The next cycle: A look at the CanMNT moving forward

[Vince193]

7 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I don't see a lot of DM's coming up do you?

The primary holding mids in our pool are likely to be Johnson, Teibert, Piette and Bekker.  In a 2 DM setup that's not terrible.  It's not as good as the Hutch and De Guzman pair we've had over the past decade but it's not bad.  

If TFC actually ever plays him, Mannella.

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I don't see a lot of DM's coming up do you?

The primary holding mids in our pool are likely to be Johnson, Teibert, Piette and Bekker.  In a 2 DM setup that's not terrible.  It's not as good as the Hutch and De Guzman pair we've had over the past decade but it's not bad.  

That's sort of my point. With such a shallow pool, we've got to use a formation that utilizes our best players, and DM won't be a great position for us next cycle unless someone else emerges (or Teibert or Piette surprises me by progressing significantly). 

As a formation itself, I like it

[Big_M]

Piette isn't even a sure starter in a 80 team 3rd level. He'd have to be one of the best to move up which he isn't. 

[Northvansteve]

15 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Same. I think we underestimate how much our poor CBs hurt us this time around. Since the CBs struggled, Hutchinson had to play deep, which meant our CMs had to choose between failing to properly supporting the attack or losing contact with our DM. It meant that clearing to the wings, route one to Larin, or extending the press past what was safe were the only attacking options.

 

Really important point. And I am concerned that we are not seeing any top calibre defenders emerging. 

[Vince193]

26 minutes ago, Northvansteve said:

Really important point. And I am concerned that we are not seeing any top calibre defenders emerging. 

That's true. Skylar Thomas is still in the USL, Gasparotto didn't make the jump with Rangers (but he is doing well with Falkirk) and James is good, but his club career isn't anything to shake a stick at. Montreal has guys like Giguere coming up but how good will he be in a few years? Jackson Farmer hasn't moved up in the Vancouver ranks. Our MLS guys aren't really emerging. At FB Chung and *maybe* someone like Charbonneau could emerge at RB with Adekgube at LB coming up. 

 

CB is the real question. How will Henry do at Horsens? He needs to get his career back on track and hopefully his rice krispie hamstrings will start to hold together. All the other options at the back for Canada are older. And don't get me started on Straith who is playing at a very poor level club wise.

[Soccerpro]

41 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

That's true. Skylar Thomas is still in the USL, Gasparotto didn't make the jump with Rangers (but he is doing well with Falkirk) and James is good, but his club career isn't anything to shake a stick at. Montreal has guys like Giguere coming up but how good will he be in a few years? Jackson Farmer hasn't moved up in the Vancouver ranks. Our MLS guys aren't really emerging. At FB Chung and *maybe* someone like Charbonneau could emerge at RB with Adekgube at LB coming up. 

 

CB is the real question. How will Henry do at Horsens? He needs to get his career back on track and hopefully his rice krispie hamstrings will start to hold together. All the other options at the back for Canada are older. And don't get me started on Straith who is playing at a very poor level club wise.

Defence at the youth national team level is quite unimpressive too, compared to our promising attackers.

Id argue CB and FB are currently our biggest needs in the men's program.

it doesn't help that our MLS teams are very reluctant to give young CBs a chance compared to other position players.

[Big_M]

Our defenders coming from mls clubs are mostly weak defensively and don't bring much offensively: Lefevre,Morgan,Ouimette...

Our nasl starting defenders are more solid and starting every week so more interesting currently. If Henry stops his blunders he can be an indisputable starter in Denmark. Hard to see Adekugbe getting time in the championship as he barely played in mls but maybe in league one.

[Stryker911]

The good thing is that defence can be taught or team defence can get things done. True we don't have any incredible defence prospects, but if given a choice I would take forward prospects and implement  a good system on defence.

[BearcatSA]

17 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Looking at our squad for 2020-22 is a fools errand. There are so many external factors that will be at play that any starting XI or 23 man roster will likely have 50% errors or more. Anyone in his early 20's or younger who has not broken in at an MLS level or higher is suspect.

Too many guys mentioned already in this thread and who are in their early 20s are big "IFs."  

