Stama was in nets vs Jamaica We need a new coach!

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by maccaliam

i agree there that his attitude and commitment was likely not his initial reason for being moved down from starter (I think yallop wanted and experienced keeper who he knew well).

I think Yallop wanted to play his buddy who played for him in San Jose. Yallop was a coach who played his friends and former teammates at the expense of having a fair competition and ultimately greatly reduced the chances of Canada qualifying for the World Cup. His decision to play Watson was a reason why Nsaliwa, Watson's most serious competitor, was not called even as a sub and replaced by inadequate USL players. Both Lars and Nsaliwa realized this and this led to a deterioration in their relationship with Yallop. Yallop also did not call Aguair because he and Watson did not get along. Yallop's favouritism lessened as his buddies got older and thus were no longer available but he still favoured docile players who didn't rock the boat or speak their mind. This characteristic is what made Yallop a bad national team coach. After the WCQ both Lars and Nsaliwa were pissed off so it is unclear who was most responsible for them not being called but I think both players refused callups. However, none of this is a CSA conspiracy. The CSA is mostly a bunch of bureaucrats who couldn't care who started and have very little influence on such decisions. This has a lot more to do with the players relations with the coaching staff. There may be some holdover bad feelings since Hart was Yallop's assistant but we have seen a couple of other players show up a bit more regularly since Yallop left. I think if the CSA hires a good coach he will look at all the players and play those who perform well. If they hire another crap coach we will probably end up with further player alienations though it may be different players.

[wildboy26]

I actually expected when Yallop left the corruption and politics around the MNT would be gone, which is why I even tried to rescind my bet about Lars not starting for Canada again at one point. Since my presumption was the most deserving people would play, which would obviously mean out with the Kennys of the World, and in with the Lars and Nsaliwas of the World. It turns out though things are just as they were since the awful Yallop took over as coach, everything run by corruption and politics, not on merit and legitimacy.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Kenny is on track for his fourth consecutive relegation. That is not a good sign. I agree his performances for us have been fine though not perhaps stellar, and that he has a good attitude for us. But on paper he should not be number one.

Just want to respond in his favour to Derosario23 about the 2nd goal vs. Spain. First, it was their 2nd and we had not scored, so you can't talk about holding on to a draw when we were not tied. Second, look at it well and you see it was damn hard to hold onto, almost impossible. The problem on that goal was that our mids let the inside pass go through, no pressure on the playmaker.

It is not a question of slagging Kenny, but as I say, in terms of club play he is behind a few others.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by wildboy26

I actually expected when Yallop left the corruption and politics around the MNT would be gone, which is why I even tried to rescind my bet about Lars not starting for Canada again at one point. Since my presumption was the most deserving people would play, which would obviously mean out with the Kennys of the World, and in with the Lars and Nsaliwas of the World. It turns out though things are just as they were since the awful Yallop took over as coach, everything run by corruption and politics, not on merit and legitimacy.

It's funny how you weren't posting when Lars went years without playing regular club football and was only playing domestically at an amateur level.

And yes, unlike Sutton and Stamatopolous, he had some poor games for Canada. Both Sutton and Kenny were playing more consistent, and at a higher level, but were largely ignored. Why weren't you complaining then ?

You have stated that he does not get along with some teammates, and he has stated publicly that he wanted to concentrate on his club, so I don't think it's really that surprising that he has not been called lately.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Yallop also did not call Aguair because he and Watson did not get along.

You're joking, right?

Aguiar "didn't get along" with Lenarduzzi and Osieck, either.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

You're joking, right?

Aguiar "didn't get along" with Lenarduzzi and Osieck, either.

Aguiar was surely also partly to blame for his problems with several coaches yet I think he was justifiably upset at not being chosen by Yallop to play in a friendly in which all of our big name players should have played. I don't agree with him (or Nsaliwa and possibly Lars) removing himself from the player pool but more professional conduct on the part of the coach probably would have prevented this. All of the last three coaches had significant personal problems with a much too large number of players. Part of a good (and I emphasize the word good as we have rarely had this) national team trainer's job is to get along with the players and nurse the big egos that many of them have. There will always be the odd personality conflict but all of the tenures of the three coaches above were marked by constant player-coach conflicts.

