Jump to content

Turning Canadian Soccer Around - Paul James


superbrad

Recommended Posts

Article by Paul James

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Published on Monday, Jul. 19, 2010 10:05PM EDT

Last updated on Monday, Jul. 19, 2010 10:06PM EDT

.It was good to hear Manchester United’s Sir Alex Ferguson being interviewed on TSN’s Off The Record. When asked about Canadian soccer and our lack of success, he commented about the geographic disadvantages we face and the lack of motivation our players have once they reach 16. True enough, although rather simplistic for the 21st century.

Not to be too critical of Sir Alex, after all, he was not asking the questions and what would he know of the ingrained soccer problems we face in our country. He has never lived the experience.

The lack of financial soccer investment, our poor coaching development record, the political quagmire that stifles creativity and advancement, the lack of solid leadership at the top levels of our game, and the poor approach some of our national team players have once they make it to the senior team, are the significant issues that should be tackled.

From somewhere we need gutsy leadership for Canadian soccer to improve.

As most of us now know, Canada has dropped down the FIFA rankings to No. 100, our worst placement since 2007 when we reached an all-time low of No. 103.

Yes, things are changing, and progress can be seen in some areas. But let’s not get too excited just because we have our main urban centres now engaged in Major League Soccer.

While this improvement is an important development link for our national team player system, it will take time before it bears fruit. Additionally, it has to be made in tandem with other improvements for there to be sustainable long-term success.

This should not be about qualifying Canada to a World Cup on one occasion. This should be about building a soccer nation as strong as Mexico and the United States.

A few months ago, Domenic Maestracci, president of the Canadian Soccer Association, did comment that Canada should be third in the CONCACAF region and qualifying for World Cups. I guess we know what he means. Don’t we? Canada a G8 nation with a high standard of living, significant soccer registrations throughout the country and now, some realistic professional soccer development for our players.

But do these facts guarantee us third spot in CONCACAF, especially in the short term? No. Not without improving our flaws. We would be naive to think any other way.

Maestracci’s proposal of going back to the CSA registration “tax well” for increased funding – requesting $2 from each registered player across the country to be channelled to national team programs – is an alarming indictment of the lack of vision and creativity.

The money would be used for our national senior men’s team to play more games.

The problem with such a levy in 2010 is that if it is used strictly for our men’s program over a three-year period, then really it is like buying a lottery ticket costing millions of dollars with no guarantee that Canada will qualify for Brazil in 2014.

Surely now, any increased CSA levies should be used to build badly needed soccer infrastructure that has some value in perpetuity and not placed on a gamble.

So, for example, take the increased revenues from the levy, speak to Canadian Interuniversity Sport about setting up a scholarship endowment, and stipulate in order for each university to claim a portion of the scholarship fund, it has to conduct full-time soccer programs.

There. You have a significant infrastructure improvement bringing two major stakeholders together. Coaching and player development plus player motivation beyond 16 – as Sir Alex mentioned – would be the positive consequences. And not just for today but for the long term.

Funding for our men’s national team should come from efficiently run national team games and other outside sources of revenue, not its paying members. The CSA relies too much on its constituents to fund our national programs and to fuel the national association.

How about the three Canadian MLS franchises contributing to the CSA through yearly sponsorship or donations. Why not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

A bit pandering to the everyday joe. Speaking as someone who does not have kids I can still see why raising the cost of the game at the grassroots level at this point is detrimental but it's not the clubs duty to make Canada succeed. Nor am I fan of the Canadian University system. It would be a long way to even get it to the standard of NCAA and everyone coming out of there is too old. At Canadian Uni's they'd be worse off when it came to becoming a professional in the beautiful game. We need to focus on Academies to give our future superstars the time to play anywhere they want and hopefully they'll come back to play for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

James last two pieces have been of high quality. The Canada I grew up in was always a country of soccer writers who simply go to the press release folder, pump up the people who kiss their asses, or rewrite the euro news. And one thing that will definitely help pull Canada out of the triple-digits is the new school of intelligent writing with guys like James, de Vos, and Knight. It's always the artists and cultural leaders who foment any type of revolution and change and we're having a renaissance in Canadian soccer of intelligent people who are both committed and passionate about the game and not afraid to speak their minds.

