MtlMario Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Robert said: I hope that the CPL intends to publish "Match Reports" for all of the league games. If they do, I am willing to post attendance figures for the inaugural season, 1987. The 's opening game was played May 26, 1987 in Aylmer, Quebec and saw the hometown Ottawa Pioneers and Hamilton Steelers play to a 0–0 draw in steady drizzle in front of 2,500 spectators. An "attendance comparison" between the inaugural and CPL seasons would be useful to determine whether or not the Canadian interest in attending a domestic league has grown sufficiently enough to make such a league a viable business. I was at that game FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Kent said: Thanks for the tidbit. Do you know what the most attended game was in the first CSL season? I'm curious about learning more about CSL attendance. I do know what the attendances were for each of the 84 regular season matches and each of the 4 play-off matches for the 1987 season. I'll tell you, it sure took me a lot of hours to collect all of that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 The following is an Archie McDoanald article, which appeared in the Vancouver Sun, on Thursday, February 26, 1987, three months prior to the inaugural CLS match: Question: If God had wanted a Canadian Soccer League why did he make the country so big? Answer: Because He owns shares in an airline. You know how many national leagues have survived in this roomy dominion? Exactly one, the Canadian Football League, which is hardly a bull market at the moment. But the CSL is prepared to fly in the face of history; ready to take off in June with eight teams stretching from Vancouver to Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg in the West, and from Toronto to Hamilton, North York, and Ottawa in the East. Dale Barnes, the league commissioner, addressed the Vancouver media Wednesday and sold a believable combination of raw enthusiasm tempered with practicality. He says autopsies on the demise of the North American Soccer League fingered eight leading causes of death, including commissioner Phil Woosnam's shortage of knowledge of the game and his lack of control over franchises. As a lifelong player and most recently as TSN's play-by-play man at last summer's World Cup, Barnes should not be found wanting on the first point, and he says he won't let the second happen. He preaches common sense, a one for all, all for one approach, starting from a very modest beginnings. The schedule, which will be completed at league meetings here this weekend, is expected to be a model of coming to grips with the cost of airline tickets. The Vancouver 86ers will make two swings through the western division, a total of six games, and one journey to the east for four more. Throw in 10 home dates and you have a neat 20 game schedule. General manager Buzz Parsons says seven 86ers' games will be on Sunday evenings, two on Wednesday, one on Tuesday. A season ticket costs $70 for an adult, half that for students and senior citizens. He expects to fill the 4,800 seats at Swangard Stadium on a regular basis. The league satisfies several wishes, the first being Canada's need for a crucible in which to forge its national team players. It has the support of the 400,000 member strong Canadian Soccer Association and will provide the top rung on the CSA's development ladder. There will be a draft of eligle CSA players in October. The league also is assuming it will meet a public desire for higher calibre soccer entertainment than currently exists. But after the failure of NASL no one is sure what tastes have to be satisfied. One item that will gladden the lily white hearts of purists is that all eight teams will play on real grass in smaller, low rent parks. The biggest site is Varsity Stadium in Toronto where the Blizzard will play. Among the smallest is Mewata Stadium in Calgary where the Kickers are already bringing in new seats after selling out more than 2,000 season tickets. The owner in Ottawa is Earl Himes, who knows little of the grand old game. He has a head for business, however, and he quickly passed on Lansdowne Stadium and moved to a little park across the Quebec border in Aylmer. The town gave him 51 per cent of the park plus concession rights for the privilege of having a team in a national league. There will be a ceiling placed on player salaries--about $300,000--but Parsons says the 86ers won't approach that figure in their first year. Practices will be held so that players can maintain outside jobs. Barnes is confident the league will grow. He rattles off a dozen cities which already have made inquiries about joining the empire. For just a second he sounds like a distant echo of Woosnam predicting the NASL would some day embrace virtually every city in North America. That is a lesson learned. "There is no more instant soccer," he says. "We must crawl before we walk, walk before we run." So far, so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Interesting that they were talking about 12 more cities showing interest at the start of the CSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Kent said: Interesting that they were talking about 12 more cities showing interest at the start of the CSL. What stands out the most in the above article for me is: "There will be a ceiling placed on player salaries--about $300,000--but Parsons