Canadian Premier League

[zen]

2 minutes ago, ted said:

^ Woaw, that's huge news.

Yeah for 2 reasons, both that the CPL is likely happening, but also that if USL doesn't agree to those terms then Ottawa is screwed. I hope the USL does approve.

[lazlo_80]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

Yeah for 2 reasons, both that the CPL is likely happening, but also that if USL doesn't agree to those terms then Ottawa is screwed. I hope the USL does approve.

again, don't take this as hard, cold facts but he said he doubts Ottawa would've made the announcement and USL would've been cool with the announcement if this deal wasn't already in place.

[Complete Homer]

I mean, it would suck, but I'm pretty sure the fanbase reaction to dropping to PDL or something for one season purely as a holdover for CPL wouldn't be nearly as bad as ceasing operation for a year. That being said, I doubt they would sever ties with NASL without USL knowing the whole deal

[shermanator]

Ugh, what a fucking gong show regarding Ottawa. Just think back to how good their situation was 12 months ago.

[Complete Homer]

I read some speculation that the NASL wants to launch a development league (I mean...really? Teams struggling to stay afloat but whatever) and that was the last straw for Ottawa, as they didn't want to pay into anything that they were planning on abandoning, so jumping to the USL to avoid something like that adds to the cost-savings argument, even if it is for one year

We'll see what happens, but the whole "Waive fees and obligations for anyone leaving NASL" seems like the likely angle from the USL point of view. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

again, don't take this as hard, cold facts but he said he doubts Ottawa would've made the announcement and USL would've been cool with the announcement if this deal wasn't already in place.

...so it's meaningless posturing, if CPL doesn't materialize and presumably the Fury would have simply hung in there with the NASL for another year, if they thought that CPL was going to happen and/or was something that was worth being involved in.

[lazlo_80]

Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...so it's meaningless posturing, if CPL doesn't materialize and presumably the Fury would have simply hung in there with the NASL for another year, if they thought that CPL was going to happen and/or was something that was worth being involved in.

If you're referring to the USL already being cool with it, it wouldn't be posturing so much as an inference.

But the first part...about the CSA ensuring their move comes with a "you leave when the CPL is created" clause certainly seems like fact..

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

...But the first part...about the CSA ensuring their move comes with a "you leave when the CPL is created" clause certainly seems like fact..

Doesn't fit John Pugh's quote in the Ottawa Sun. Free to leave if CPL created would fit.

[lazlo_80]

Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Doesn't fit John Pugh's quote in the Ottawa Sun. Free to leave if CPL created would fit.

Cool, man.

I'm not going to force you to believe something. 

[Complete Homer]

23 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...so it's meaningless posturing, if CPL doesn't materialize and presumably the Fury would have simply hung in there with the NASL for another year, if they thought that CPL was going to happen and/or was something that was worth being involved in.

I really don't understand how you can possibly come to the conclusion that this is meaningless posturing. 

Ottawa wanted to cut costs by leaving a league they have to fly to every game and compete against franchises spending well beyond their means (and may or may not be launching a whole additional development league that Ottawa wouldn't want to pay for https://www.reddit.com/r/NASLSoccer/comments/59tozx/nasl_creating_development_league/). USL does that for them. They also want to join a league that allows them to pay in Canadian dollars, may cut travel costs further, and is a better sell than playing TFC II and Rochester. CPL does that, but it isn't here yet, so if they want to cut costs they have to go to USL first. Combine that with the USL's drive to kill NASL asap, waiving fees and the 3 year obligation could suit them nicely, as they aren't hurting for clubs at all, the situation fits perfectly with what we would expect to see

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Cool, man.

I'm not going to force you to believe something. 

This was Pugh's quote:

“There still exists a goal, which has been stated by the Canadian Soccer Association, which is to have a national league in the near future,” said Pugh. “At the moment, there is no high-level Canadian professional league. If one was established and it was good for our fans and our franchise, we would look at it. Right now, it’s impossible to say.”

In other words they would consider joining but not commited to doing so.

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

This was Pugh's quote:

“There still exists a goal, which has been stated by the Canadian Soccer Association, which is to have a national league in the near future,” said Pugh. “At the moment, there is no high-level Canadian professional league. If one was established and it was good for our fans and our franchise, we would look at it. Right now, it’s impossible to say.”

In other words they would consider joining but not commited to doing so.

I was aware of the quote you were referring to. I can repost the tweet from Duane as well but there's no point. You don't think Duane's a very credible source and that's your prerogative. Thats all I was getting at.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

How does this contradict Pugh's quote?

The CSA will not approve the Fury application to move to USL unless the USL waives the 3 year requirement & allows move to CanPL when ready.

There is nothing in that which suggests the Fury have to move. It only implies that they must have the ability to move, should they choose to.  