If anyone has the time and inclination I'm sure that person could dig up a very similar thread from four years ago or even earlier so we can play, "Where are They Now?"   Case study one:  what's Jaime Peters up to nowadays?

[Free kick]

20 hours ago, shermanator said:

At least with Piette, we are seeing progress (albeit, slow progress) up the divisions in Spain. 2014-15 he was strictly starting with Coruna B. 2015-16 he was a sub at Ferrol, then starting with Coruna B. 2016-17 he appears to be a regular starter with Izarra (albeit I'm looking at a small sample size). This to me is key for our young players, rather than seeing them make a move like Doneil Henry to a league that they have no shot at making.

If there was disagree button, i would have used it.  Over the many moons that we have tracking Cdn players overseas i cant think of any that have moved up the ladders  in the fashion that you suggest.  I am sure someone will reply to with one or two examples.  Maybe a simeon jackson.  But by and large, once the system has ticketed you as second division player or third division player, thats what you are and where you will play.  Also Piette is 22yrs of age, he is not a prospect anymore.  Top flight clubs have many avenues to use in order to upgrade their talent (eg: their own academies, the transfer market, other first divisions from other countries,  free agents, Africa, south america...etc).  They dont need and dont bother looking at lower divisions.  

And the stats or prospects dont look any better if they play on team that gets promoted. Again, we have seen this many times where team get promoted and they dump 80% of their squad that got them promoted and buy up new players.  This happened to Peschisolido even though he was a very big contributor to getting his club promoted to the Prem.  One year, i actually went and looked at the numbers and counted amongst the gazillion transfers during the summer window and i found only two in that went from second flight to top flight. 

Unlike Piette, Henry is at least getting a shot to play at the highest level with and against world class players.  Piette wont.  Its far far easier to move down the laddar of professional clubs than it is to move up.  

Its a longest standing Voyageurs myths to look so favouably at a certain players because they end up at some second or lower division.  But if you believe that its top flight world class players that we need, then there is no reason to be applauding this kind if news. There are no world class players playing at these levels.  

 

PS.: The fact that many stars of game (who are at the tail end of their careers) would rather move to other first division like MLS, Japan, Qatar instead of a close to home second div side should also tell you something about the play and quality of second divisions in general. 

[jpg75]

As a 22 yr old destroyer-type DM Piette will have to demonstrate that he can consistently dominate the middle of the park at the 2B level to get the attention of any clubs in the higher levels of Spanish football.

[Vince193]

Piette hasn't shown he's improved at all since leaving Fortuna Dusseldorf. The dude went from debuting as an 18 year old in the 2. Bundesliga to 3rd division Spain. The fact he has 26 caps for Canada and has 2 appearances in top two division soccer, which came years ago isn't a good look for the NT. All his other appearances have been with B teams or third division sides.

[shermanator]

I think I've made it pretty clear that Piette needs to have his club situation improve in order to be considered for the starting 11 in the next cycle. In fact, if people read my first couple posts I've mentioned this in both my first two posts in the thread where I have said "I think Piette has to be in consideration for the starting DM role in the next cycle if his club situation improves." and "If he moves up to the Segunda Liga, I think it's a no brainer to put him in the starting 11."

Where Piette is playing right now won't cut it, I think we can agree on that point. But that also means he won't stay at the level where he is forever, either. To me it seems like many people here have already written him off already based on where he is at age 21, which is foolish. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

However, where Doneil Henry has been since signing with West Ham shouldn't cut it either. He's played 3 minutes in the Championship in the last 18 months. Yes, much of that time was lost due to injury, but training with a Premier League side during that time does not make up for the fact that he's not getting game action at a level higher than where he was with Toronto FC. Until he plays regularly somewhere and not get injured (which I really hope he can do with Horsens), there's nothing to make me believe that his career will continue on the trajectory we thought it would a few years ago.

[Obinna]

Injury has played a role in Henry not breaking through at West Ham. That's not the case with Piette and I think that's why people are writing him off. I am personally rooting for him, but i'm also genuinely concerned. 

Regarding Ricardo Ferreira, I must say he'd be a big pick up, but I wonder what our chances are? He's still only 23.