St. John's CPL

[top cheese]

Gossip that CPL representatives where in ST. John's yesterday to talk about a potential franchise

[shamrock]

33 minutes ago, top cheese said:

Gossip that CPL representatives where in ST. John's yesterday to talk about a potential franchise

Is that gossip you've heard or gossip you're starting?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

To be fair to the guy, it's not the first time a Nfld poster has posted something like this. They have a suitable stadium in place, so it would be more surprising if CanPL wasn't pursuing this.

[top cheese]

No I heard they were meeting yesterday. The EDGE/GROWLERS management group has shown interest in a franchise as early as the fall

There is a "stadium" in place might need some work to fit professional standards. Would be interesting to see if these would be a long term viable franchise with the current conditions in the province

[mpg_29]

6 minutes ago, top cheese said:

No I heard they were meeting yesterday. The EDGE/GROWLERS management group has shown interest in a franchise as early as the fall

There is a "stadium" in place might need some work to fit professional standards. Would be interesting to see if these would be a long term viable franchise with the current conditions in the province

Interesting...I would have figured that group would be too busy with launching a basketball team and a hockey team back-to-back that they would not be ready to pursue another pro sports team so soon... but they did express interest in CPL before the hockey team came about.

The turf is supposed to be replaced this fall/winter at KGV I believe. I thought KGV field would not meet the bar to be in CPL but looking at what is being used elsewhere ...I think It would meet the bar.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, top cheese said:

No I heard they were meeting yesterday. The EDGE/GROWLERS management group has shown interest in a franchise as early as the fall

Aren't the Edge and the Growlers under different ownership? I thought they were on unfriendly terms with the way the Edge owners lost a fight to have exclusive rights to use Mile One for hockey

[mpg_29]

55 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Aren't the Edge and the Growlers under different ownership? I thought they were on unfriendly terms with the way the Edge owners lost a fight to have exclusive rights to use Mile One for hockey

They went to arbitration and I believe it's some sort of joint ownership for the Growlers. My guess is the Edge ownership are not as heavily involved in the Growlers as they are with the Edge which makes me believe somewhat the rumours of them pursuing a CPL team... 

That being said the economics of the NBLC and CPL are so different I'm really curious if they do bother getting a team. For instance I believe the salary cap for NBLC this season is going to be $180,000 just to put it in perspective...

[top cheese]

the edge are owned by a sports company out of New Jersey. Part of the deal with the city was that they would have first shot at a hockey franchise for the city. Long story short another group locked up the echl team and in typical NL fashion a fight erupted over contracts and the team was almost lost until they decided to join together on the bid. Both teams operations are run by glen Stanford. I think his resume and reputation speaks for himself. I do believe he was in on the meeting as well.

The NBLC is a joke league really 

I find it tough for a CPL team to work in NL financially. 

[Cblake]

Does Moncton not have a stadium that could be used tomorrow?

[shamrock]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

Does Moncton not have a stadium that could be used tomorrow?

Yes although it's a bit much to ask from Newfoundland soccer fans to go there...

[coppercanuck]

It’s a bit much to ask ECHL teams to fly to Newfoundland. I live in a city with an ECHL team and the budgets do t appear to be that big.  Travel is always going to be an issue. I’m guessing sponsorship will come considering it’s  tier 1 soccer vs tier 3 hockey. 

I think the CPL’s structure, single table quad round robin, makes the budgets easier. Makes the expenses more stable. 

[mpg_29]

3 hours ago, coppercanuck said:

It’s a bit much to ask ECHL teams to fly to Newfoundland. I live in a city with an ECHL team and the budgets do t appear to be that big.  Travel is always going to be an issue. I’m guessing sponsorship will come considering it’s  tier 1 soccer vs tier 3 hockey. 

I think the CPL’s structure, single table quad round robin, makes the budgets easier. Makes the expenses more stable. 

I believe the ECHL team in St. John's will subsidize some of the travel costs for teams visiting just like the Icecaps did in the AHL...

CPL would be higher again than ECHL in terms of costs from what I gather. The ECHL salary cap works out to $340K which is still a lot lower than the projected CPL salary cap.

[Sébastien]

23 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

I believe the ECHL team in St. John's will subsidize some of the travel costs for teams visiting just like the Icecaps did in the AHL...

CPL would be higher again than ECHL in terms of costs from what I gather. The ECHL salary cap works out to $340K which is still a lot lower than the projected CPL salary cap.

The QMJHL also forced the then Fog Devils to subsidize the travel of visiting teams.

However, I have to assume that 14 flights to St. John's spread across 7 teams instead of the 30+ of a hockey season will make visiting team travel costs less of an impediment. The real problem would be the cost for St. John's to travel across the country 14 times of year. I would expect to such a team, at least at first, have lengthy road trips and long stretches at home, as is probably the case for any league St. John's participates in.

[Cblake]

8 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

The QMJHL also forced the then Fog Devils to subsidize the travel of visiting teams.

However, I have to assume that 14 flights to St. John's spread across 7 teams instead of the 30+ of a hockey season will make visiting team travel costs less of an impediment. The real problem would be the cost for St. John's to travel across the country 14 times of year. I would expect to such a team, at least at first, have lengthy road trips and long stretches at home, as is probably the case for any league St. John's participates in.