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

How does this contradict Pugh's quote?

The CSA will not approve the Fury application to move to USL unless the USL waives the 3 year requirement & allows move to CanPL when ready.

There is nothing in that which suggests the Fury have to move. It only implies that they must have the ability to move, should they choose to.  

Okay. You win.

[shermanator]

To be fair, some of us who believe the CPL will actually happen do not consider Duane Rollins a very credible source (myself being one of them).

When the CSA president is openly talking about the CPL, and people like Dino Rossi are saying the league plan is being worked on, it gives Rollins' comments more credibility.

[TRM]

9 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

I was aware of the quote you were referring to. I can repost the tweet from Duane as well but there's no point. You don't think Duane's a very credible source and that's your prerogative. Thats all I was getting at.

Pugh is part of the Ottawa team's management group. What he says carries a lot more weight than what Rollins says. This, like all of DR's reporting, will have to be viewed for what it is, second hand rumors and his interpretation of what he was told or heard. 

If/when the CPL becomes reality then the negotiations begin. 

 

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...so it's meaningless posturing, if CPL doesn't materialize and presumably the Fury would have simply hung in there with the NASL for another year, if they thought that CPL was going to happen and/or was something that was worth being involved in.

Hard to say, I think the Fury are starting to feel like the NASL is a sinking ship and wanted to get off it sooner rather then later.

I mean, there's doubts the NASL is even going to make it to 2017 now that Tampa is gone, Minnesota is gone, I don't see even with new investors Ft. Lauderdale turning things around, OKC is a bizarre situation, Peutro Rico is a giant travel ball and chain and rumblings are coming out of Carolina and Miami. I'm to understand that Fath is losing his patience with attendance and it's no stretch of the imagination to see Indy get poached.

This may be a case that the USL is more concerned with the court case with the NASL and USSF and wants the NASL's legal and sanctioning position weakened as well, so they don't really care if the Fury stay for a single season. So long as they don't go back to the NASL and, if it is a short stay they can save face by saying "Gosh darn, it was those dang CSA guys that didn't let us keep our clearly strict professional franchising rules."

That said, there are only a couple conclusions to draw from Pugh's reaction. Either Pugh isn't getting told info from his higher ups if the Fury are jumping ship to the CanPL (or just speculating might even be sold to another ownership group), that he's keeping his cards close to his chest regarding the CanPL (like everyone who is reported to be involved), or the Fury may genuinely be in the dark regarding the CanPL and are waiting on details.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Pugh is on the CSA board and I am almost 100% certain is a part owner in OSEG rather than an employee. Saw him being presented as one of the owners of the CFL team on a youtube clip recently wearing one of their jerseys. I suspect he is very much in the loop on everything that is happening.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/board-of-directors-s15104

http://canadasoccer.com/index.php?t=profile&pid=4626

For Sport

owner of Ottawa Fury FC... has served on the Canadian Soccer Association’s Board of Directors..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hunt

On March 25, 2008, Hunt (along with partners Roger Greenberg, John Ruddy, William Shenkman and John Pugh) was awarded an expansion franchise. The team is expected to play at Frank Clair Stadium if the stadium can be remodeled and had been conditionally awarded the right to host the 2014 Grey Cup game.[6] A Can $7 million fee was reported to have been paid.[7] After originally being announced to begin play in 2010, its start date was pushed back to 2012,[8] then 2013[9] and now 2014 or 2015, effectively placing the franchise firmly in development hell.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, shermanator said:

Ugh, what a fucking gong show regarding Ottawa. Just think back to how good their situation was 12 months ago.

as much as it's true, if it is CPL long term I'm willing to bet it'll be good for the club.  No one gives a fuck about jacksonville etc.

Hopefully the news comes out soon and the hardcore fans will have that to hang their hat on as they continue to promote the team.

[Zem]

16 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Pugh is on the CSA board and I am almost 100% certain is a part owner in OSEG rather than an employee. Saw him being presented as one of the owners of the CFL team on a youtube clip recently wearing one of their jerseys. I suspect he is very much in the loop on everything that is happening.

 

26 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

That said, there are only a couple conclusions to draw from Pugh's reaction. Either Pugh isn't getting told info from his higher ups if the Fury are jumping ship to the CanPL (or just speculating might even be sold to another ownership group), that he's keeping his cards close to his chest regarding the CanPL (like everyone who is reported to be involved), or the Fury may genuinely be in the dark regarding the CanPL and are waiting on details.

Yes he is a one of the five OSEG stakeholders (albeit one of the smaller ones), as well as the Fury's club President. He was formerly the full owner of the team before OSEG was created. He is essentially the utmost authority on all things Fury although business decisions are obviously not his alone.

