RUMOUR: Ottawa Fury to leave NASL?

[CDNFootballer]

8 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Is there still a chance that the Fury will stay in the NASL for the upcoming 2017 season?

There is a chance, maybe some info in the coming days as the NASL BOG meeting is taking place yesterday-tomorrow (Wednesday) in Atlanta.

[shermanator]

According to this article, the Fury have not contacted the CSA about moving to USL. They would need to get the CSA's blessing in order to do so.

http://the11.ca/if-ottawa-fury-was-to-move-to-usl-the-club-would-need-csas-blessing-and-no-application-has-been-made/

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

A couple of missing details are that the Fury's president is on the CSA exec and USL expect to be D2 rather than D3 in 2017. If the latter happens, there arguably would be no change in CSA policy involved and the bigger issue might be with Edmonton if the NASL has to drop to D3 because the USSF won't give them the waivers they need on D2 sanctioning standards, due to not having 12 teams spanning three continental US timezones.

[CDNFootballer]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

A couple of missing details are that the Fury's president is on the CSA exec and USL expect to be D2 rather than D3 in 2017. If the latter happens, there arguably would be no change in CSA policy involved and the bigger issue might be with Edmonton if the NASL has to drop to D3 because the USSF won't give them the waivers they need on D2 sanctioning standards, due to not having 12 teams spanning three continental US timezones.

Even if the Usl had gotten D2 sanctioning it wouldn't necessarily have translated into D2 sanctioning in Canada, CSA doesn't mirror the USSF as we've seen with their ban on freestanding D3 Usl teams in the past.

 

The USSF meeting in New York last Friday failed to give Usl the D2 sanctioning it was looking for. It doesn't meet quite a few of the standards for some of its teams and it looks like the status quo will remain for 2017.

 

[mianjo]

I was at the game on sunday, and chatted to 2 people with links to the Fury, one said definately USL next year the other said NASL or USL, but there would definately be a team next year.

[Gopherbashi]

It's going to make me sad if we don't have the Fury in the V-Cup next year.

[Kent]

55 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

It's going to make me sad if we don't have the Fury in the V-Cup next year.

I imagine if the Fury move to USL they would still be allowed by the CSA to enter the V-Cup. The restriction isn't against the league per se, but it's against multiple teams from the same club participating. For example, if L1O were brought into the Voyageurs Cup I am pretty certain all teams would be eligible with the exception of the TFC academy team.

On the other hand, if the Fury move to USL as a cost saving measure, and take it a step further and drop out of the Voyageurs Cup as well, then yes I'll be sad too. I want more teams in the tourney, not less.

[shermanator]

According to this article, it's expected that the Fury will soon announce they are moving to USL. All roster spots are up for grabs. The news is especially shitty for the local players who recently signed with the club (Edward, Tissot, Dixon)

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/local-sports/ottawa-fury-fc-getting-ready-to-change-leagues

With an announcement expected soon that Fury FC will jump ship from the NASL to the United Soccer League, coach Paul Dalglish will have some tough decisions to make. Who’s back and who’s not?

“We have one eye on next year,” said Dalglish. “All spots are up for grabs. We’ve got players who have been fantastic this year that we want to sit down and renegotiate deals with. We’re already having those conversations. Most of the guys are under option so it’s not a case of negotiating a new contract, it’s a case of deciding if we’ll take the option and informing the player we’re going to take the option.”

[CDNFootballer]

5 hours ago, shermanator said:

According to this article, it's expected that the Fury will soon announce they are moving to USL. All roster spots are up for grabs. The news is especially shitty for the local players who recently signed with the club (Edward, Tissot, Dixon)

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/local-sports/ottawa-fury-fc-getting-ready-to-change-leagues

 

 

 

Although its still up in the air whether they stay in NASL or move until the club makes an announcement if they did drop down to Mls's minor league the roster would be revamped at the lower Usl's payscale, majority of current players would be gone.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

That would all depend on whether they would be a standalone operation or have an MLS affliation. As far as I am aware there is no salary cap in USL and there are teams like Sacramento and Cincinnati with higher average attendances than any city in the NASL. Think the main difference is that there is less scope for adding imports to USL rosters, so if anything a move to USL would probably be good news for Canadian players currently on the Fury's roster.

[Pqhbv]

IIRC the USSF Div2 requirements stipulate a domestic player quota. Thus, if USL were to get D2 sanctioning from the USSF then it would be the same situation as the current NASL. The NASL and MLS have the same attitude towards Canadians: they do not count as internationals on Canadian teams. 

I don't see OFFC to USL as a viable option for cost savings except from travel and releasing the current squad and hiring lower-tier players.

I think the idea that the USL is just the NASL on a budget is overstated; several players currently on OFFC would likely not be on the team if it went to the USL.

