CPL inaugural match - #1 attended match for 2019?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On 2/15/2019 at 5:11 AM, 1996 said:

Wait a minute is that the Ray Hudson , you know Ray Hudson of Bein Sports fame listed as a goal scorer for the old Edmonton Brickmen of the old CSL? I followed the old CSL back in the day but was not aware Ray Hudson played for Edmonton Brickmen in the old CSL.

Looks like it was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hudson

Don't remember him as a Brickmen player either, but he's arguably higher profile now than he was back then. Justin Fashanu would have been the bigger name at the time when he arrived in 1989. Always wonder what would have happened with the CSL if the Blizzard had been able to sign Zico as they tried to at one point. Edinho was good, but didn't have anything like the same star power.

 

[Robert]

9 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like it was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hudson

Don't remember him as a Brickmen player either, but he's arguably higher profile now than he was back then. Justin Fashanu would have been the bigger name at the time when he arrived in 1989. Always wonder what would have happened with the CSL if the Blizzard had been able to sign Zico as they tried to at one point. Edinho was good, but didn't have anything like the same star power.

Stinson, Dan.The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. 19 Sep 1987: H3.

Vancouver 86ers' midfielder Jim Easton Jr. was voted to the first all-star team and Buzz Parsons was named general manager of the year in press balloting for the Canadian Soccer League's top on- and off-the-field personnel, announced Friday.

Easton, 22, the son of the Vancouver Whitecaps' first head coach, was the only 86ers' player voted to the all-star squad.

Parsons is a former Whitecaps' player who has just completed his first year as the 86ers' g.m.

Other players named to the all-star team include: Goalkeeper Sven Habermann (Calgary Kickers); defenders Greg Kern (Calgary), Paul James (Hamilton Steelers), Randy Ragan (Toronto Blizzard) and Diego Castello (Edmonton Brick Men); midfielders Zeljo Adzic (Hamilton) and Ray Hudson (Edmonton); forwards Nick Gilbert (Calgary), Ed McNally (Ottawa National Capital Pioneers) and Billy Domazetis (Hamilton).

The reserve all-star team includes goalkeeper Don Ferguson (Ottawa) and substitutes David Norman (Winnipeg Fury), Han Kim (Winnipeg) and Zoltan Meszaros (North York Rockets).

[nolando]

National Capital Pioneers must be the worst club name of the original league. (shudders)

[Robert]

6 hours ago, nolando said:

National Capital Pioneers must be the worst club name of the original league. (shudders)

I wonder if the club's unusual name contributed to its very short existence of one season. The Pioneers' owner, Earl Himes, sure seemed like an interesting character, judging by the following:

The owner in Ottawa is Earl Himes, who knows little of the grand old game. He has a head for business, however, and he quickly passed on Lansdowne Stadium and moved to a little park across the Quebec border in Aylmer. The town gave him 51 per cent of the park plus concession rights for the privilege of having a team in a national league.

Himes will learn all about soccer.

Earl McRae, Citizen sports columnist.The Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. 11 Sep 1986: E1.

Earl Himes doesn't look nuts or sound nuts and all indicators, until now, suggest he hasn't been nuts. He's 5l years old and runs his own business, Sports Graphics, in Vanier. It must be doing OK because Earl Himes has just bought a team in the new professional Canadian Soccer League which, if not nuts, does imply suicidal tendencies. Equally disturbing is that Earl Himes knows next to nothing about soccer; but this does not necessarily disqualify him from owning a sporting franchise. Harold Ballard, after all, owns the Toronto Maple Leafs.

"I'll admit I don't know much about the game," says Earl Himes. "It was just a couple of weeks ago I learned the offside rule. It's not like in hockey, you know. And I'm still not sure what those cards mean that the referee holds up. I think the yellow one is a penalty, isn't it? Or is that the red one?"

Naturally, the question must be asked: What in the name of almighty God possessed Earl Himes to spend $27,000 to land a franchise in a sport he knows from nothing, toss in a $l00,000 performance bond and agree to a $250,000 annual budget?

Bloodlines.

"My nine-year-old grandson Corey plays soccer," says Himes. "He just loves the game and I've gone out to watch him. It looks exciting as hell. Then I found out about 20,000 people from kids to adults are playing soccer in and around Ottawa, they have brothers and sisters and grandparents and aunts and uncles; the future looked promising as an investment."

For his sake, I wish Earl Himes luck.

For my sake, I hope I'm spared.

I do not understand a sport where a 2-0 score is considered a blowout; where a bonus clause for goals scored could earn a player enough to buy a pair of underwear at K Mart; where the goalie could leave the game, take in a movie downtown, return and not have been missed. I do think I know what that yellow card says. "Stop trying to score goals, you idiot, this is soccer."

I am not alone. In his book Travels In Hyper Reality the Italian essayist Umberto Eco recalls the time his father took him to a soccer match: "And one day, as I was observing with detachment the senseless movements down there on the field, I felt how the high noonday sun seemed to enfold men and things in a chilling light and how, before my eyes, a cosmic, meaningless performance was proceeding ... for the first time, I doubted the existence of God and decided that the world was a pointless fiction."