Lenarduzzi and Yallop in my opinion lacked international calibre coaching and talent judging abilities and shamelessly and obviously played favourites in player selection. Favouritism will always lead to conflict and player alienation. Ossieck was much more qualified to be a national team coach but had a difficult personality which was his undoing in the end. Nor did he or Yallop seem to realize that they couldn't be handle their international players the same way they can handle club players. International players can't be transferred in and out at will if the coach doesn't like them and in addition they are also playing because they want to not because it is their job. We couldn't trade Radzinski for Dwight Yorke if both of them were not getting along with their national team coaches.

Canada does not have the player pool to be hiring coaches that are not going to get along with a significant number of our players. Yallop was supposed to end this but actually seemed to alienate more players more quickly than Ossieck or Lenarduzzi did though he did make up with a few later on (but after our less than glorious exit from WCQ). There will always be players with difficult personalities that need to be managed but Canada needs to have a coach who in addition to excellent tactical and player evaluation skills can also manage the personalities effectively instead of adding his own difficult personality and/or player biases to the mix. I am still waiting to see us field a coach who can effectively evaluate our players and create a professional environment where every player knows that if he performs well enough he will be given the chance to play.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

All of the last three coaches had significant personal problems with a much too large number of players. Part of a good (and I emphasize the word good as we have rarely had this) national team trainer's job is to get along with the players and nurse the big egos that many of them have. There will always be the odd personality conflict but all of the tenures of the three coaches above were marked by constant player-coach conflicts.

So, in your opinion, who was the last national team manager who was able to effectively handle man management? Waiters?

[Grizzly]

Yes I would say Waiters although to be fair it was a long time ago and there may be incidents I am forgetting. Yet I can't remember any former players saying anything negative about Waiters and how he ran the team and you can't argue with success. Some other non-Canadian coaches I think are good man managers were Craig Brown with Scotland, Rudi Voller with Germany and Otmar Hitzfeld with Bayern. Even Ede Geyer (brought Energie Cottbus from 3rd division to the Bundesliga) who is known as Germany's toughest coach and is nicknamed Mercyless seems to have a sense of humour that Osieck never had. He would sometimes joke with the media and the players about how tough he was and many players said that he would be mercyless on the field if he didn't think you were giving enough effort but he was always willing to help any player if they had any sort of problem. Osieck just seemed overly serious and humourless at times and unwilling to make any sort of compromise. One thing in Osieck's favour though is he is the only recent coach who seemed to have a passion for the job and a burning desire to change how soccer is run in the country so that we would suceed (and this even though he was a foreigner). It is really hard to get players to give 100% if you are lukewarm yourself and we saw the extent of Yallop's passion and commitment when he jumped at the first available offer. In general I think Yallop managed the team in a very selfish manner, ie. the good of Yallop was put before the good of the team.

[The Ref]

Waiters did not get along with Tino Lettieri and George Pekos, or maybe the other way around.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Waiters did not get along with Tino Lettieri and George Pekos, or maybe the other way around.

Waiters coached the team for five years, if he didn't get along with two players in five years that is acceptable and far less player problems than Lenarduzzi, Ossieck or Yallop. It must also be noted that whatever the relationship was between Waiters and Lettieri (a bit of a nutcase) and Pakos, both played in World Cup qualifying and the World Cup itself, ie. relations were not so bad that anyone boycotted the team or refused to play for Waiters.

[An Observer]

I personally do not think you can compare Osiek's and Yallops man management skills. By most accounts, the players Yallop selected seemed to quite like him, his style, and were happy to play for him. If there were disgruntled players, they seem to be the one's that were left out like Nsaliwa, Aguiar, possibly Bircham, etc. That is not man management, that is player selection. On the latter point, I questioned Yallop's judgment at the time and still do. With respect to Lars, he played 18 months ago against Portugal and seemed to have a good relationship with Yallop. If there was a breakdown, it was when he (claimed) was injured for the Luxembourg match. Since then he has not played for the national team, but that may have more to do with Lars concentrating on his club side than any breakdown with Yallop or the CSA. I believe Yallop is a very good man manager and you here that coming through with the players that have been interviewed by him. I questioned his player selection for the last WC when he left out too many veterans for players like Simpson, Peters, etc. who were not tested at that level; and he was woefully underprepared in spite of taking over the team about 7 months before qualifying started. He needed to demand some friendlies in that period. We only played Wales, San Jose before the Belize matches where we used a number of players who had not been in the national team pool. Lack of preparation may have been the CSA's fault but I would have thought in taking the job he would have made it clear he needed at least 5 or 6 matches before qualifying started.