says the 86ers won't approach that figure in their first year. Practices will be held so that players can maintain outside jobs." My concern with that is if the CPL decides to adopt a similar approach, it will mean that local players will have to find part-time jobs in order to subsidize what CPL clubs will pay them, in order that the lion's share of the club's payroll budget can be spent on signing foreign players. If this is not the case, then what caliber of foreign players are clubs signing if these players have to find part-time employment in a community that they are not familiar with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 ^^^That was over 30 years ago! No doubt an interesting bit of time travel for some but it has zero relevance today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 ^ And I'd remind everyone, "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Initial B said: ^ And I'd remind everyone, "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." The past is nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. It is, of course, very relevant for those wanting to learn from past mistakes, in order to avoid repeating them. Perhaps making a few NOW & THEN comparisons, based on the above article, could prove useful to those investing into the CPL. If not, it certainly can't hurt to discuss the differences for those who wish to do so. The following shows the list of teams competing in 2019 and 1987: Western Division 2019 1987 Calgary Cavalry FC Calgary Kickers FC Edmonton Edmonton Brickmen Winnipeg Valor FC Winnipeg Fury Victoria Pacific FC Vancouver 86ers Eastern Division 2019 1987 Hamilton Forge FC Hamilton Steelers York9 FC North York Rockets Halifax Wanderers FC Toronto Blizzard Ottawa Pioneers Yes, I am aware that there is no way the CPL is able to use an East - West format. The point I trying to make is that the cities represented are very similar in 2019 as those that were back in 1987. Canada, aside from our melting polar cap, is still the same size. Distances between cities have not changed. However, airfares and hotel rates have incurred material escalations. Speaking of money, and how much more expensive life has become, lets take a look at season tickets prices. For the sake of brevity, lets limit this discussion to the 2019 Victoria Pacific FC season ticket prices for 14 home matches and 1 championship match, and the 1987 Vancouver 86ers season ticket prices for 10 home matches: 2019 Victoria Pacific FC 1987 Vancouver 86ers South End Suites N/A Adult $70.00 VIP Fieldside $999.75 Student $35.00 Premium Centre $375.00 Senior $35.00 Centre Field $585.00 Midfield $435.00 Sideline $360.00 West End $330.00 General Admission $247.50 The CSL announced its full regular season schedule on February 28th, a total of 87 days before the May 26th start of the 1987 season. The CPL has announced one regular season match thus far, with only 74 days to go before the April 27th season opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What is your goal with this thread @Robert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: What is your goal with this thread @Robert? Are you new here?!? Same as his goal every night Pinky, to take over the world crap on the CanPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 ^^^ @Robert You forgot to mention the 1994 World Cup, which Canada was co-hosting, thus providing many sponsorship and marketing opportunities that would not have been available had Canada not been co-hosting in 1994 (since the CSL started 7 years ahead of that World Cup, just as the CPL is starting 7 years ahead of the 2026 World Cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Initial B said: ^ And I'd remind everyone, "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." And I'd remind everyone, "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Ultimately, the key assumption in 1987 that "the league also is assuming it will meet a public desire for higher calibre soccer entertainment than currently exists," continues to be the key assumption today. The key question thus becomes: Are there enough Canadians that desire a higher caliber soccer entertainment than the current 3 Canadian MLS clubs provide to support a domestic league? I really don't know the answer to that question. I guess time will tell, however, judging from some the above reactions, there appear to be a few who aren't really all too confident that there are a sufficient number of Canadian who have such a desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Robert said: Distances between cities have not changed. However, airfares and hotel rates have incurred material escalations. Care to cite some evidence for this, pal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said: Care to cite some evidence for this, pal? London calling to the faraway towns ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 A very quick search online, using Skyscanner, shows that a return flight from Calgary to Toronto for a late-June weekend can be had for about $450. In 1987 dollars, that'd be a little more than $200. Is your position that a similar flight could be had in 1987 for significantly less than $200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senorpopps Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I imagine such escalations would be inflation-related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 