Or, as Liz Taylor also put it: "I prefer rugby to soccer. When soccer players start biting each other's ears off again, I'll like it better."

None of which deters Earl Himes.

"I'm in this to entertain the fans and make money and I will accomplish both."

Echoes of Phil Woosnam, ex-commissioner of the North American Soccer League which also once believed the colonials were ready for The World's Most Popular Sport. It spent a fortune on exotic holy persons only to find there were more seats than fans watching the exotic holy persons - the league flamed out last year in The World's Most Impressive Bankruptcy. Welcome to the boneyard of broken dreams: the National Lacrosse League, died at 2 - $6 million in losses. The World Football League, died at 2 - $30 million in losses. The United States Football League, died at 3 - losses still being counted.

So why should the Canadian Soccer League not fill the next plot?

Common sense, it says. It will not succumb on the funeral pyre of greed and bad management. While there is no limit on team capitalization (anywhere from $250,000 to $700,000), there is a limit on individual salaries ($25,000). "Otherwise," says Earl Himes, "a guy like Peter Pocklington, who owns the Edmonton franchise, could wipe me out with one paycheque."

Each of the initial eight clubs will be allowed two foreign players the first season, three the second. "Obviously," says Bill Gilhespy, interim league chairman, "they won't be major stars, but they will be talented players on top clubs who like to play soccer in the European off-season." Rule changes to enhance goal scoring? "No, but there will be a directive to play attacking soccer." An all-important television contract? "We are in negotiations; TSN is interested. We're hopeful, but each club is prepared to lose money the first few years. They had to agree to that possibility as part of acceptance."

Earl Himes agreed but doesn't plan for it to happen. "I need to sell 2,000 season tickets at $l00 each to break even and I'll do it the first year, l987," he says. "For that price, you get to take a child as well. I'm gonna market the hell out of my team. My firm'll put out posters, bumper stickers and educational brochures. We'll have give-aways, we'll have big ads in the paper, we'll have clinics at the schools, we'll have fan clubs. We'll allow no beer, just clean family entertainment. The interest is there, I know it'll work."

Even if he doesn't know soccer.

National Capital Pioneers seek new owners in effort to stay alive.

Lofaro, Tony.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. 8 Oct 1987: D3.

An as yet unformed ownership group is expected to take over Ottawa's pro soccer franchise which has been in limbo since the end of the regular season.

Kevan Pipe, executive director of the Canadian Soccer Association and Bill Thomson, coach of the National Capital Pioneers, are looking for prospective owners for the Ottawa franchise.

The Canadian Soccer League announced Wednesday it had assumed ownership of the National Capital Pioneers Sept. 4 from Earl Himes, an Ottawa businessman.

Pipe said the new ownership group will have to pay an initial $10,000 to secure the franchise rights to the team and also come up with an additional $65,000 in credit by the end of the year.

Contacted at his office Wednesday afternoon, Himes wouldn't comment on the new development.

"Mr. Himes has no association with the Ottawa franchise," said Dale Barnes, Canadian Soccer League commissioner. The league has operated the franchise since the change in ownership.

A lack of promotion and marketing certainly hurt the Pioneers, said Pipe.

"We know the fans are there, it is just a matter of cultivating them and doing some aggressive marketing."

Ottawa lawyer Pat Santini said Himes signed a legal document Sept. 4 which transferred the team back to the league. The league and the new owners are not responsible for any outstanding debts which may have occurred during the season, he said.

Declan McEvoy, executive director of Aydelu Inc. in Aylmer, confirmed there were unpaid debts left at the end of last season, but he would not say the amount owed. The Pioneers played its home games at Aydelu Park in Aylmer.

"I can tell you there will be definitely be a team in Ottawa next year and it will be a fresh new start," said Pipe.

He said the ownership group is still in the "embryonic stage" and will have to look at various options, especially whether the team should be run as a non-profit community operation.

Two of the more successful teams in the Canadian Soccer League, Vancouver and Winnipeg, are community-owned, Pipe said.

[Kent]

On 2/17/2019 at 3:37 PM, Robert said:

This of course is the big dilemma for the CanPL. Throughout the six-year existence of the CSL, the Winnipeg Fury proved to be one of the only solid franchises, in spite of starting with an all-amateur roster that included the following (based on the cover of a Fury program shown above):

Jeff Cambridge, Chris Harris, Joe Poplawski, Daniel Courtois, Han Kim, Neil Munro, Jim Zinko, Tony Nocita, Des Clarke,Alex Bustos, Chico Andrade, Paul Clarke, John Berti, Dave Knock and Mike Conway.

Recognize any names? Not exactly household names. To me resembles the rosters of most of this year's CanPL teams. Therefore, if you are going to launch an entire league comprised entirely of non-drawing-name players, then how do you expect to develop and improve these players without experienced professionals playing alongside and against them? 