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Pqhbv said:

IIRC the USSF Div2 requirements stipulate a domestic player quota. Thus, if USL were to get D2 sanctioning from the USSF then it would be the same situation as the current NASL. The NASL and MLS have the same attitude towards Canadians: they do not count as internationals on Canadian teams. 

I don't see OFFC to USL as a viable option for cost savings except from travel and releasing the current squad and hiring lower-tier players.

I think the idea that the USL is just the NASL on a budget is overstated; several players currently on OFFC would likely not be on the team if it went to the USL.

A lot of it could have to do with the value of the team.  If OSEG thinks that NASL is on its way out, that would kill the valuation of any NASL franchise.  Moving to USL (a far more stable league) could just be a way to keep their investment looking strong.

[Pqhbv]

I recall that before the flooding of their stadium Austin had annual losses of 2-2.5million. Heres a recent article talking about Charlotte losing about the same as OFFC for its second year straight. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2016/10/11/charlotte-independence-looking-for-mls-investors.html

"Now, this is optimism. The Charlotte Independence have hired a sports investment firm to assemble a Major League Soccer ownership group even as the minor league soccer franchise grapples with a second straight season of operating losses totalling $2 million."

It would seem, we may have over estimated the cost savings to be had in the USL... I hope OFFC is really taking a good look at all the numbers & variables to make the right decision. 

[Zem]

14 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

I recall that before the flooding of their stadium Austin had annual losses of 2-2.5million. Heres a recent article talking about Charlotte losing about the same as OFFC for its second year straight. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2016/10/11/charlotte-independence-looking-for-mls-investors.html

"Now, this is optimism. The Charlotte Independence have hired a sports investment firm to assemble a Major League Soccer ownership group even as the minor league soccer franchise grapples with a second straight season of operating losses totalling $2 million."

It would seem, we may have over estimated the cost savings to be had in the USL... I hope OFFC is really taking a good look at all the numbers & variables to make the right decision. 

I'm increasingly getting the impression that OSEG is looking for any way to make the Fury profitable, even if it means taking risks like these. I'm a bit concerned that even if the operating costs were slightly lower, all fans are going to clearly see that this is a step down the ladder. This is particularly true of casual fans, who might not realize the relative competitive proximity between the NASL and USL and many of whom also think that Ottawa could or will eventually move up to MLS. This move could completely turn off a lot of people and we could see substantially less gate revenue as a result. The other problem is that some players might decide to leave the club because they don't want to play at a lower level, although OSEG's cost-saving plan might include cutting the team's budget anyway so that it can spend less and still compete in the weaker league. That said, if OSEG is expecting the USL to receive D2 status this off-season that could be part of their reasoning.

On the bright side, Ottawa could become a major power in the USL if the club payroll doesn't drop too much, albeit in a league consisting mostly of reserve teams. I'm imagining OSEG figures that worst-case senario they won't be losing more money than they did in the NASL.

There's also the thought that there's a plan to take the opportunity to rename the club, something that John Pugh has commented on previously, saying that it was a mistake to keep the name because casual fans didn't realize or understand the change and still thought the Fury were a U23 amateur team. To be fair, as much as going with the fan poll was right in principle, the Fury name definitely falls into the category of "Corny North American sports team names that have nothing in particular to do with the places they represent" with the Montreal Maniac. I'd be cool with the club dropping the "Fury" moniker.

But whatever happens, I'll ultimately be able to bear it if the club ends up joining the CPL when it gets underway.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

11 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

A lot of it could have to do with the value of the team.  If OSEG thinks that NASL is on its way out, that would kill the valuation of any NASL franchise.  Moving to USL (a far more stable league) could just be a way to keep their investment looking strong.

The way to cut costs in a big way would be to do what the Rio Grande Valley FC Toros are doing with the Houston Dynamo and act as the host for an MLS reserve team with the MLS team (Montreal would be the obvious candidate) supplying the players and coaches. Given Paul Dalglish is in negotiations with players on the current roster for next year that clearly isn't happening and they have a standalone operation in mind, which need not necessarily be lower budget given the D2 and D3 thing doesn't really mean very much when it comes to playing standards and setting team budgets. Think the obvious explanation is that they think the USL are going to win the D2 sanctioning battle and want to wind up on the winning side of that. It would be interesting to find out if they are getting into USL without paying an expansion fee or with a heavily discounted one as part of a process of undermining the NASL. I suspect they might be.

[Gopherbashi]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The way to cut costs in a big way would be to do what the Rio Grande Valley FC Toros are doing with the Houston Dynamo and act as the host for an MLS reserve team with the MLS team (Montreal would be the obvious candidate) supplying the players and coaches. Given Paul Dalglish is in negotiations with players on the current roster for next year that clearly isn't happening and they have a standalone operation in mind, which need not necessarily be lower budget given the D2 and D3 thing doesn't really mean very much when it comes to playing standards and setting team budgets. Think the obvious explanation is that they think the USL are going to win the D2 sanctioning battle and want to wind up on the winning side of that. It would be interesting to find out if they are getting into USL without paying an expansion fee or with a heavily discounted one as part of a process of undermining the NASL. I suspect they might be.

