Niagara CPL

[matty]

1 hour ago, DoyleG said:

Actually, the ones who say that Victoria is a separate market are correct.

Vancouver stations make no effort to reach out to Victoria viewers. Rogers only exists on OTA here as the transmitter hasn't broken down yet. Cable is the only way Vancouver stations can be reached and anything coming over the radio barely comes through most of the time.

Its much easier to get media content from Bellingham and Seattle compared the Vancouver. A poorly set up webpage from New York shows how clueless people are about the market.

yea no. the source on that is think tv, a toronto based research firm who are considered a canadian version of nielsen in many regards. again the definition is stupid (same for hamilton being included with toronto) but it is the industry view.

Edited May 14, 2019 by matty

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, matty said:

yea no. the source on that is think tv, a toronto based research firm who are considered a canadian version of nielsen in many regards. again the definition is stupid (same for hamilton being included with toronto) but it is the industry view.

People are confusing de facto media markets, which is what is relevant for this debate, and DMAs or Designated Markets, which are highly arbitrary in many cases and are really used for media survey companies, also for stats taking. If you want to follow the logic, there are two such markets in Manitoba and up to 6 in Saskatchewan, which is not at all useful for what we are talking about. 

 

[matty]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

People are confusing de facto media markets, which is what is relevant for this debate, and DMAs or Designated Markets, which are highly arbitrary in many cases and are really used for media survey companies, also for stats taking. If you want to follow the logic, there are two such markets in Manitoba and up to 6 in Saskatchewan, which is not at all useful for what we are talking about. 

dmas are also used for advertising which is a massive part of sport. at this point I actually just think you're trying to find any excuse to be a big man like you do often. do you actually think the cpl and mediapro are not looking at markets and considering that?

Edited May 14, 2019 by matty

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, matty said:

dmas are also used for advertising which is a massive part of sport. at this point I actually just think you're trying to find any excuse to be a big man like you do often. do you actually think the cpl and mediapro are not looking at markets and considering that?

No, maybe you are trying to be a big man arguing on the basis of DMAs and officially sanctioned media markets. Which is irrelevant: a city like Yorkton is designated as a separate DMA from the rest of Saskatchewan, which is why, following your obstinacy, Yorkton will get special MediaPro treatment in case of a Saskatchewan team. It's senseless.

While Vancouver and Victoria are together. 

I don't know why someone with no idea of BC media would want to argue with people who actually know how the press and markets work. And I can assure you: Victoria and the lower part of Vancouver Island need specific separate marketing, have distinct problems, and operate on different criteria than Vancouver. The folks at PFC actually did their homework in this regard, identifying specific reasons to NOT call the team by Victoria (as the it is not even the most populated municipality in Greater Victoria!!), to work on the VanIsle branding (which has no real history) and target all of the island Nanaimo south as a potential market.

[matty]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, maybe you are trying to be a big man arguing on the basis of DMAs and officially sanctioned media markets. Which is irrelevant: a city like Yorkton is designated as a separate DMA from the rest of Saskatchewan, which is why, following your obstinacy, Yorkton will get special MediaPro treatment in case of a Saskatchewan team. It's senseless.

While Vancouver and Victoria are together. 

I don't know why someone with no idea of BC media would want to argue with people who actually know how the press and markets work. And I can assure you: Victoria and the lower part of Vancouver Island need specific separate marketing, have distinct problems, and operate on different criteria than Vancouver. The folks at PFC actually did their homework in this regard, identifying specific reasons to NOT call the team by Victoria (as the it is not even the most populated municipality in Greater Victoria!!), to work on the VanIsle branding (which has no real history) and target all of the island Nanaimo south as a potential market.