 

A soccer player named Bustos playing in Winnipeg. I assume that's Marco's father?

[Bison44]

I think your assumption is correct....here is Marcos canada soccer personal bio. 

Marco Antonio Bustos... speaks English and Spanish... soccer family (father Alex, brother Michael and sister Melissa)... his father Alex was born in Santiago, CHI while his mother Rosa was born in Winnipeg, MB... his father Alex won a Challenge Trophy national title with Winnipeg Lucania (1987 in Winnipeg)... he was four years old when he started playing soccer at the Garden City Community Center...  enjoys movies, music, spending time with friends and family... favourites have included Lionel Messi, Ronaldinho, FC Barcelona...

[nolando]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Robert said:

Stinson, Dan.The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. 19 Sep 1987: H3.

Vancouver 86ers' midfielder Jim Easton Jr. was voted to the first all-star team and Buzz Parsons was named general manager of the year in press balloting for the Canadian Soccer League's top on- and off-the-field personnel, announced Friday.

Easton, 22, the son of the Vancouver Whitecaps' first head coach, was the only 86ers' player voted to the all-star squad.

Parsons is a former Whitecaps' player who has just completed his first year as the 86ers' g.m.

Other players named to the all-star team include: Goalkeeper Sven Habermann (Calgary Kickers); defenders Greg Kern (Calgary), Paul James (Hamilton Steelers), Randy Ragan (Toronto Blizzard) and Diego Castello (Edmonton Brick Men); midfielders Zeljo Adzic (Hamilton) and Ray Hudson (Edmonton); forwards Nick Gilbert (Calgary), Ed McNally (Ottawa National Capital Pioneers) and Billy Domazetis (Hamilton).

The reserve all-star team includes goalkeeper Don Ferguson (Ottawa) and substitutes David Norman (Winnipeg Fury), Han Kim (Winnipeg) and Zoltan Meszaros (North York Rockets).

Han Kim did very well for himself: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orangegroup.ca/single-post/2018/06/05/Introducing-Han-Kim%3f_amp_

 

[Robert]

4 hours ago, nolando said:

 

Han Kim did very well for himself: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orangegroup.ca/single-post/2018/06/05/Introducing-Han-Kim%3f_amp_

 

Mr. Kim also holds the distinction of being the first player in Canadian Soccer League history to register a hat-trick:

Kim turns his Fury on Blizzard:

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. 9 July 1987: C10.

Forward Han Kim scored three goals, the first three-goal performance in the Canadian Soccer League, to spark the Winnipeg Fury to a 4-1 triumph over the visiting Toronto Blizzard last night.

Kim connected in the 10th minute on a direct free kick annd followed with his second goal of the game six minutes later.

Teammate Paul Clark's goal made it 3-0 in the 22nd minute to close out the first-half scoring.

Luis Lufi broke the Fury shutout with his second goal of the season in the 55th minute and Kim then notched his third of the season in the last minute of the game.

[Macksam]

On 2/16/2019 at 7:04 PM, Robert said:

Thank you. That's most of them. Could you maybe spare another five minutes to help find the remaining 3 logos:

1) 1987 National Capital Pioneers (Ottawa)

2) 1987/88 Calgary Kickers (After all, they were the first Canadian champions!)

3) 1989 Calgary Strikers

4) Kitchener Kickers

 

            

          

          

 

Was Edmonton owned by the people who own The Brick furniture store? And was Calgary sponsored by Leon’s? Was this the dienette set derby or something? Da fuck....

[Rocket Robin]

The Brick for Edmonton and North York Rockets had Leon's as a sponsor.  I have the shirt.  

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

Was Edmonton owned by the people who own The Brick furniture store? And was Calgary sponsored by Leon’s? Was this the dienette set derby or something? Da fuck....

Calgary Kickers

Ownership: Businessmen Ron and Ralph Knipschild.

Edmonton Brick Men

Ownership: Businessman Peter Pocklington, who owns Edmonton Oilers, Edmonton Trappers AAA baseball team and former owner of Edmonton Drillers Soccer Club.

Pawn in Gretzky deal, Canucks say: 'we were used'

CHOW, WYNG.The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. 10 Aug 1988: A1

Roy Peterson, B2 A tearful farewell, C1

Edmonton Oilers' owner Peter Pocklington "used" the Vancouver Canucks to raise the ante in his attempts to trade hockey superstar Wayne Gretzky to the Los Angeles Kings, Canucks spokesman Arthur Griffiths said today.

"Quite frankly, we were used to get (Gretzky) what he wanted in L.A. and what Peter (Pocklington) wanted," Griffiths said, in disclosing that the Canucks negotiated for three months this year in a bid to obtain Gretzky.

"I can tell you we turned (Pocklington) down."

Contacted today in Edmonton, Pocklington dismissed Griffiths' version as "a bunch of horse----"

Said Pocklington: "We were not shopping Gretzky around. They (the Canucks) approached me. We had L.A.'s offer two to three years ago."