Depends on what kind of exit fee they're looking at from NASL as well.

[maccaliam]

15 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The way to cut costs in a big way would be to do what the Rio Grande Valley FC Toros are doing with the Houston Dynamo and act as the host for an MLS reserve team with the MLS team (Montreal would be the obvious candidate) supplying the players and coaches. Given Paul Dalglish is in negotiations with players on the current roster for next year that clearly isn't happening and they have a standalone operation in mind, which need not necessarily be lower budget given the D2 and D3 thing doesn't really mean very much when it comes to playing standards and setting team budgets. Think the obvious explanation is that they think the USL are going to win the D2 sanctioning battle and want to wind up on the winning side of that. It would be interesting to find out if they are getting into USL without paying an expansion fee or with a heavily discounted one as part of a process of undermining the NASL. I suspect they might be.

While I still don't see why this would be obviously what is happening, I guess you did say you "think" this is what's happening, so fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

[mianjo]

USL should divide into 2 leagues 1. for the 8/9 independants +Fury and TB and any others who want to join and div 2 for the 21 MLS reserve teams

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Then how would it differ from the NASL? Until recently I thought that tensions related to that would probably lead to a small number of standalone franchises leaving the USL and switching over to the NASL, but the drift definitely seems to be in the other direction at the moment, which will probably send the NASL into a death spiral. I guess as long as the standalone teams tend to do better on the field of play than the reserve teams and their fans are happy to show up to watch them beat a team called TFC II then the benefits that the reserve teams provide in terms of league stability and shorter travel distances outweigh any disadvantages.

[JamboAl]

Another scary sign for the NASL were attendances at last night's games.  Carolina did ok with 3,308 but scarily, Jacksonville only had 1,254 and might as well be dead Ft Lauderdale was 418 for the visit of FC Edmonton.  The Fury may be worried that they would have to subsidize a bunch of team's operations next season.

[deschamp86]

9 hours ago, mianjo said:

USL should divide into 2 leagues 1. for the 8/9 independants +Fury and TB and any others who want to join and div 2 for the 21 MLS reserve teams

I'd like to see USL split into two tiers as well, but would rather see promotion relegation between the two

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Another scary sign for the NASL were attendances at last night's games.  Carolina did ok with 3,308 but scarily, Jacksonville only had 1,254 and might as well be dead Ft Lauderdale was 418 for the visit of FC Edmonton.  The Fury may be worried that they would have to subsidize a bunch of team's operations next season.

That may have been par for the course in paid attendance terms for weeknight games for a long time, unfortunately. Owners of pro soccer teams in North America tend to only start announcing honest attendance numbers shortly before folding their teams, because it makes it obvious why they are about to pull the plug. There do seem to have been some genuine success stories in terms of fan interest for the NASL, but not enough for a stable league when MLS is slowly taking away many of the best markets.

[Kent]

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Another scary sign for the NASL were attendances at last night's games.  Carolina did ok with 3,308 but scarily, Jacksonville only had 1,254 and might as well be dead Ft Lauderdale was 418 for the visit of FC Edmonton.  The Fury may be worried that they would have to subsidize a bunch of team's operations next season.

Can't help but notice it's the Florida teams that you are saying struggled. Are things back to normal after hurricane Matthew yet, or could that have had an impact on attendance?

 

Edit: I guess my point is that a single bad night isn't what is important. If these kinds of numbers are trends, then that is more relevant.

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Can't help but notice it's the Florida teams that you are saying struggled. Are things back to normal after hurricane Matthew yet, or could that have had an impact on attendance?

 

Edit: I guess my point is that a single bad night isn't what is important. If these kinds of numbers are trends, then that is more relevant.

Hurricane Matthew wouldn't have helped but Ft Lauderdale is terminal now (and has been for a while of barely 1,000 average crowds) and Jacksonville is very disappointing after a very bright start attendance wise.  I guess my point is that as a business model, the NASL is slowly dying. 

[Pqhbv]

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Hurricane Matthew wouldn't have helped but Ft Lauderdale is terminal now (and has been for a while of barely 1,000 average crowds) and Jacksonville is very disappointing after a very bright start attendance wise.  I guess my point is that as a business model, the NASL is slowly dying. 

I think Jacksonville's attendance has been relatively stable. The first year they had a debut game in a different venue with 15k+ that skewed their year end average. Additionally, almost all expansion teams see a slight drop in attendance for year two. 

FTL is a different animal.