I like his idea and when you think about it the CIS is a perfect place to get an extremely high return on investment for a very modest outlay. We do not have a national league. The PDL and W Leagues are about 6 week seasons. Most countries in the world run 8 month seasons. We need to create long running high-performance programs across the entire country for players 18-25. The CIS is in every major city coast-to-coast, they have the on-field and off-field facilities (which lie dormant 10 months a year), they have the medical infrastructure, marketing, etc. There is no reason we cannot have programs as strong as south of the border. And again, they already have everything sitting there. Get the universities to hire professional permanent full-time staff and find creative ways to compensate talented kids to stay in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The idea that people graduating out of university at 21-22 are too old to play professionally is a crock. Sure, they won't make the Dutch "Logan's Run" squad but they could still profitably play for pro teams when they do graduate for 5-6 years.

That said, it's not funding for the purpose of developing post-graduation players that's important. Rather, it's the creation of a destination for younger players ("hey, I could get a scholarship, and more and better coaching / training!") that is the purpose of good funding for the CIS.

This dovetails nicely with the discussion about the women's program and the lack of scholastic support given to the U17 / U21 programs. The pressure would build on the programs to attend to this deficit if the goal truly was scholarship / university entry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At first thought i dismissed his argument because i can't see too many CIS players eventually becoming NT players and it might be a waste of money. I can only think of one at the moment who has gone on to play for us (Jazic), but then again there are a few others (Djekanovic, Nana) who are playing pro who have benefitted from the CIS program.

The more i think about it, it might not cost that much to upgrade the level of play in CIS Soccer. A fund to offer scholarships (ie. paid tuition) could probably reach 100 kids, at $5K that's only 500K to make sure good players wo can't afford school and might quit can keep playing. It would help even more if the CIS allowed atheltic scholarships to be offered, then the schools could foot the bill. Requiring coaches to have a CSA B Licence minimum would be great too. It would be another safety net to catch any kids that might stop playing between 18-23, and if even a few of them go on to play in MLS and become depth players for the NT then it's not such a waste.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At first thought i dismissed his argument because i can't see too many CIS players eventually becoming NT players and it might be a waste of money. I can only think of one at the moment who has gone on to play for us (Jazic), but then again there are a few others (Djekanovic, Nana) who are playing pro who have benefitted from the CIS program.

The more i think about it, it might not cost that much to upgrade the level of play in CIS Soccer. A fund to offer scholarships (ie. paid tuition) could probably reach 100 kids, at $5K that's only 500K to make sure good players wo can't afford school and might quit can keep playing. It would help even more if the CIS allowed atheltic scholarships to be offered, then the schools could foot the bill. Requiring coaches to have a CSA B Licence minimum would be great too. It would be another safety net to catch any kids that might stop playing between 18-23, and if even a few of them go on to play in MLS and become depth players for the NT then it's not such a waste.

The potential is there from the program through. I don't think it would be a waste of money if the level of play in the CIS ultimately improves, and more quality players go that route.

I remember when Ben Knight made the suggestion of the CIS getting involved in the MLS draft, everybody here arrogantly waved the notion off because they thought if a player is good enough, he could sign to an MLS team himself. However, the CIS getting more involved and developed through better funding and getting included in the MLS draft has quite a few host of benefits in itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Well i still think at the present moment that including the CIS in the MLS draft is a waste of time. Cdn players still count as Internationals for the American teams so there's very little incentive to spend resources scouting schools here in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Well i still think at the present moment that including the CIS in the MLS draft is a waste of time. Cdn players still count as Internationals for the American teams so there's very little incentive to spend resources scouting schools here in Canada.

Yes, but they would be an easy source for internationals. Granted, while it would take a while for the CIS level of play to improve, half a decade at least I would imagine, it's still a good start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously I'm biased but I truly don't think that the CIS is really an option and I don't know anyone involved in the sport at a high level who really sees it as a serious option. Hell, NCAA isn't REALLY doing a good job of "development" (in the traditional sense of the term development) and those programs have far more resources that any CIS program would.

CIS will always have some good players, some good coaches and some good programs but the vast majority of schools are not going to be inclined to make the type of investment needed, nor should they. At the end of the day, we are dealing with SCHOOLS, not professional soccer clubs, and I don't ever see that changing. Furthermore, what is the financial incentive for them to invest in 9-10 month a year soccer programs? What happens to the top players who don't have an inclination to go to school (or don't have the grades). Why would USSF ever support the inclusion of CIS players in the MLS draft, to the detriment of their partners at NCAA? Let's never forget that Canadian teams in MLS are guests of the USSF in their domestic 1st division.

As North American soccer grows in sophistication, the notion that the post secondary school system will develop soccer players appropriately has to go out the window. The NHL doesn't look to CIS for hockey players (or almost never does) and NCAA isn't even remotely producing as many players as Junior A hockey is. The best pro hockey players consistently come from the CHL or are developed by European clubs. Every now and then, a US college delivers a really great hockey player but it is more the exception rather than the rule.