Pocklington said he turned down equal or better offers than the one he ultimately got for Gretzky as recently as a year ago.

According to Griffiths, the talks between the Canucks and Oilers collapsed June 14 - the day after the National Hockey League amateur draft - when Vancouver decided the price for Gretzky was too high.

Griffiths, assistant to the chairman of the Canucks and the team's representative on the NHL board of governors, told The Vancouver Sun the Canucks were first approached in March by Vancouver entrepreneur Nelson Skalbania, who was acting on behalf of Pocklington.

The Griffiths family, who own 51-per-cent controlling interest in the Canucks, then dealt directly with Pocklington, Griffiths said.

According to Griffiths, the proposal for Vancouver to obtain Gretzky included:

* Cash payment of $15 million US.

* Four first-round draft choices, including this year's pick.

* The Griffiths family selling, "at a discount," 25 per cent of its 51-per-cent shares in the team to Gretzky, making him a part owner.

* Giving up some of Gretzky's marketing rights.

* Promising Gretzky the head coaching job after his playing career ended.

Griffiths said the Canucks were prepared to pay the $15 million US, but decided the total price tag was unacceptable, especially after Pocklington demanded two of the Canucks' top players as well.

The decision to reject the Oilers' deal was made by the Griffiths family, including his father, chairman Frank Griffiths, and brother Frank Jr., Arthur Griffiths said.

"We were afraid of mortgaging the future (for short-term gain)," he said. "We were not concerned about the money. That we were prepared to commit."

Griffiths added there were other glitches. NHL president John Ziegler had "grave concerns" that by selling 25 per cent of the Canucks to Gretzky, it would make a player part-owner of an NHL franchise, he said.

In addition, Griffiths said, neither the B.C. Securities Commission nor the other Canucks shareholders would have endorsed the plan to sell Gretzky shares at a discount.

The Canucks then heard the price tag of $20 million bandied about, plus players, and the report that Gretzky did not really want to leave Edmonton, Griffiths said.

He added that Pocklington "was not up front" with the Edmonton fans about his intentions to trade Gretzky until after Gretzky's highly publicized wedding and after Pocklington received a sizable amount of season-ticket renewals for next season.

"If we (the Canucks) were interested, we wanted to do it before the June draft," Griffiths said. "We wanted to be honest with our fans."

He added: "I hope (Pocklington) slept well last night."

Pocklington disputes Griffiths' version of the negotiations over Gretzky.

The Oilers' owner said the Canucks' offers were relayed to him through Skalbania and that Vancouver offered $22 million Cdn for Gretzky, plus players and three or four first-round draft choices.

Pocklington said the draft choices "were fine," but added the three Canuck players being offered "won't make the Edmonton Oilers."

About a year ago, Pocklington added, he turned down Los Angeles' offer of young star forwards Jimmy Carson and Luc Robitaille, plus three first-round draft picks and "a lot of cash" for Gretzky.

Meanwhile, former Oiler Paul Coffey says his best friend Gretzky was "just a piece of meat" traded for hard cash by the Edmonton Oilers' management.

But Pocklington said he told Gretzky as late as 15 minutes before an Edmonton news conference he did not want to trade him to Los Angeles.

The Stanley Cup champion Oilers are the crown jewel in Pocklington's empire of sports teams and financial interests. He also owns the Edmonton Trappers of baseball's Pacific Coast League and the Edmonton Brick Men of the Canadian Soccer League.

Pocklington has used Gretzky's personal services contract as collateral for loans from the Alberta Treasury branches. Although the entrepeneur's financial condition was questioned at the Tuesday press conference announcing the Gretzky trade, Pocklington said there was nothing outstanding on his loans.

"It will allow me to buy another company or two," he said, refusing to say how much cash was involved in the Gretzky trade.

Kings' owner Bruce McNall said earlier he gave up more than $10 million US for the Gretzky package.

(Both opposition leaders in the Alberta legislature said Tuesday the government should have a say in the Gretzky deal if his personal services contract was sold to the Kings. New Democrat leader Ray Martin and Liberal leader Nick Taylor said Pocklington surrendered the right to deal arbitrarily with Gretzky's contracts when he pledged them as collateral to back the Treasury branch loans. Taylor said the province should review the deal and stop it if Pocklington's collateral for the loans has been jeopardized.)

Coffey, now with the Pittsburgh Penguins after contract disputes with the Oilers last year, insisted that Tuesday's trade was not Gretzky's idea.

"I think hockey was No. 1 with Wayne. There's no bloody way he wanted to go there (Los Angeles)," Coffey, an all-star defenceman, said.

"But they (management) got afraid of his wanting to test the free-agency waters. All you are is a piece of meat to them."

Coffey predicted Gretzy will still shine in Los Angeles. "He'll play unbelievable. He's so competitive."