Is travel not going to be an issue for any team in the Atlantic region including Halifax?

[Sébastien]

45 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Is travel not going to be an issue for any team in the Atlantic region including Halifax?

Based on anecdotal evidence from friends who live on the Rock, costs of flying to and from Newfoundland is exponentially higher than Halifax (or Moncton, the only other legitimate Maritime option). Not sure how the price structure works for domestic flights, and sponsorship deals with airlines could come into play for the league.

When the Halifax Moosehead first joined the QMJHL, they had to also pay a portion of visiting teams' travel costs, but that was more because the whole league operated only by bus and Halifax was very isolated. That obligation disappeared when all the other Maritime teams joined the league in following years.

All that being said, travel cost is going to be an enormous issue for all teams in this league. York9, ForgeFC and Ottawa (hopefully?) will be less impacted, as I would expected every team to bus to their away games (like the Fury did for their Voyageurs Cup away match against TFC).

[top cheese]

All the professional sports teams in St. john's have had to subsidize travel for visiting teams because the cost of travel to and from the province is accessible high. That has usually resulted in a higher then league normal ticket price for NL teams. Halifax wont have that issue because airline costs into the city are lower.

The other thing to consider is that NL has a population of 45000 and decreasing substantially every year. The St. John's metro area has around 250,000 people which is considerably lower then the other franchises in CPL. The province is almost bankrupt, the cost of living is through the roof, and people don't have disposable income. To spend regularly on a projected 20-30 dollar per game ticket. Plus cooperate sponsorship opportunities would be limited based on two other sports teams and limited amounts of available corporate dollars because of the current economic climate.

The other thing to consider as well is that NL sports fans are fickle. Traditionally most teams enter with a lot of fan support but it tails off after a couple of years. There also demand to see locals play and prefer to cheer for there own. Every AHL team that was here people complained that there was no NLders on the team ( to which NHL teams Laughed). There's always people claiming there amateur teams are more entertaining the pro ( b/c they want to see fights). Take last years brier for instance, it was heavily supported bc of the Gushue rink, take them out and there's an empty rink. No doubt there will be cries again for local content on a CPL team but the reality is NL soccer has and never will produce anyone capable of playing professionally. Will NFLDers support a non NL team - probably not over the long run.

There is a stadium already in place that likely needs some significant work to it to meet the standards of the league.

I have my doubts if this would be a good investment for the league especially so early in its development.

[Obinna]

20 hours ago, Cblake said:

Does Moncton not have a stadium that could be used tomorrow?

Wow. 

[top cheese]

Moncton has a 30 000 seat stadium

[deschamp86]

1 hour ago, top cheese said:

Moncton has a 30 000 seat stadium

In New Brunswick

[LAK]

I don't think anyone is saying that the Moncton Stadium can be used for a Newfoundland club. I think the suggestion was let's put a club in Moncton instead, because it's way easier.

 

[deschamp86]

5 minutes ago, LAK said:

I don't think anyone is saying that the Moncton Stadium can be used for a Newfoundland club. I think the suggestion was let's put a club in Moncton instead, because it's way easier.

 

Should probably put that in the Moncton thread then because that would be way easier too [said in a joking way rather than being snide]

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The problem with Moncton is that it has a metro population of just under 150,000, which is below the 200,000 that appears to be the minimum viewed as acceptable and doesn't have the history of recent above-average interest in soccer that St John's does.

[mpg_29]

12 minutes ago, LAK said:

I don't think anyone is saying that the Moncton Stadium can be used for a Newfoundland club. I think the suggestion was let's put a club in Moncton instead, because it's way easier.

 

Moncton's metro population is about 150K, St. John's 220K. If St. John's is already on the fringe in terms of min acceptable size cities then Moncton doesn't make the cut bigger stadium or not.

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Moncton's metro population is about 150K, St. John's 220K. If St. John's is already on the fringe in terms of min acceptable size cities then Moncton doesn't make the cut bigger stadium or not.

Moncton has a track record for attendance in past soccer event. Also, serving as Halifax archenemy is really a no brainer here.

[Sébastien]

3 hours ago, top cheese said:

Moncton has a 30 000 seat stadium

It's actually a 10,000 seat stadium, easily expandable to about 20,000. However, improvements would be needed in terms of facilities for a professional team to call it home.

Being from the region, there is nothing I would love more than for Moncton to join the CPL. However, considering the low population and the non-existence of a soccer culture, I don't see it happening in the short or medium term.

If, after a decade, the league shows that it is stable, expanding and someone with deep pockets (Irvings, looking at you!) decides to give it a shot, maybe. But even then, I find it quite unlikely.

Even for the CFL, they had huge participation for the first game there, and it kept going lower and lower every subsequent time. The Moncton area draws well for one-off events where people from outside the city will make the drive for it, but I don't think it would be sustainable for 14+ matches per year.

 

***EDIT***

And to make it more relevant to the thread, conditional on an economic rebound in Newfoundland and Labrador, I would expect St. John's to get in before Moncton does.