It gets sort of tiresome to keep trotting out the same old arguments but the CHL has proven the most effective model for developing elite hockey players and there is no reason we can’t replicate a similar model for soccer. Actually, WE MUST support the development of such a system and, if the CSA is going to invest money anywhere, it ought to be looking for how it can help provide financial support to encourage the emergence of that type of professional development league. Obviously, I’d like to see the CSL become that league.

if the soccer community is willing to actually provide sustained tangible support to pro development leagues, people will come to the table willing to invest in growing the sport at that tier and we will have the soccer player and coach development system needed for Canada to have the quality and quantity of elite players (and coaches) we need to become a top soccer nation in CONCACAF. However, without that tangible support, it is impossible because, believe me, it’s not cheap to train, clothe, transport, house, etc... players.

I'll never be convinced that the post secondary school system is the way to develop soccer players. We (Milltown FC) strongly encourage players to go to school and get an education if that is what they want to do but we also tell each and every one of them that their best opportunity for proper soccer development will be to continue training and playing in the CSL. I would like to find a way for clubs like ours to work with the school system (high schools, colleges and universities) so that our players can get the necessary training time required to develop into a professional footballer while also getting an education and even having something of a family/personal life. This is something that all of us who are invested in the development of soccer players will need to sort out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without knocking the CIS too much here, I think there are areas where resources should be applied first.

A national academy would be a good starting point. IF it could actually be run properly without the usual political hodge podge. Seems to work for the French and to a certain extent the USSF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Agreed 100% (oops, to VPjr's post). Name one professional sport in Canada (other than CFL) that signs any significant number of players from CIS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously I'm biased but I truly don't think that the CIS is really an option and I don't know anyone involved in the sport at a high level who really sees it as a serious option. Hell, NCAA isn't REALLY doing a good job of "development" (in the traditional sense of the term development) and those programs have far more resources that any CIS program would.

CIS will always have some good players, some good coaches and some good programs but the vast majority of schools are not going to be inclined to make the type of investment needed, nor should they. At the end of the day, we are dealing with SCHOOLS, not professional soccer clubs, and I don't ever see that changing. Furthermore, what is the financial incentive for them to invest in 9-10 month a year soccer programs? What happens to the top players who don't have an inclination to go to school (or don't have the grades). Why would USSF ever support the inclusion of CIS players in the MLS draft, to the detriment of their partners at NCAA? Let's never forget that Canadian teams in MLS are guests of the USSF in their domestic 1st division.

As North American soccer grows in sophistication, the notion that the post secondary school system will develop soccer players appropriately has to go out the window. The NHL doesn't look to CIS for hockey players (or almost never does) and NCAA isn't even remotely producing as many players as Junior A hockey is. The best pro hockey players consistently come from the CHL or are developed by European clubs. Every now and then, a US college delivers a really great hockey player but it is more the exception rather than the rule.

It gets sort of tiresome to keep trotting out the same old arguments but the CHL has proven the most effective model for developing elite hockey players and there is no reason we can’t replicate a similar model for soccer. Actually, WE MUST support the development of such a system and, if the CSA is going to invest money anywhere, it ought to be looking for how it can help provide financial support to encourage the emergence of that type of professional development league. Obviously, I’d like to see the CSL become that league.

if the soccer community is willing to actually provide sustained tangible support to pro development leagues, people will come to the table willing to invest in growing the sport at that tier and we will have the soccer player and coach development system needed for Canada to have the quality and quantity of elite players (and coaches) we need to become a top soccer nation in CONCACAF. However, without that tangible support, it is impossible because, believe me, it’s not cheap to train, clothe, transport, house, etc... players.

I'll never be convinced that the post secondary school system is the way to develop soccer players. We (Milltown FC) strongly encourage players to go to school and get an education if that is what they want to do but we also tell each and every one of them that their best opportunity for proper soccer development will be to continue training and playing in the CSL. I would like to find a way for clubs like ours to work with the school system (high schools, colleges and universities) so that our players can get the necessary training time required to develop into a professional footballer while also getting an education and even having something of a family/personal life. This is something that all of us who are invested in the development of soccer players will need to sort out.

I agree. 100%.

We should be developing a high level league like the CHL does for hockey. There's a reason why most NCAA draft picks in any single sport bust. Even in the top sport, football, most guys can't make the professional transition. We need a professional league like the CHL (READ CSL) that operates in that manner. I'm sure if you look at the number of drafted players who end up as successes in the sport they choose, you'd find that the NHL actually has a higher rate of success in producing pro players (not just NHL but all leagues). There's a reason why so many NCAA football stars just don't make it in the NFL or CFL...they're not trained properly.