However, Canucks team president Pat Quinn said he believes the Canucks will be a better team in the long run than Los Angeles, which gave up a Kings' ransom to get Gretzky.

The long-suffering Kings, who made the playoffs last April by finishing nine points ahead of Vancouver in Smythe Division standings, gave up gifted centre Jimmy Carson, 1988 first draft pick Martin Gelinas, more than $10 million US in cash and three of their next five first-round picks.

Defenceman Craig Redmond, the Kings' first-round pick in the 1984 entry draft, also was sent to Edmonton.

"Too often we look for the shortcuts and the shortcuts very seldom bring you the success," Quinn said. Quinn conceded that it is going to be tougher for the Canucks to make the playoffs in the Smythe Division.

"(L.A.) got the best player in the game and they got two other good players (Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski).

"What we have to hope is that, as Gretzky has said publicly, he's only going to play for three more years. L.A. will get that bump for a little while and be a better hockey club but what do they do after the three years are done?"

CSL avoids hype at championship

Saturday, September 19, 1987

KEVIN COX

While Canadian professional soccer supremacy is being decided tomorrow, Brenda Welsh, wife of the Calgary Kicker coach, will be selling souvenirs. Millie and Ralph Knipschild, mother and brother of the club's owner, will be hawking hotdogs.

Each winning player in the inaugural championship, either the Hamilton Steelers or Calgary Kickers, will receive a pewter mug and a touch of the trophy.

That's life in the Canadian Soccer League , where survival of the sport - something many observers are still willing to bet against - depends on shoestring budgets and hours of volunteer work.

It's a far cry from the glory days of the defunct North American Soccer League, where teams had million-dollar promotional budgets and the top players in the world.

Ron Knipschild, owner of the Kickers, says the first Canadian pro championship game is deliberately avoiding the hype that the NASL gave to its Soccer Bowl.

''There isn't the hoopla of the Soccer Bowl or the Stanley Cup or the Grey Cup," he said. ''But this is the first time for it and a lot of people didn't think the league would get this far."

Goalie Sven Habermann of the Kickers, who played for the Toronto Blizzard and Vancouver Whitecaps in the NASL, says he must be blocking balls for the love of the sport because it obviously isn't for the money.

''We don't make anywhere near what we did in the NASL, but that will come if this league is run properly," Habermann says, adding he is considering playing indoor soccer in the winter to supplement his income.

While the atmosphere at tiny Mewata Stadium in Calgary is cozy, Habermann doesn't agree completely with the totally volunteer operation.

''You have to have professionals to sell the game," he said. ''We have to improve things for the fans, so the woman with a 1-year-old baby has a place to change him at halftime. And there should be more than two washrooms."

CSL commissioner Dale Barnes says the eight-team league has defied its critics merely by surviving.

''We had people saying we would never kick off, then they said half the team would fold and we'd never finish the season," Barnes says. "We did all that and now we're going to have the final."

He said attendance was excellent in Vancouver, Winnipeg and Calgary, but disappointing in what is considered soccer hotbeds in North York, a Toronto suburb, and Hamilton, Ont.

''But in North York it rained for nine of their 10 games," he says.

He says the league will survive as long as it stays with ''modest operations and high ambitions.

''We have never intended to compete with the major sports teams because we just don't have the money to do that," he says. ''But for the young Canadian soccer player, we're giving them role models to follow and so they know there is a future for them in the game."

[Robert]

Brick Men sold for $1

Saturday, January 06, 1990

Edmonton millionaire Peter Pocklington has sold his money-losing soccer team, the Edmonton Brick Men, to Zeta Sports Inc., an Italian-based sports company, for $1. The company is owned by Maurizio Zecchin, a nephew of Joe Petrone of Edmonton, who will be club president. The deal is awaiting approval of the Canadian Soccer League's board of governors, which is to meet Jan. 19 in Victoria. The Brick Men have lost about $350,000 since their inaugural season in 1987.

[Robert]

Based on 1) the available statistics related to the CSL, 2) the history of the CFL, and 3) what we are currently witnessing with the CPL; is it reasonable to conclude that a professional Canadian sports league requires at the very least 7 participating clubs in order to be successful?

During its six-year existence, the CSL expanded from 8 to 9 to 10 to 11 clubs in its first four years, and then contracted to 8 and 6 clubs in the following two years, before the league folded at the conclusion of the 1992 season.

[longlugan]

What does any of this shit have to do with this specific thread? Start a new one or post it in an appropriate one. What the fuck is wrong with some people on here? Between you, BBTB and Philly Yawn Guy most of the threads in this forum are now unreadable. Have some decency ffs and respect the forum and those that come here.

[Robert]

If the above assertion is correct, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, than the CPL does not have the luxury of seeing a single club fold. Bearing in mind that losing money was, in every instance, the primary cause for CSL clubs folding, it would therefore provide an additional lifeline if every supporter were to go on at least one road trip per season to attend one away match, possibly against the nearest geographical rival. However, it would be useful to have a league schedule in order to plan such road trips well in advance.