It's possible John Pugh might personally want to join the CPL, but he also has four partners who aren't football people and might not share his vision, so who knows.

[lazlo_80]

1 hour ago, TRM said:

Pugh is part of the Ottawa team's management group. What he says carries a lot more weight than what Rollins says. This, like all of DR's reporting, will have to be viewed for what it is, second hand rumors and his interpretation of what he was told or heard. 

If/when the CPL becomes reality then the negotiations begin. 

 

Again, I didn't intend to turn this into a referendum on Duane Rollins' credibility. I think between Pugh and Rollins you could spin this to fit whatever narrative you choose to believe. Seriously, this could be a sign that Ottawa is joining a CPL that is on pace to start ASAP or a sign of nothing at all depending on how you choose to put together the esoteric puzzle pieces of information we've received so far.

I think it's fair to consider what Rollins said as "news" in the context of this thread. If you choose not to believe it, again, you're more then welcome to. IMO opinion I think to suggest what he reports as "second hand rumors and his interpretation" as harsh...but I would never try to sway you from feeling that way if that's how you choose to.

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

 No one gives a fuck about jacksonville...

This needs restating.

[Gordon]

1 hour ago, TRM said:

Pugh is part of the Ottawa team's management group. What he says carries a lot more weight than what Rollins says. This, like all of DR's reporting, will have to be viewed for what it is, second hand rumors and his interpretation of what he was told or heard. 

If/when the CPL becomes reality then the negotiations begin. 

 

In other words, Rollins reporting is...reporting? I'll be honest, when it comes to opinion I've rarely agreed with Rollins but there is absolutely no evidence I've encountered to suggest he is ignores basic integrity standards when reporting what he has heard and he usually makes it a point to be clear when he is speculating.

 

[Dub Narcotic]

Actually, Rollins regularly reports things without confirmation from a second source, which is not standard practice. The CSA could easily start releasing news themselves about this sort of stuff instead of conducting a proxy war through reporters. Montagliani has not covered himself in glory around this issue.

[Complete Homer]

30 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Pugh is on the CSA board and I am almost 100% certain is a part owner in OSEG rather than an employee. Saw him being presented as one of the owners of the CFL team on a youtube clip recently wearing one of their jerseys. I suspect he is very much in the loop on everything that is happening.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/board-of-directors-s15104

http://canadasoccer.com/index.php?t=profile&pid=4626

For Sport

owner of Ottawa Fury FC... has served on the Canadian Soccer Association’s Board of Directors..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hunt

On March 25, 2008, Hunt (along with partners Roger Greenberg, John Ruddy, William Shenkman and John Pugh) was awarded an expansion franchise. The team is expected to play at Frank Clair Stadium if the stadium can be remodeled and had been conditionally awarded the right to host the 2014 Grey Cup game.[6] A Can $7 million fee was reported to have been paid.[7] After originally being announced to begin play in 2010, its start date was pushed back to 2012,[8] then 2013[9] and now 2014 or 2015, effectively placing the franchise firmly in development hell.

I don't think anyone here is questioning Pugh's word. It is obvious that he carries a ton of legitimacy. But let's look at Pugh's comments again

There still exists a goal, which has been stated by the Canadian Soccer Association, which is to have a national league in the near future,” said Pugh. “At the moment, there is no high-level Canadian professional league. If one was established and it was good for our fans and our franchise, we would look at it. Right now, it’s impossible to say

He says that there is a plan for CPL to come about in the near future, and when it does come around, they will take a look at it. The simplest reading of that would be to say they would wait a couple seasons into CPL to decide whether or not to join, but in the wider context that this is their announcement for joining USL, I  think the statement is as close to saying they are interested in CPL as could be reasonable to say the day you join a different league. Whether or not they are a launch team remains to be seen (Rollins thinks they are based on what he's been told), but considering the CSA and Fury have apparently been talking about this for a while, I would seriously doubt any of this is out of step with the plan they have put forth.

32 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Again, I didn't intend to turn this into a referendum on Duane Rollins' credibility. I think between Pugh and Rollins you could spin this to fit whatever narrative you choose to believe. Seriously, this could be a sign that Ottawa is joining a CPL that is on pace to start ASAP or a sign of nothing at all depending on how you choose to put together the esoteric puzzle pieces of information we've received so far.

I think it's fair to consider what Rollins said as "news" in the context of this thread. If you choose not to believe it, again, you're more then welcome to. IMO opinion I think to suggest what he reports as "second hand rumors and his interpretation" as harsh...but I would never try to sway you from feeling that way if that's how you choose to.

I agree we ought to not turn this all into a debate on Rollins, but really, if/when this gets going, I'd really like to see some of his detractors tell him "good job" and even apologize. He's taken a lot of flak that amounts to much more than healthy skepticism from some people.