ted Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 For a couple of years now I have been reading cryptic hints of a new league for British Columbia like the L1O. Hints like this one published the other day: In fact, the CSA plans to use the opportunity to clarify its position to all three MLS sides. After 2015, it will no longer sanction PDL teams attached to MLS sides if there is a Canadian league of an equal level available to play in. Currently, both Ontario and Quebec have such a league. There is a significant amount of effort being put behind starting a BC league soon. Temporary solution possible in TFC PDL request by Duanne Rollins, 24th Minute. With Vancouver Whitecaps having moved firmly into the USL Pro and Victoria showing no interest in a provincial league I have to wonder what sort of league are we looking at? What would be the point? Why would it be anything more than the D4 level we already have with PDL and PCSL teams alongside the three University programs at UBC, SFU and UVic? Not saying we could not use a vibrant D4 (as I have vehemantly argued before) but do we need something totally new or could we reform and reorganize the PCSL? Any links to actually news items would be most appreciated. Heck, anything overheard in hallways or hinted at through the "old boys network" would be of interest. Anything beyond Duane's maddening teasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 First Vice President Kjeld Brodsgaard and Pro Director Dino Asatopoulos have visited Kambiz Ebadi of PLSQ and I'm sure that they were at the L1O presser that Rocket Robin was at and that they've talked to people at L1O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Robin Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not sure who they were but it was mentioned early at the press conference that guys from an org in British Columbia were there. I expected to pad my notes by playing back the Livestream but I didn't realize the first half of the 16 minutes either wasn't saved or there were tech troubles. The Livestream starts with Benito Floro introducing the teams in the men's division, then a video recording of John Herdman was played, then intro of the women's teams and then 'thanks, goodbye'. The Two Solitudes audio podcast has the two introduced at the 3 minute mark but chair Dino Rossi doesn't mention them by name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmd Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It's time the CSA steps in and we get our own DII. why should we care what goes on in the US. We have enough teams in Ontario and Quebec and BC. Add FC Edmonton and the Ottaway Fury. And the CSA should stop ALL teams below MLS to play in any USSF sanctioned leagues. We need to develop our own. The MLS, NASL and USL do NOT care about Canadian players. CSA should also talk to the CFL and see if there is any potential to work together, maybe help in cost reduction, similare to the NASL and CFL were supposedly discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 We have enough teams in Ontario and Quebec and BC. Add FC Edmonton and the Ottaway Fury. Do we? Do we have enough clubs with access to 5,000 seat stadiums, large enough population bases, and owners willing to lose between $5-$10 Million each over the first 5 years of a new league? That has been the problem for years and the reason that ALL profesional clubs now operating in Canada have joined American leagues rather than trying to start a new Canadian league. I actually think it could be done and have been saying so for more than a decade and a half on this board and it's precursors. The only problem is you need a group of investors willing to lose the equivalent of one MLS franchise fee with no guarantee of ever seeing a dime of the money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 And now the CSA has been forced to admit that their so-called third divison in Ontario is of lesser competitive quality than the PDL: According to a source with knowledge of the negotiations, the CSA is on the side of the “no PDL” group. However, it is willing to sanction PDL teams in cases where there is no equivalent level of domestic competition for Canadian teams to compete in, or if the sanctioning was granted before the creation of the domestic league. full article>> So tell me how is a new D3 in BC going to be of higher quality than the PDL? I hope to God the suits have a real plan to build a real D3 league and not simply another PCSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 There's a difference between "lesser competitive quality" and "no equivalent level"; PDL is a development league. That said, TFC Academy winning L1O by a fair margin and having a guy lead the circuit in scoring by ten goals is a bad sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 The CSA has now admitted that L1O is not an "equivalent level" to the PDL. That means that they believe D3<D4. One league is of a "lesser competitive quality" and it is clearly not the amateur fourth division. The CSA need to start addressing this issue and outlining how they are going to improve competive quality of their D3 so that it is ABOVE (screw equivalent to) the PDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 The CSA has now admitted that L1O is not an "equivalent level" to the PDL. That means that they believe D3<D4. One league is of a "lesser competitive quality" and it is clearly not the amateur fourth division. The CSA need to start addressing this issue and outlining how they are going to improve competive quality of their D3 so that it is ABOVE (screw equivalent to) the PDL. Any links to that info/quote? Hard to ever get any info from the CSA as they hardly ever release concrete plans and info from their meetings or any relevant news at all. L1O's standards will likely be what a BC league follows as well, the first 2 years were pretty light on player budjets for them I think and were'nt going to even be enforced for those years if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Possible teams for a D3 L1O Style BC League : Victoria - Rap Stadium.........................3800 capacity Richmond - Minoru Park Stadium....... 2000 Vancouver/Burnaby - Swanguard.......5000 Kelowna - Apple Bowl...........................2300 Coquitlam - Perry Percy Stadium.........1482 Langley - McCloud Athletic Park...........2200 Abbotsford - Bateman Park.................1000 Kamloops - Hilside Stadium..................1000 Chilliwack - Exhibition Stadium.............2500 Nanaimo - Caledonia Park......................700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Richmond - Minoru Park Stadium....... 