[Kent]

7 hours ago, Robert said:

If the above assertion is correct, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, than the CPL does not have the luxury of seeing a single club fold.

Seems reasonable. I mean I'm sure none of us can think of any pro league in any sport that survived with 6 teams for 25 years before expanding and thriving.

So yes, my guess is that the inaugural game will be the most attended in year 1, but I don't mind being wrong.

[Robert]

7 hours ago, Kent said:

Seems reasonable. I mean I'm sure none of us can think of any pro league in any sport that survived with 6 teams for 25 years before expanding and thriving.

So yes, my guess is that the inaugural game will be the most attended in year 1, but I don't mind being wrong.

I also won't mind if you're wrong. Why would you want to see attendance figures go on a downhill-slide right after Game #1?

CSL attendance slip-sliding away:

Keating, Jack, The Province; Vancouver, B.C. 30 July 1992: B15.

Attendance is slipping in the Canadian Soccer League as the 1992 season hits the halfway mark.

"It's down 10 to 15 per cent in comparison to last year," spokesman Mehrdad Masoudi said Wednesday from CSL headquarters in Brampton, Ont.

Although official figures haven't been compiled, Masoudi said the CSL is averaging "around 2,000" per game so far. The CSL averaged 2,277 fans during the 1991 season.

Once again the Vancouver 86ers lead the CSL, averaging 4,287 for their first seven home games.

General manager/coach Bob Lenarduzzi says he's pleased with his team's attendance but he's concerned by the league's overall decline.

"There's not much as a club we can do in the other teams' markets. We can only look after our own back yard," said Lenarduzzi.

League attendance has fallen four times in the six-year history of the CSL and this could be the fifth, which is partially why Lenarduzzi said the 86ers are investigating the possibility of joining the American Professional Soccer League if the CSL folds.

LOFTY GOALS:

The number of goals scored is on the rise in the CSL and the newly introduced FIFA no-back-pass rule could be the reason.

Before the rule was introduced June 28, CSL games averaged 2.65 goals. Since then, the goal average has shot to 4.13 per game in 13 games.

SOCCER'S NHL:

With Domenic Mobilio now in the Netherlands to begin workouts with Vitesse Arnhem of the Dutch First Division, the 23-year-old Vancouver striker will face a totally different environment than he's used to with the 86ers in the comparitively low-key CSL.

"The game in Europe is played at a tremendous pace," said Canada's national teams administrator Les Wilson. "You're playing with a lot quicker players who are fast and they think a lot quicker. And they're very, very highly motivated because it's where all the glory and money is. It's like what the NHL is here."

Wilson, administrator of Canada's national soccer teams since 1984, has travelled the world through soccer. As a player he left Vancouver Collingwood Legion at 18 to become the only Canadian in history to play 10 years in the English League First Division (nine with Wolverhampston and one with Norwich City).

"When you look at the Canadians who have gone to Europe, they've usually made it as a defender or a midfield player rather than a striker. It's very, very difficult to break in as a striker."

Lenarduzzi said of Mobilio's arrival in Arnhem: "He's going in amongst seasoned professionals who are all making a living at the game and are probably going to look at someone coming over from Canada as a threat to their livelihood. It's not going to be easy, but I believe he has the ability and the temperament to do it."

There are seven Canadians currently playing top-flight soccer in Europe.

[Kent]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

I also won't mind if you're wrong. Why would you want to see attendance figures go on a downhill-slide right after Game #1?

I don't see it as necessarily being a downhill slide. It has the potential to be the biggest "event" game, in particular if there are no playoffs. If there ends up being a game that happens to be set up to decide the championship and is hosted by a team that has a stadium that is as big or bigger than Hamilton's, then that could also be a similar "event" game.

For example, if game 1 sells out, and every other game in the season sells out as well, but with Winnipeg and Hamilton having their "sell outs" be in just the lower bowl (inaugural game getting the upper bowl opened) then I don't think it would at all be a bad scenario.

Whether the inaugural game is the highest attended or not isn't sufficient information to determine the trajectory of the league. It's just an interesting factoid. My hope is that the attendance for year 1 is solid, but even if it isn't, I consider this year the bar setter, and I hope that next year it will improve. Although i realize a bigger year 2 is a tough ask. It took MLS something like 15 years to get back to year 1 average attendance numbers.

[Initial B]

On 2/20/2019 at 1:01 PM, Robert said:

If the above assertion is correct, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, than the CPL does not have the luxury of seeing a single club fold. Bearing in mind that losing money was, in every instance, the primary cause for CSL clubs folding, it would therefore provide an additional lifeline if every supporter were to go on at least one road trip per season to attend one away match, possibly against the nearest geographical rival. However, it would be useful to have a league schedule in order to plan such road trips well in advance.