College is all hype and there are too many distractions which take away from the game.

We need a CHL style league. The only way this will succeed initially is if we stick to BC, Alberta and Southern Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. The Prairies aren't ready for soccer, not yet, but if there is success in the other regions, eventually converts will be made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without knocking the CIS too much here, I think there are areas where resources should be applied first.

A national academy would be a good starting point. IF it could actually be run properly without the usual political hodge podge. Seems to work for the French and to a certain extent the USSF.

A national academy would be great. It'd be even better if they based it in Ontario and ran it as a part of the CSL. Waterloo is becoming a symbol of Canadiana these days, why not put a national Academy in that place?

But if we're going to do that, I say we put in rules against taking players from Ontario, where a number of CSL and PDL opportunities exist. This national academy should serve as a conduit for players who have no options to take their game to the next level (IE: Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Northern Ontario, Newfoundland...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Dino, any talk among league officials to institute an age quota in the CSL? I realize the league already does a good job of recruiting young, local talent but this might go a long way towards making it a true development league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, CHL has about 500 of its grads playing in CIS right now. That's because CHL recognizes the importance of finishing high school education... Granted, that's 2-3 players a year (assuming 500 players / 4 years = 125 players per year) that move on to university per team - not a huge amount, but probably greater than the number that have any sort of NHL career...

The majority of graduates from ANY development system are a bust - that's no knock on NCAA. Baseball is the same; basketball is the same. I'd suggest you go look at the US Olympic hockey squad before you write off NCAA in favour of CHL. (Hint: 17 vs 6)

CHL is a mature entity and you would be hard pressed to duplicate it today. On top of that, they started in a world in which many teams could be the dominant sporting expression of civic pride for various towns. This world no longer exists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, CHL has about 500 of its grads playing in CIS right now. That's because CHL recognizes the importance of finishing high school education... Granted, that's 2-3 players a year (assuming 500 players / 4 years = 125 players per year) that move on to university per team - not a huge amount, but probably greater than the number that have any sort of NHL career...

The majority of graduates from ANY development system are a bust - that's no knock on NCAA. Baseball is the same; basketball is the same. I'd suggest you go look at the US Olympic hockey squad before you write off NCAA in favour of CHL. (Hint: 17 vs 6)

CHL is a mature entity and you would be hard pressed to duplicate it today. On top of that, they started in a world in which many teams could be the dominant sporting expression of civic pride for various towns. This world no longer exists.

I too realize the importance of getting, at minimum, a high school education. I think that the tendency in many parts of the footballing world to de-emphasize school in order to be 100% focused on football is irresponsible.

I'd be very happy to see a day when players from the CSL, who have determined that a fully professional pro career as a footballer is not going to happen, opts instead to go to college/university (in Canada or even US Div 3 or NAIA), represent their school and get a good education that will serve them well.

I do agree that replicating the CHL will be tough but not impossible....Nothing is Impossible (i think I ripped off a shoe commercial). The powers that be need to realize that all the other convoluted and unproven development models need to be shelved and try to adopt a made in Canada version of a development model that is more closely aligned with global standards.

If we just look at our problems from a coaching perspective, we'll never develop a large pool of great coaches if we don't give them opportunities to coach players in a professional environment. We develop lots and lots of trainers here but not a lot of coaches. We need to create opportunities for people who have a passion for the coaching profession to be able to be gainfully employed in said profession so that they have motivation to stick with it, upgrade their skills, and push themselves and their players to be the best they can be (and be rewarded financially for developing players on behalf of their club).

By the way, as luck would have it, here is an interesting take on the situation in the US re: college soccer and player development.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072003679.html

National Team coaches know that the college system isn't the answer but those people who are profiting nicely from the current college system are LOATHE to have anyone steal their pot of gold out from them.

College Coaches, especially at the big programs, do VERY well. they will fight tooth and nail to ensure that the college system remains intact or becomes even more entrenched as the primary player development pathway.

If MLS brings back a reserve league (as is being rumoured), I guarantee that more and more people will skip college.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. I can only apply a long-term amateur knowledge of men's CIS but I have a very solid understanding of CIS and NCAA women's soccer and your understanding and viewpoint is considerably different than mine.

First off, I love Milltown FC. What they represent, the approach you've taken, the opportunity for players and the diligence of everyone involved. But I also have enormous respect for everyone involved in the CIS and I disagree with your conjecture and approach that they are competing programs in a holy turf war of purity, God's will and political correctness.