With Osiek, it was well documented that the players revolted against him which led to his firing. He is simply not a man manager and is in my mind a better techincal director or possibly a league side manager where players are required to play for their livelyhood. He understood all too late that for national side football, you need to be flexible.

[Darcy Fett]

Yallop was a coach who favored his old buddies, much like a boys club, he never wanted to hurt the feelings of any players by being strict and running a very disciplined team...to be a successful coach you need to run a tight camp and not always be worried about whether or not your players like you...Osieck was this kind of coach, he ran a disciplined team much like that of the germans who have done well over their histroy due to it...i think the players that revolted against Osieck just didn't want to have to put in the work needed to be a comptetive team, we need to remember that Osieck was at one time the assistant coach to Beckenbauer in Germany, what the hell has Yallop ever done...we were lucky to have a coach with such a passion and eye for the game, if only our players weren't such baby's

As for Lars not been called up lately, much of it has to do with the way he was shunned by Yallop and the CSA, he would rather focus on his career than play for a team that will drop you the first chance they get...Sutton plays well in the MLS, however the MLS is fifth rate when compared to anything in Europe, i mean could this be why MLS teams are not included in any of the major club competitions? Kenny is playing for last place Tromso who hasnt had any success since Lars played for them and made them respectable...Lars will more than likely be playing in the Champions League next year and I don't see how he could not be considered Canada's best option in net.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Darcy Fett

Yallop was a coach who favored his old buddies, much like a boys club, he never wanted to hurt the feelings of any players by being strict and running a very disciplined team...to be a successful coach you need to run a tight camp and not always be worried about whether or not your players like you...Osieck was this kind of coach, he ran a disciplined team much like that of the germans who have done well over their histroy due to it...i think the players that revolted against Osieck just didn't want to have to put in the work needed to be a comptetive team, we need to remember that Osieck was at one time the assistant coach to Beckenbauer in Germany, what the hell has Yallop ever done...we were lucky to have a coach with such a passion and eye for the game, if only our players weren't such baby's

As for Lars not been called up lately, much of it has to do with the way he was shunned by Yallop and the CSA, he would rather focus on his career than play for a team that will drop you the first chance they get...Sutton plays well in the MLS, however the MLS is fifth rate when compared to anything in Europe, i mean could this be why MLS teams are not included in any of the major club competitions? Kenny is playing for last place Tromso who hasnt had any success since Lars played for them and made them respectable...Lars will more than likely be playing in the Champions League next year and I don't see how he could not be considered Canada's best option in net.

So you ARE saying it is not all the coach's decision, it is Lars as well?

Are we supposed to take that as authoritative given you are personally related to him?

Or should we wonder considering you have said Sutton plays for the MLS, which he does not, and that the MLS is not involved in important club competitions, which it most certainly is.

Which reminds me, is Toronto FC going to be involved in the Concacaf club championship from the start, effectively during their first pre-season?

Back to the subject: I agree that now that Fernandes is tied to Portugal Lars is on paper our strongest keeper, though we have not necessarily seen the best Lars for Canada for a long time.

[wildboy26]

Lars is slotted as the #4 Canadian keeper behind Sutton, Statamapolous and Waagenaar. He will fall even lower as more young guys come up. I am surprised anyone honestly thinks he would ever be asked to play a game for Canada again. He will only be asked to any games ever again to backup.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by wildboy26

Lars is slotted as the #4 Canadian keeper behind Sutton, Statamapolous and Waagenaar. He will fall even lower as more young guys come up. I am surprised anyone honestly thinks he would ever be asked to play a game for Canada again. He will only be asked to any games ever again to backup.

Wildboy, I need to ask when the last time you saw any of these keepers play was? You seem to have such a great analysis of their ability, that you must see them play often. So, when?