Then we're fortunate this time around that the CPL has been up front with investors/owners/operators that they're going to be losing money at first. The question is - how long are they willing to lose money before they see a return on investment? I'm betting that we're going to get a decade out of this league, so long as total losses are in less than the $5 million range. reading some those articles you posted, it looks like the CSL owners weren't able to absorb six-figure losses,  let alone seven-figure losses.

[Robert]

47 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Then we're fortunate this time around that the CPL has been up front with investors/owners/operators that they're going to be losing money at first. The question is - how long are they willing to lose money before they see a return on investment? I'm betting that we're going to get a decade out of this league, so long as total losses are in less than the $5 million range. reading some those articles you posted, it looks like the CSL owners weren't able to absorb six-figure losses,  let alone seven-figure losses.

I think that an owner with the financial wherewithal of Peter Polklington could probably have held his own with the current ownership groups. All it is going to take for the CPL to find itself in a precarious position right out of the starting blocks is if one of the owners decides to bail after the first season. If that happens, will there be another investor(s) who is interested and ready to fill those shoes? Would there be another club ready to keep the CPL operating with 7 clubs? Would the League step in and finance such a club at this early stage? The club that I see as most vulnerable this year is HFX Wanderers FC. Being at a distance of 1,786 kilometers from its nearest rival, York9 FC, I don't think that the Halifax club needs to worry about having enough seats in the visitor section of Wanderers Grounds. If fans of the CPL are thinking strategically about making a roadtrip somewhere this year, they should consider going to Halifax, rather than to Tim Hortons Field for the inaugural match, as the match will have more than enough local fans to draw from. Besides, how many of this supposed "demographic shift towards people who are more likely to be interested in football" has ever been to Halifax?

The following article shines a light on many of the same pitfalls that still exist today.

Blizzard joining exodus:

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. 28 Oct 1992: C7.

Vancouver GM Bobby Lenarduzzi said, "We feel the APSL has much more financial stability than the CSL and the game has a better chance of long-term growth with the approaching 1994 World Cup in the U.S.

[Joe Parolini] added travel costs wouldn't amount to much more than the $65,000 the Blizzard spent in the CSL this past season.

The CSL, meanwhile, promises it will launch its seventh season without the Blizzard, Vancouver and whichever team decides to move, said a confident Tony Fontana, a CSL vice-president and owner of North York Rockets.

Toronto Blizzard is about to become the second Canadian team to desert the sinking Canadian Soccer League for greener pastures down south.

Three weeks ago, Vancouver 86ers joined the fledgling American Professional Soccer League that operated with only five teams last season and is hoping to kick off next season with at least nine clubs. The CSL had six teams.

They include league champion Colorado Foxes, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, San Francisco Bay Blackhawks, Los Angeles Salsa, Miami Freedom, Vancouver, Toronto and possibly the Montreal Supra.

The decision by Vancouver and the Blizzard to jump a Canadian ship and opt for an American league doesn't come as a surprise, but the two teams need to have their memories jogged.

As recently as a decade ago the North American Soccer League that fielded players of such as Pele, Franz Beckenbauer, Giorgio Chinaglia, Johann Cruyff and Peter Lorimer drowned in a sea of red ink.

Big names, indeed, and the fans came out in force. But poor management, huge salaries and flying from one end of the continent to the other finally killed the NASL.

What does the APSL have to offer that the CSL couldn't?

Vancouver GM Bobby Lenarduzzi said, "We feel the APSL has much more financial stability than the CSL and the game has a better chance of long-term growth with the approaching 1994 World Cup in the U.S.

"In addition, I think our fans will agree that the APSL has a high standard of play," he added, after Vancouver lost a two-game series to Colorado.

What about the Blizzard, who still haven't been paid for the 1992 season?

"The Blizzard has always paid its players, but this year we ran into some cash flow problems," said GM Joe Parolini. "But I have promised all the players they will be paid in full as soon as possible."

Teams applying to the APSL have to post a $100,000 bond and Parolini added that as manager, "It's my duty to come up with that cash and I will."

Travel costs to places like Colorado, Los Angeles and San Francisco will take its toll on a team that could only attract around 2,000 fans on a good night.

"Playing against better opposition will help and I believe Canadian fans come to watch teams that are associated with the Americans. Take the Blue Jays," said Parolini. "Canadians also love the NFL over the CFL."

Parolini added travel costs wouldn't amount to much more than the $65,000 the Blizzard spent in the CSL this past season.

The CSL, meanwhile, promises it will launch its seventh season without the Blizzard, Vancouver and whichever team decides to move, said a confident Tony Fontana, a CSL vice-president and owner of North York Rockets.

"We will continue as before and there is a chance we will have at least eight teams next season," said Fontana. "We also have applications from four American teams from just across the border who have applied to join the CSL."

The CSL was formed with the blessing of the Canadian Soccer Association six years ago after then national team head coach Tony Waiters encountered roadblocks in trying to get Canadian players based in the U.S. for World Cup preparations in Mexico in 1982.

So it's puzzling that the governing body of soccer in the country should allow teams from Canada to play in an American league when the CSL is still alive and kicking.