hours ago, SthMelbRed said: A very quick search online, using Skyscanner, shows that a return flight from Calgary to Toronto for a late-June weekend can be had for about $450. In 1987 dollars, that'd be a little more than $200. Is your position that a similar flight could be had in 1987 for significantly less than $200? Assuming all things being equal, and applying the same calculations used in your argument: "which is that the dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 2.60% per year during this period. In other words, $1 in 1987 is equivalent in purchasing power to $2.22 in 2018, a difference of $1.22 over 31 years," how would you account for the increase in season ticket prices over that same period, which have increased at a significantly higher rate than 2.60%. Also, do you think the same increases would apply to the 2019 contracts of Kyle Porter or Simon Karlsson Adjei, as compared to the 1987 contracts of Domenic Mobilio or Nick Gilbert? It is also interesting to note that Pacific FC does not offer discounts to students and seniors. How times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 This talk of historical airfares got me googling. One advantage now that the original CSL didn't have was the advent of low-cost carriers. Airfare prices now are roughly half the cost they were in 1987, when adjusted for inflation. Maybe technology will allow this adventure to work this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Initial B said: This talk of historical airfares got me googling. One advantage now that the original CSL didn't have was the advent of low-cost carriers. Airfare prices now are roughly half the cost they were in 1987, when adjusted for inflation. Maybe technology will allow this adventure to work this time? But, have you accounted for the 'material escalations' as detailed in Robert's Rules for the Mentally Unstable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Initial B said: This talk of historical airfares got me googling. One advantage now that the original CSL didn't have was the advent of low-cost carriers. Airfare prices now are roughly half the cost they were in 1987, when adjusted for inflation. Maybe technology will allow this adventure to work this time? No doubt it's a big advantage to have the benefit of technology on your side. However, seat sales usually only represent a limited number of seats on every flight. This might be beneficial for the individual traveler, but whether those same discounts apply to a soccer team flying from Victoria to Halifax on specific dates is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Robert said: No doubt it's a big advantage to have the benefit of technology on your side. However, seat sales usually only represent a limited number of seats on every flight. This might be beneficial for the individual traveler, but whether those same discounts apply to a soccer team flying from Victoria to Halifax on specific dates is questionable. Yes, this is the problem with setting up away trips. People look at the lowest common denominator for a price on a discount one off ticket and declare you are ripping everyone off. They immediately say how awesome they are 'cause they don't travel with groups and will go their own way blah blah blah.... and then said trip falls through. Group discounts are not what anyone thinks. It's entirely possible for an individual to book the same flight, same hotel as our group for less. It doesn't mean Voyageurs Criminal Travel Enterprises is at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Airfares are not the thing that is going to make or break the league. If we say the average plane ticket is $500 and there are 24 people flying to each away match, that is $12,000 that must be covered by the corresponding home match. At an average of $20 per match ticket that is 600 fans. Or, put another way, $168,000 over a 28 game season. Contrast that number with the expected player wage bill. Attendance is the key, along with non ticket revenue streams (which will be inevitably related to attendance numbers). So long as these are sufficient, the league will do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, admin said: Yes, this is the problem with setting up away trips. People look at the lowest common denominator for a price on a discount one off ticket and declare you are ripping everyone off. They immediately say how awesome they are 'cause they don't travel with groups and will go their own way blah blah blah.... and then said trip falls through. Group discounts are not what anyone thinks. It's entirely possible for an individual to book the same flight, same hotel as our group for less. It doesn't mean Voyageurs Criminal Travel Enterprises is at work. That's exactly what I experienced in 2014 flying from Vancouver to Toronto with the Manson family for the Hall of Fame induction. In hindsight effort required wasn't worth the savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert said: That's exactly what I experienced in 2014 flying from Vancouver to Toronto with the Manson family for the Hall of Fame induction. In hindsight effort required wasn't worth the savings. FML, that was five years ago.... There were way too many fancy cars in that parking lot, and I mean like serious fancy.... .lol I had a smart car2go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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