This convesation went as follows

You: Victoria is a meh media market
Me: It is part of the 3rd largest in the country
You: NO
Me: Yea it's dumb but industry sees it that way
You: That doesn't count
Me: It's what most organization look at. It's dumb but it's a thing
You: NO. FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE TRUMPS ANY MEDIA RESEARCH FIRM

Like shit you're just attacking for the sake of attacking rather than just acknowledging that that fact exists. I've worked in this section and nationally and internationally they are looked at as a single market when discussing TV and radio. They 100% did their homework and it is something they are aware of.

Edited May 15, 2019 by matty

[Alex D]

This thread is peak voyageurs

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, matty said:

This convesation went as follows

You: Victoria is a meh media market
Me: It is part of the 3rd largest in the country
You: NO
Me: Yea it's dumb but industry sees it that way
You: That doesn't count
Me: It's what most organization look at. It's dumb but it's a thing
You: NO. FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE TRUMPS ANY MEDIA RESEARCH FIRM

Like **** you're just attacking for the sake of attacking rather than just acknowledging that that fact exists. I've worked in this section and nationally and internationally they are looked at as a single market when discussing TV and radio. They 100% did their homework and it is something they are aware of.

@matty wins, but in the same way at the church beat Galileo: eppur si muove.

 

[Ams1984]

21 hours ago, matty said:

This convesation went as follows

You: Victoria is a meh media market
Me: It is part of the 3rd largest in the country
You: NO
Me: Yea it's dumb but industry sees it that way
You: That doesn't count
Me: It's what most organization look at. It's dumb but it's a thing
You: NO. FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE TRUMPS ANY MEDIA RESEARCH FIRM

Like **** you're just attacking for the sake of attacking rather than just acknowledging that that fact exists. I've worked in this section and nationally and internationally they are looked at as a single market when discussing TV and radio. They 100% did their homework and it is something they are aware of.

Vintage UT.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Winding things back to the subject matter what can be drawn from there being "a number of groups in Ontario" as opposed to "a few in Quebec" according to David Clanachan? Made it sound like five or more are looking at it across southern Ontario, so Niagara may well be part of the mix.

[Alex D]

I struggle to see who the money behind a Niagara team would be. We have a coupe mildly wealthy hoteliers but not much outside that. 

[to70]

TBH I don't think there is enough soccer support to make a CPL franchise viable. There isn't even a men's league in St Catharines or Niagara FallsI think there is one in Welland. This is Blue Jays/Leafs and Bills/Sabres country. Not even much interest in the Raptors

[Ivan]

4 minutes ago, to70 said:

TBH I don't think there is enough soccer support to make a CPL franchise viable. There isn't even a men's league in St Catharines or Niagara FallsI think there is one in Welland. This is Blue Jays/Leafs and Bills/Sabres country. Not even much interest in the Raptors

I don't think this is true.  There is at least one men's leagues with multiple divisions that span the peninsula.  A women's league as well.  I don't play, but a few of my buddies do.  Each centre has burgeoning youth programs as well.   I was involved in youth soccer but haven't been in a while. I don't think support will be a problem if marketed properly.  Roma Wolves used to draw in the hundreds for their games.  Again, not sure, but I would think Niagara stands as good a chance as other "smaller" communities, although I agree with Alex D.  Not sure where the money would come from.

I did hear a rumour that a Welland businessman was interested in bringing a CSL team to Welland a while ago.  That was a while ago, and the budget would be way less than a CPL team would be.

[narduch]

How well are the OHL Ice Dogs supported?

Their owners are in trouble for illegal payments to players though.

Edited May 16, 2019 by narduch

[Ivan]

Ice Dogs get good crowds.  I went to about 5 games this year.  Place was pretty packed each time.

[to70]

I know there is a Peninsula comp league but there is no rec league. St catharines was always represented in the old NSL with Club Roma with very able leadership and facilities and with Heidelberg before that. Welland didn't fare that well in the NSL with several attempts. There are several successful youth Clubs especially the Jets on the Ladies side, but just don't there there is money to support the venture at the CPL level. L1O would be probably be the level for the area.

Edited May 16, 2019 by to70