"We can use our legislative hammer to stop them, but we aren't going to do that," said Kevan Pipe, executive director of CSA, "because the teams will be playing in a league where the standard of play is a notch higher than the CSL.

"I don't think it will hurt Canadian soccer as only two imports are allowed on each team. Americans on Canadian teams will be considered imports and vice-versa."

Soccer in Canada has never made sense as it has lacked direction and this latest will prove it.

[Robert]

NOW & THEN

Thus far the CPL is running quite a ways behind the CSL, at least from an "official schedule release date" point of view. Back in 1987, the CSL schedule was announced by the mainstream media on March 4, 1987, which was 95 days prior to the June 7, 1987 openers. Considering today's date, February 22, 2019, it is just 64 days to go before the CPL is set to open up, and thus far the only game of the schedule that has officially been announced is the inaugural match on April 27, 2019, which is only 64 days from today. In other words the CSL is 31 days and counting ahead of the CPL.

Rough schedule for 86ers:

The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. 04 Mar 1987: E2.

Turn on search term navigation

Players on the Vancouver 86ers of the new Canadian Soccer League better get used to restaurant food if they hope to survive a mammoth road trip this summer.

After playing eight of its first 11 games at Swangard Stadium in June and July, Vancouver embarks on a three-week, seven-game sweep of every other city in the league.

The unorthodox 20-game schedule was designed to accommodate the 86ers who lose their home field during August while municipal crews re-seed the pitch at Swangard Stadium.

"With Vancouver unable to play at home in August and Toronto unable to play at home in July because of the World Youth (Soccer) Championships, it's something we have to live with in the first season," said Vancouver general manager Buzz Parsons. "Now that the schedule is in place we can get on with the job of filling the stadium and winning soccer games."

Vancouver opens its inaugural season at home June 7 against the Edmonton Brick Men.

[RickC]

Getting back to a discussion about the inaugural match, what choice would you make: likely have a (very boisterous) sellout crowd of THF's lowered capacity of 12k (or whatever the actual # it is); or, open up the full stadium even if you only sell 18k tickets and risk showing thousands of empty seats? Forge FC know their season seat numbers, we don't. We know there's a relatively large contingent of York 9 fans expected. We also know TFC is playing later that day. We're pumped about this, but the average local is still largely in the dark.

To answer my own question, as Forge sees the 12k number easily attainable, start opening up the lower half of the other sections. So, capacity would rise from 12k to about 18k. Then if demand continues strongly, open up the rest to get capacity of 24k. Now I don't know why I've posted this.

[Robert]

14 hours ago, RickC said:

Getting back to a discussion about the inaugural match, what choice would you make: likely have a (very boisterous) sellout crowd of THF's lowered capacity of 12k (or whatever the actual # it is); or, open up the full stadium even if you only sell 18k tickets and risk showing thousands of empty seats? Forge FC know their season seat numbers, we don't. We know there's a relatively large contingent of York 9 fans expected. We also know TFC is playing later that day. We're pumped about this, but the average local is still largely in the dark.

To answer my own question, as Forge sees the 12k number easily attainable, start opening up the lower half of the other sections. So, capacity would rise from 12k to about 18k. Then if demand continues strongly, open up the rest to get capacity of 24k. Now I don't know why I've posted this.

Personally, let people sit wherever they want to sit. Let them pay the price that's fits their budget. Let them be happy about what they paid to watch your product. Whatever you do, don't do what the Whitecaps do with hanging bed sheets from the BC Place rafters! That is absolutely phony and ridiculous. Making people pay lower bowl prices just to make the place look like it's full! What a load of crap. The few times I went there, the over-riding feeling I was left with was; "What a fake-atmosphere!" Fake grass! Fake announcers! Fake crowd! And phony-fucking players! Just a total puke-show experience. But hey, that's Vancouver for you. The best thing I ever did was to move to Victoria.

It all reminds me of my grandmother, back in Holland, who used to say the following to me every time I acted out: "Robbie, just be yourself, that weird enough.

[SthMelbRed]

^I haven't lived in Vancouver for about 15 years, but I have no doubt that nobody misses you.

[longlugan]

4 hours ago, Robert said:

Personally, let people sit wherever they want to sit. Let them pay the price that's fits their budget. Let them be happy about what they paid to watch your product. Whatever you do, don't do what the Whitecaps do with hanging bed sheets from the BC Place rafters! That is absolutely phony and ridiculous. Making people pay lower bowl prices just to make the place look like it's full! What a load of crap. The few times I went there, the over-riding feeling I was left with was; "What a fake-atmosphere!" Fake grass! Fake announcers! Fake crowd! And phony-fucking players! Just a total puke-show experience. But hey, that's Vancouver for you. The best thing I ever did was to move to Victoria.

It all reminds me of my grandmother, back in Holland, who used to say the following to me every time I acted out: "Robbie, just be yourself, that weird enough.

Poor Ted...I hope you don't live too close to him.