A Better Plan for the MNT

[nolando]

Most of us can agree that the current roster for recent friendlies leaves a lot to be desired. We also know that very few of our senior players are playing regular minutes anywhere, or have any realstic hope of doing so in the near future.

Given that Floro is also going to be the U23 manager and that this group will come up before we need to worry about serious senior competitions, why not use the money and resources (which we know are in short supply) towards a U23 team playing months friendlies at home and abroad. I would suggest having 2 or 3 senior players involved from time to time ( A Hutch, a Borjan, an Edgar) like the old Olympic rules allowed (do they still?) and stage mini tournaments between three teams like the Japanese have done for the past twenty years with much success to show for it. Perhaps stage a mini national tour versus Canadian clubs in preseason, other countries' U23 or U20 teams, or foreign teams on break (Heart and Millwall, anyone?).

Why waste what little we have on calling up journeymen like Ledgerwood and never-will-be's like Straith alongside a half dozen guys out of contract or on the cusp of being unemployed (or retired) when we could truly put our money where are mouths are and essentially disband the senior team for the next 12 months or so and put the singular focus on qualifying for the next Olympics? Seems to me to be to everyone's benefit. I highly doubt that most of the senior members of the squad would even mind seen as how many seem to use every available excuse in the book to miss these dreadful events as it is.

Thoughts?

[tmcmurph]

You need the old guys to measure the younger ones against. That and our depth doesn't exist. I don't think it is a waste calling up players like Ledgerwood and even old geezers like Dero. I like the idea of playing TFC, Montreal and Vancouver as preseason friendlies.

I disagree on Straith. He is employed and getting playing time at D3 on a team that has promoted to D2 in the recent past (currently 5th and 1 point out of promotion zone). At 23 and 7 appearances so far (16 games) he needs to break through soon but it is too early to write him off (23 years old).

[El Hombre]

I disagree on Straith. He is employed and getting playing time at D3 on a team that has promoted to D2 in the recent past (currently 5th and 1 point out of promotion zone). At 23 and 7 appearances so far (16 games) he needs to break through soon but it is too early to write him off (23 years old).

A-fucking-men.

[nolando]

Jesus, guys, this wasn't meant to be a Save Adam Straith thread. What to you think of my (quite serious) idea?

In all honesty a bunch of the current group would still be on a U23 team:

D- Ashtone Morgan | CAN / Toronto FC

D- Doneil Henry | CAN / Toronto FC

D- Karl W. Ouimette | CAN / Montreal Impact

M- Russell Teibert | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC

M- Samuel Piette | GER / Fortuna Dusseldorf

M- Jonathan Osorio | CAN / Toronto FC

M- Stefan Cebara | Unattached / sans club

Some turn 24 in the first half of next year and wouldn't qualify for long, admittedly.

The thing is you could take these guys, add in Opare, Daniel Haber, Cavallini, Stillo, Tissot, Adekugbe, Aleman, Petrasso, Carreiro, Farmer, Alderson, Stanese, Di Chiara, Sadi Jalali, Mallan Roberts, and have this young team play against younger squads from countries in similar situations to ours.

If you think this is drastic why not make it a U-25 and then add a few more young bodies in Saiko, Edwini-Bonsu, Marcus Haber, Simon Thomas, Sherif El-Masri and then also keep the guys like Ashtone Morgan that are nearly 23 for a longer spell?

They would probably still lose a lot of matches and start with no cohesion but there would be no training of late-twentysomething-journeymen and the ground zero that Floro obviously seems to be starting with would be much more of a seed-planting/investing in the future process IMO. I imagine I could less painfully watch this squad lose 4-0 to a Slovenian or Australian U23 and see some room for hope and some signs of progress. It would make for a much better Olympic Qualifying run, I would imagine, which could pay dividends for the whole program.

[tmcmurph]

No problem, just mentioning it seeing as you brought it up

I would favour anything that could get us into the Olympics. It would be great publicity and look at the excellent fallout from the WNT going on their run. We could use something positive. The problem I see with going with an all youth all the time is we would not be giving ourselves the best chance at making it. Whatever the rules are use them to our benefit because everyone else will be.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I agree with the premise, although you would go '93+ to have this make sense (being the cutoff for the next Olympics). That would give you a squad looking something like this for the current pros:

Crepeau

Adekugbe

Henry

Gasparotto

Piette

Messoudi

Petrasso

Carreira

Aleman

Vukovic

Clarke

Assuming you could get Hutch, Will Johnson and Edgar to all turn-up, I suppose those guys could play some nations without getting completed skinned. I'm not sure, practically, if you're going to get many European nations to pay all your costs if you're sending out all these kids. If Floro could get himself settled in North America, you could certainly think about playing the likes of Haiti, Cuba, T&T, etc., away. Or perhaps in Florida. My sense is that we only have 3-6 guys in Europe who are even at MLS level, so you might as well move the program back home and forget about a lot of the 2nd tier journeymen -as the OP mentioned.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I would also add that several of our best 93s-95s are currently in NCAA, and Floro needs to wrap his Spanish melon around this: Huitema, Larin, Hallis, Awuah, Nanco, Morton, Carmargo. I'd like to see this group take on some Caribbean minnows.

[Bully]

Our olympic squad actually looks half decent

[ag futbol]

I think you can use the national team level to develop chemistry among players but you can’t flat-out develop talent. I’d continue to take the best group of players we have and try to mesh them together as a group. Some focus on younger players yes, but established younger players.

I wouldn’t go the U23 route. It will be extremely hard to know who among this group will make it and who will fall by the wayside. Find ways to provide more club opportunities for more players and use the national time primarily to build the strongest unit that we can.

