such as either SopCast, TVAnts or TVU. A quick google search of any of these names should bring up their homepage which have links to download the software. Keep your fingers crossed!

p.s. any word from Marcel whether he will be in the starting 11?

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

But my point is, will a guy like Radz be happy just being in a 30 man player pool and called only for, let's say, a friendly in Barbados that some of our top players opt out of? I agree that Canada wants to keep the pool big, for obvious reasons, but my wonder is if Mitchell can keep that big of a pool happy even if they have only a remote chance of playing a meaningful game.

Gotcha. I don't think Radz would be too happy not playing, but at this point i think it's moot since he can still play and contribute. From my comparison, i think Radz and Preki are similar in that maybe he'll be the sparkplug guy off the bench when he can't start anymore.

For the others, (3rd or 4th stringers) Hastings, Pozniak, Jazic, maybe Serioux and Onstad, Stama even in there too.. and there are a dozen of these guys, it'll pay to have them to call up in a pinch just in case **** happens.

[loyola]

Guys, I've edited the title of the thread just to be sure everyones knows the game has been moved to November 20, 12h30 PM.

[SCF08]

quote:Originally posted by mausi

Yes iam related to Marcel iam his dad,

This time its a little to faraway for us to go with him.

He mausi ,

Ben je echt de vader van Marcel...?

Als je hulp nodig heb met de wedstrijd te bekijken via internet (als hij wordt uitgezonden) dan moet je maar even roepen of emailen. Ik kan je daar wel mee helpen. Je kan sowiezo de volle wedstrijd hier bekijken nadat hij gespeeld is want iemand neemt hem op van de Canadese TV.

Sorry Canucks for these random and possibly unkown words..

[mausi]

Thank you for all the advice hope we see a good came

[loyola]

USA leading SA 1-0 with half an hour to go. Cherundolo with the goal.

[jpg75]

Being streamed here on TVU

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=2019∂=sports

Still 1-0 at min. 72

Zuma through ball to Benny MCarthy into the box, Benny falls down and calls for penalty...none given.