[Guest Ed]

We should have seen it coming with Yallop as the boys had a holiday in the sun in Kingston town (reminds me of one of my fave bands). Lars had every right to be p*ssed but it's high time someone got on the phone and did a bit of pleading. We need our best on the field.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I personally do not think you can compare Osiek's and Yallops man management skills. By most accounts, the players Yallop selected seemed to quite like him, his style, and were happy to play for him. If there were disgruntled players, they seem to be the one's that were left out like Nsaliwa, Aguiar, possibly Bircham, etc. That is not man management, that is player selection. On the latter point, I questioned Yallop's judgment at the time and still do. With respect to Lars, he played 18 months ago against Portugal and seemed to have a good relationship with Yallop. If there was a breakdown, it was when he (claimed) was injured for the Luxembourg match. Since then he has not played for the national team, but that may have more to do with Lars concentrating on his club side than any breakdown with Yallop or the CSA. I believe Yallop is a very good man manager and you here that coming through with the players that have been interviewed by him. I questioned his player selection for the last WC when he left out too many veterans for players like Simpson, Peters, etc. who were not tested at that level; and he was woefully underprepared in spite of taking over the team about 7 months before qualifying started. He needed to demand some friendlies in that period. We only played Wales, San Jose before the Belize matches where we used a number of players who had not been in the national team pool. Lack of preparation may have been the CSA's fault but I would have thought in taking the job he would have made it clear he needed at least 5 or 6 matches before qualifying started.

Yes Yallop and Osieck had very different styles of man management but it led to the same result, alienated players. Your argument that Yallop was a good man manager seems to be that the players that he liked, favoured and selected liked him and the players that he didn't like and didn't select didn't like him in turn. It is saying he was a popular coach by polling only those players who liked him and not the player pool as a whole. Yallop was well liked by his buddies on the team and disliked by those he didn't select mostly because they felt their lack of selection was not based on merit. This is extremely poor man management. Player selection and how it is done is a big part of man management. If players feel that they are being given a fair shake and being chosen on merit the majority will accept a coach's decision. If they feel selections are being made for reasons of favouritism and bias they will be alienated and this is exactly what happened with Yallop. Lars is a particular good example of this. In contrast to your claim he had a good relationship with Yallop, Lars stated last year in an interview how disappointed he was to come to his first camp with Yallop and find that he had been removed from the starters job before the camp without any pretense of a fair competition for the job. He also hasn't played for us since this interview was published.

The one similarity between the man management styles of Yallop and Osieck is that both styles work much better at the professional level. If a player can't hack Osieck's tough style he can be transferred out. Likewise, Yallop can pick and choose who he likes and wants to have on his team at the pro level and can also transfer out those he dislikes. However, we have a limited and static player pool so it is necessary to have a coach who is not prone to alienated a large number of players.

[Darcy Fett]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

So you ARE saying it is not all the coach's decision, it is Lars as well?

Are we supposed to take that as authoritative given you are personally related to him?

Or should we wonder considering you have said Sutton plays for the MLS, which he does not, and that the MLS is not involved in important club competitions, which it most certainly is.

Which reminds me, is Toronto FC going to be involved in the Concacaf club championship from the start, effectively during their first pre-season?

Back to the subject: I agree that now that Fernandes is tied to Portugal Lars is on paper our strongest keeper, though we have not necessarily seen the best Lars for Canada for a long time.

u can take it however you want bu i happen to know that the fact that lars is not playing in friendlies with canada has partly to do with his unwillingness to play for an organization that had abandoned him in the first place...and as for the MLS playing in major club competitions there are only two that I even consider and that is the Champions League and the UEFA cup which they do not play in...any concacaf tourny is not a competitive tournament, if you wanna play real soccer get your ass to europe or sit on the bench for your national team...Sutton is an overrated goalie and always has been, even while he was playing in North America and Lars was backup in Tottenham Lars was still "sitting" at a much higher level than Sutton was "playing"...all of you that think Sutton has more credentials than Lars need to look at the records...who won goalie of the tournament in the Gold Cup when Canada came third? LARS....Who beat Galatassaray in the UEFA cup in Istanbul, one of the toughest stadiums in the world to be a visitor, ? LARS...What has Sutton done of note? NOTHING!!!

[wildboy26]

People talk about Sutton as the teams #1 but in reality it is the even more overrated Kenny Statamapolous who is the CSA's choice as Canadas #1 goalie. He has been given 4 of the last 6 starts after all. Statamapolous is who the CSA believes is the best Canadian goalkeepers, Lars Hirschfeld is who they believe is the 4th best Canadiann goalkeeper. Try saying that without bursting out into laughter.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by wildboy26

People talk about Sutton as the teams #1 but in reality it is the even more overrated Kenny Statamapolous who is the CSA's choice as Canadas #1 goalie. He has been given 4 of the last 6 starts after all. Statamapolous is who the CSA believes is the best Canadian goalkeepers, Lars Hirschfeld is who they believe is the 4th best Canadiann goalkeeper. Try saying that without bursting out into laughter.