[rob.notenboom]

Not saying that you have a bad idea ... definitely some merit there. However, considering our thin talent pool I like Floro's/the CSA's approach so far and I'm not sure I'd want to make drastic changes until Floro has had a qualification cycle under his belt. I'm rather impatient for results but I'm hoping that a little patience with Floro will pay off in the medium to long term. Not sure what gives me this feeling admittedly, but I'm hoping it's vindicated.

[Kurosawa1555362267]

The thread is called a better plan, doesn't that implies that there is a plan? So far it's not a plan, it's just call anyone available at game time.

I agree Floro should concentrate on the youngeer guys, he should also give these guys opposition that is closer to what they will face in their next really meanigful game, against the likes of Porto Rico and St-Kitts and Nevis.

[jpg75]

As someone who has been advocating for a greater investment in the U23 program i would hesitate to speak harshly against this plan, however i don't feel using the MNT as a training ground for a group of young, unproven players who may not even be playing in 3 or 4 years is worthwhile. The status quo might suck, but it is what it is and we just need to wait for this experimental squad stuff to roll over (and it should once Floro figures out who won't cut and stops calling them). That said, i really do hope the CSA manages to hold at least a half dozen camps for the crop of 93's-96's as they should have a shot at qualifying for Rio.

[nolando]

As someone who has been advocating for a greater investment in the U23 program i would hesitate to speak harshly against this plan, however i don't feel using the MNT as a training ground for a group of young, unproven players who may not even be playing in 3 or 4 years is worthwhile. The status quo might suck, but it is what it is and we just need to wait for this experimental squad stuff to roll over (and it should once Floro figures out who won't cut and stops calling them). That said, i really do hope the CSA manages to hold at least a half dozen camps for the crop of 93's-96's as they should have a shot at qualifying for Rio.

Great respect for you but I find it hard to believe that even half of Issey, Ledgerwood, Stama, Hirschfeld, Hume, Dero will be playing in 3 or 4 years. It's quite possible that all will be finished.

I'd rather put my money on (and give the bulk of the starting minutes to) the Daniel Habers, Teiberts, and Osorios of the world. As long as we have some sort of plan in place, I'm okay with us failing (including having some players not pan out professionally) just as long as we try to give the whole national setup a structure going forward. I'm not okay with no plan going forward and going with the status quo. The status quo is 8-1 and nobody in their right mind wanting anyhing to do with our program, including (apparently) even previously very dedicated MNT regulars. The time for change is now.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I would like to see Tissot, Daniel Haber, Opare, and Stillo in this camp. Those are the only younger players pre-93 I can think of offhand missing from this camp, unless we start going into the NCAA ranks for Mackenzie Pridham and Allando Matheson.

[jpg75]

Great respect for you but I find it hard to believe that even half of Issey, Ledgerwood, Stama, Hirschfeld, Hume, Dero will be playing in 3 or 4 years. It's quite possible that all will be finished.

I'd rather put my money on (and give the bulk of the starting minutes to) the Daniel Habers, Teiberts, and Osorios of the world. As long as we have some sort of plan in place, I'm okay with us failing (including having some players not pan out professionally) just as long as we try to give the whole national setup a structure going forward. I'm not okay with no plan going forward and going with the status quo. The status quo is 8-1 and nobody in their right mind wanting anyhing to do with our program, including (apparently) even previously very dedicated MNT regulars. The time for change is now.

Hey don't get me wrong, i'm not a huge fan of calling in old guys who have lost "it" or never really had "it" over our best young guys who have lots of promise. If it was up to me i wouldn't have called in guys like Stama, Issey and even Hume (or Dunfield). At the same time i'm not sure suiting up a bunch of kids in their teens and early 20's in place of a full NT program is wise either. We have a group of solid pros in their mid-20's who will form the core of the next WCQ squad who need to keep playing together to get better. Guys like Borjan, Edgar, Hainault, De Jong, Johnson and Jackson. Even guys like Ricketts and Ledgerwood (who else are we putting at RB?) are not write offs for me and i want to keep Hutch involved too. If we blend in the young guys in their early 20's who are already performing as pros like Osorio, Teibert, Cavallini etc. we'll be on the right track.

[RJB]

The MNT is not the place to develop players I'm afraid. When guys are getting more caps for the national team than they do for their club, that is not a small problem.

The National Team cannot be fixed by itself, but only through a steady stream of talented youngsters that are getting many professional minutes at a good level. Floro and coaches are good for tactics, but they can't change the level of the players they receive.

So, while your plan is a good idea and probably a more effective alternative than present, it is akin to putting lipstick on a pig. The MNT is at its lowest level that I've seen(memory goes back to '94 qualifying), and very likely it's lowest ever. We are a minnow in CONCACAF and beyond.

[Blackdude]

The way it's going, Canada could be out of World Cup qualifying before the Olympics qualifiers start.

I don't think that by calling kids, you'll improve the national team, you need a plan for the players you will select in 2015. I do think that Floro will make decisions on certain players soonner rather than later, but he needs to see what will make the best team in 2015. I still believe that Dunfield shouldn't get a call, but the reason why he's there, is more because your top 5 central midfielders are out. (Hutch, Bernier, JDG, Johnson and Edgar) and the kid that was cover to them got injured too. That's a problem about the depth of this team, and yes, I would have called a player like Alderson before Dunfield, but then again, it was probably easier to call Dunfield than Alderson, as cover.

And I seriously ask what national team calls up players who have played less than 10 games as a professionnal? Canada does it a lot to unproven guys. The sad thing is, as bad as Ledgerwood is, he's in this camp our best central midfielder. Sad, but true. He may not be the best, but he was in my mind our most consistent player this year. People will say Swedish 2nd division this and that, but then again, I'd rather see a guy starting week in week out in the Swedish 2nd division than a bench warmer in the German 2nd or 3rd on my team.