2000 What, really? (The real capacity is still high enough for third-div semi-pro but it ain't no 2,000!) Plus the people jogging around the track every weekend would not like losing their hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 What, really? (The real capacity is still high enough for third-div semi-pro but it ain't no 2,000!) Plus the people jogging around the track every weekend would not like losing their hours! Capacity is taken from a list of Canadian soccer stadiums, it does look quite small from the pic in this article : http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/04/richmond-minoru-park-undergo-major-changes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If Forrest City, K-W United and Thunder Bay Chill were added to L1 Ontario you'd the quality of the league would certainly improve quite a bit. I agree with the CSA on this one (surprisingly). It's time to stop outsourcing our soccer system, especially at the lower levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Level of play is also a matter of time. How long has PDL been in play? L1 has been in existence for one year and even now some players have used it to their benefit (Larin comes to mind). A nationwide D1 league sounds awesome, bet let's get the bottom of the pyramid ready first, creating pathways for young inspiring players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Any links to that info/quote? Follow the link to the article. I am making a conclusion based on the evidence. L1O's standards will likely be what a BC league follows as well... And that is precisely my objection. The L1O standards are far less than what should be required of a professional league. Possible teams for a D3 L1O Style BC League : Do you have any knowledge of the game here in BC? I ask because you appear to not realize that we in fact already have an, "L1O style BC League" called the Pacific Coast Soccer League (PCSL) which for 50+ years has run a summer league featuring players from local clubs and college teams playing in front of small crowds primarily consisting of family and friends of the players. I don't see any evidence that L1O is anything more than that. I agree with the CSA on this one (surprisingly). It's time to stop outsourcing our soccer system, especially at the lower levels. And I challenge the assertion that we are doing any such thing. All we are doing is finding teams that our teams can play against. Are you really prepared to have our players play against weaker teams simply because they are Canadian? Is that really how our players improve and compete in the wider football world? Are you really prepared to have fewer spectators at the games because the media and casual fans wil not take a league seriously that features regular matches between Nanaimo, Chilliwack and Langley? Are you prepared to cover the losses due to the lesser revenue? Does it make sense to continue the same system that has failed for the last 50 years by changing only the name of the league? Show me something better than the current PCSL and I will be onboard. Show me that L1O is raising it's standards and demonstrating some ambition and I will stop criticising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Follow the link to the article. I am making a conclusion based on the evidence. And that is precisely my objection. The L1O standards are far less than what should be required of a professional league. Do you have any knowledge of the game here in BC? I ask because you appear to not realize that we in fact already have an, "L1O style BC League" called the Pacific Coast Soccer League (PCSL) which for 50+ years has run a summer league featuring players from local clubs and college teams playing in front of small crowds primarily consisting of family and friends of the players. I don't see any evidence that L1O is anything more than that. And I challenge the assertion that we are doing any such thing. All we are doing is finding teams that our teams can play against. Are you really prepared to have our players play against weaker teams simply because they are Canadian? Is that really how our players improve and compete in the wider football world? Are you really prepared to have fewer spectators at the games because the media and casual fans wil not take a league seriously that features regular matches between Nanaimo, Chilliwack and Langley? Are you prepared to cover the losses due to the lesser revenue? Does it make sense to continue the same system that has failed for the last 50 years by changing only the name of the league? Show me something better than the current PCSL and I will be onboard. Show me that L1O is raising it's standards and demonstrating some ambition and I will stop criticising. I agree with you Ted on the standards, they should be higher, but I can see a new BC League using a similar set to begin with. L1 Ontario's standards were for the first 2 years I think and so they should progressively be increased starting with year 3 in 2016 and hopefully will. I'm aware of the PCSL and its history and yes, a new BC league must be more than just another version of that league to be taken seriously and grow into a true professional league. Although the PCSL has payed players in the past I think and had a somewhat higher profile previously, they don't currently as far as I know and are now pretty much strictly an amateur league. L1O standards from what I remember stated 20K minimum budjet for wages the first year and 22K the second but it is for semi-pro L1O teams that came into the league - if the new L1O team was amatuer then those regulations don't apply.I may be wrong on this but basically for the first 2 years (year 1 anyway) all the teams that were admitted were amatuer so they aren't paying players salaries. A new BC league should aspire to be a true semi pro league at first with only semi-pro teams operating. League 1 Ontario Application Package : http://www.ontariosoccer.net/Portals/11/ltpd/Application%20Package%20for%20League%20Entry%20November%202013.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I agree that if we are going to do a BC league it needs to be "semi-pro" (gods I hate that term) but you still have not answered the really important questions around the business. How are you going to get the media and the casual fan to take seriously a new league rather than USL? Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, Vancouver, etc are all going to be more attractive fixtures than Nanaimo, Abbotsford and Langley. How are you going to successfully market games against small towns? Why would TV and radio cover bush-league games any more than they do now without a hook? Why would sponsors pay top dollar for teams with little media coverage and low attendances? If you have some magic pot of money to invest in a league that can overcome the difficulties then by all means let us forge ahead with a noble soccer crusade based on local BC teams. If, on the other hand, we don't have deep pockets then it makes more business sense to add a team or two to the USL and give our players and fans the best possible competiton available in BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The question of "rather than USL" is a red herring. Richmond and Kelowna and New Westminster are never getting USL Pro clubs, never ever ever ever ever ever ever. Vancouver is never getting a USL Pro club with only slightly fewer "ever"s. They might, and in at least three of those cases should, get BC semi-pro clubs. There will be no national media coverage. Since when has a league like that ever had national media coverage? TV and radio certainly won't fall over themselves for this league but BCHL hockey, to name merely the most successful example, and other bush-league teams do chisel out a local media niche in many cities. The local rags have pages for the local lacrosse team and kids' baseball and curling tournaments where the top prize is a turkey. Again, the Province won't care but when would they ever? It's not just about the big cities, and it isn't just about a couple more roster spots for Canadians, it's about building a pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 USL doesn't get serious tv or media coverage either mostly and their really a non factor going forward with regards to this Canadian D3 system of regional leagues that are being created according to the Easton Report framework. It makes no point to bring them into this discussion imho. That boat has sailed. You bring up valid points though with regards to the standards and markets. I think its important that the league doesn't turn into solely a Greater Vancouver one just as League 1 Ontario shouldn't only be a GTA one. Sure, Vancouver will have more than 1 or 2 teams but they need others outside of GV like Victoria, Kelowna, Kamloops, and Nanaimo to be in the mix. As Lord Bob says it about building a pyramid. These regional D3 League's are just starting out so initially they're not going to be high profile but over time hopefully they will in the future become strong league's and a strong Canadian D3 with an equivalent profile in Canadian soccer as the CHL hockey league's have across the country for Canadian hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 TV and radio certainly won't fall over themselves for this league but BCHL hockey, to name merely the most successful example, and other bush-league teams do chisel out a local media niche in many cities. Yep, that is what I am talking about. Carving out a local media niche is dependant on getting local medai interested. I am not talking about national or even "Provincial" media. Victoria United, in the period 1994-2009 (pre-Highlanders, when they were "top of the pyramid"), got sporadic to no media coverage from local media and attendances that in good years averaged around 350 per game Victoria HIghlanders (2009-2014) got more media coverage and average attendances that by the last season were 1,200+ per game. I attribute the difference, in part, to being in a league that was perceived by the local media as worth covering. Combined with actual paid staff promoting the team and a touch of professionalsim from staff and players it made the team more attractive to the media and fans. In order for a D3 league to be sustainable it must average closer to 1,000 paid tickets per game than 350. In order for a D3 to get those HIghlanders numbers rather than United numbers fans and media must believe that they are getting soccer that is of higher quality than what they can see in the VISL, VMSL, current PCSL or Varsity teams. In order to be better for Canadian development a new D3 league must offer players better training, coaching and games than what they can get in VISL, VMSL, PCSL or any of the Varsity teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Possible teams for a D3 L1O Style BC League : Victoria - Rap Stadium.........................3800 capacity Richmond - Minoru Park Stadium....... 2000 Vancouver/Burnaby - Swanguard.......5000 Kelowna - Apple Bowl...........................2300 Coquitlam - Perry Percy Stadium.........1482 Langley - McCloud Athletic Park...........2200 Abbotsford - Bateman Park.................1000 Kamloops - Hilside Stadium..................1000 Chilliwack - Exhibition Stadium.............2500 Nanaimo - Caledonia Park......................700 Guess New Westminster should be added to this list as well, Queens Park Stadium, 2000 capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have to come back on my previous stance here that BC needs a NEW league. Come to think of it, why not keep the current PCSL in place? BC soccer would have to cooperate with the operators of that league to see how regulations can be adjusted so that player-development becomes a prime focus. If the PCSL is willing to cooperate and push through some changes, I'm all for it. It's probably going to be (some of) the same clubs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 ^Exactly. Why reinvent the wheel? Why not take a long history and already existing cups and bring the standards up rather than start from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ^Exactly. Why reinvent the wheel? Why not take a long history and already existing cups and bring the standards up rather than start from scratch. Because starting from scratch creates hype and can be marketed as something new. Here is an example...MLS reserve games used to draw crowds of 50 people in Vancouver, and they were free. Polish and put a bow on what essentially is the same thing, charge some money and pump the shit out of it...presto chango...thousands of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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