If Lars thinks anything like you (I am assuming you are related) then I can now see why he does not get along with his teammates.

Poor attitude, doesn't get along with teammates, and he has stated that he wants to concentrate on his club. Wow, I wonder why he hasn't been called ?!

As for coaches stating that Kenny is our #1, that is pure rubbish. They have in fact stated in the past that Sutton is our #1. That said, I have seen Lars play much worse for Canada than Kenny ever has, so maybe that's not such a bad deal.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Darcy Fett

u can take it however you want bu i happen to know that the fact that lars is not playing in friendlies with canada has partly to do with his unwillingness to play for an organization that had abandoned him in the first place...and as for the MLS playing in major club competitions there are only two that I even consider and that is the Champions League and the UEFA cup which they do not play in...any concacaf tourny is not a competitive tournament, if you wanna play real soccer get your ass to europe or sit on the bench for your national team...Sutton is an overrated goalie and always has been, even while he was playing in North America and Lars was backup in Tottenham Lars was still "sitting" at a much higher level than Sutton was "playing"...all of you that think Sutton has more credentials than Lars need to look at the records...who won goalie of the tournament in the Gold Cup when Canada came third? LARS....Who beat Galatassaray in the UEFA cup in Istanbul, one of the toughest stadiums in the world to be a visitor, ? LARS...What has Sutton done of note? NOTHING!!!

Abandoned him??? In what manner? Does he have a permanent right to be Canada #1??? Just by reading the arguments that we've seen on this board the Lars vs Onstad debate is an interesting one with no real conclusive answer to it but let's remeber that at that time Lars wasn't good enough for Leceister and Dundee where he had some very bad games. His situation has changed since that time.

Lars could've been a starter for the 2004 WCQ based on past National Team achievements and not his club form of that moment which was poor.

I'm also glad to hear that Lars can afford to spit on the NT staff and players because he has better things to do, like playing in Europe...he has short memories for a guy who landed a job at Tottenham just after the 2002 Gold Cup he played with CMNT....

BTW, it's nice to see you (a Lars relative) taking shot at Sutton and Kenny when you're saying that it's Lars decision not to play for Canada.

Why did Jim Brennan came back to the squad after his 2004 "exclusion" (he had much more arguments in his favor than Lars vs Onstad) and Lars can afford to refuse callups. In Holger days that would've not been tolerated.

[Guest Ed]

Well, funny you should say "In Holger's days that would've not been tolerated". In Holger's days, Lars was number 1, and Onstad was very clearly not the first choice keeper for Holger. Yet Lars lost his number 1 spot with no competition due to the fact that Yallop preferred to play his pals and/or favourites ahead of our established starters.

[loyola]

The point isn't whjo would've been #1 under Holger. The point is this kind of primadona attitude would've not been tolerated by Holger, and it seems that it wasn't tolerated by Yallop too...

But what's your opinion about this situation Ed? At first it was the coaches who were ignoring Lars, now it seems that it's Lars who's ignoring his NT and teammates.

[wildboy26]

Lars has every right to ignore the MNT and his teammates. He was stripped of his starting job before the WCQ in 2004 when a new coach took over, and since then demoted below both the inferior Sutton and Statamapolous, and basicaly shunned from the program and not allowed to compete on equal ground. He should give them absolutely nothing, since all they have done is spit in his face for almost 3 years.

There is a reason alot of other players are taking advantage of their duel citizenship of late, and it would be nice if Lars also had duel citizenship so he had an option then to be under more then only the jurisdication of a country who excludes him, and dumps him far below inferior people.

[wildboy26]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Actions speak louder then words. Like I said Kenny Statamapolous has started 4 of the last 6 games, and he splits starts with Sutton even while he is horrable over in Europe. So I take that as him being the #1 right now. I certainly dont take anything a MNT coach without a grain of salt.

Lars has played worse for Canada then Kenny has? Well since Kenny didnt even finish the game vs Jamaica, dont be so sure of that. Has Kenny played a team as tough as the Portugal team Lars struggled against though?