NCAA isn't REALLY doing a good job of "development".

MLS SuperDraft First Round picks from the NCAA:

2000 - 9/12

2001 - 8/12

2002 - 10/12

2003 - 8/10

2004 - 9/10

2005 - 11/12

2006 - 12/12

2007 - 12/13

2008 - 12/14

2009 - 15/15

2010 - 15/16

Women's NCAA national team conversion - probably close to 100%

NCAA programs have far more resources that any CIS program would.

NCAA programs have a coaching staff, turf, fields, indoor, weight and training facilities, a medical department, marketing help, office space. A lot of great Canadian programs already have the same. It's simply increasing their funding in a limited way to make it happen, funding which can come from a number of different sources because of the many different parties involved.

the vast majority of schools are not going to be inclined to make the type of investment needed, nor should they. At the end of the day, we are dealing with SCHOOLS, not professional soccer clubs, and I don't ever see that changing.

Theyalready do it in SCHOOLS all over the USA. Schools that provide the top players in the SuperDraft and stock the women's national teams.

Furthermore, what is the financial incentive for them to invest in 9-10 month a year soccer programs?

Again, thousands already do full school-year programs south of the border. What is the incentive for the huge football programs in the CIS? Large staff, annual fitness programs, etc. They do it. And what is the incentive for the serious 8-month NCAA soccer programs? They do it.

What happens to the top players who don't have an inclination to go to school (or don't have the grades)

If they are men they move to Toronto and play CSL or go overseas. And if you are not in the GTA and not in school and committed to and seeking a lifetime soccer career you should be leaving the country anyway.

As North American soccer grows in sophistication, the notion that the post secondary school system will develop soccer players appropriately has to go out the window.

The likelihood of a player turning their love of the game into a lifelong career they can support a family at is well below 1%. Encouraging people to abandon the basic education 99% will require and which they can barter their prowess in the sport to receive for free and hedge their millifractional odds is a risky business to be in. I LOVE players who just live for the game and nothing else. But encouraging thousands of Canadian kids to all turn down a high quality free education and a great soccer program for full-time soccer is just never going to happen.

It gets sort of tiresome to keep trotting out the same old arguments but the CHL has proven the most effective model for developing elite hockey players and there is no reason we can’t replicate a similar model for soccer.

The CHL succeeds because we are a hockey country and the sport is a hundred years embedded in our culture and there are teams in every small town from sea to sea to sea. There will NEVER be a soccer version of the CHL in Canada in the next 50 years: there is nowhere near the culture of committed players because (a) there is no prospect of realistically returning their time and opportunity cost and (B) the great majority of Canadians will never watch a soccer game.

Actually, WE MUST support the development of such a system and, if the CSA is going to invest money anywhere, it ought to be looking for how it can help provide financial support to encourage the emergence of that type of professional development league... if the soccer community is willing to actually provide sustained tangible support to pro development leagues, people will come to the table willing to invest in growing the sport at that tier.

Every team, club, league and sport in Canada would like a cheque in their pocket. From the small bit I've followed I think what the CSL needs is great leadership.

I'll never be convinced that the post secondary school system is the way to develop soccer players.

You can go down the USA and Canadian women's teams and pretty much every player has come from the NCAA. The Americans are one of the top two teams in the world and we rank 10th for a small percentage of size. Whether they are philosophically the best way to develop players isn't moot but it is less relevant for the next 50 years until we have major players (investors) in the game all across the country and a development system with enough conversion to millionaire players to attract kids away from free post-secondary hedging. And again, we have limited funds and they have enormous resources and infrastructure.

We (Milltown FC) strongly encourage players to go to school and get an education if that is what they want to do but we also tell each and every one of them that their best opportunity for proper soccer development will be to continue training and playing in the CSL.

What can the CSL offer that a well-run CIS program can't? Coaching? Hardly. Anyone can hire anyone. Facilities? Turf? Indoor through the Winter? Hardly, CSL teams can never provide a margin of what CIS programs have. Medical? Marketing? The CIS can provide anything the CSL can.

There's a reason why most NCAA draft picks in any single sport bust.

NBA? NFL? ...

I too realize the importance of getting, at minimum, a high school education.

Unfortunately about the only thing a high school education can get you these days is a job at McDonalds. You can't even work beyond labour in most trades without a high school education anymore.

I'd be very happy to see a day when players from the CSL, who have determined that a fully professional pro career as a footballer is not going to happen...

I think that number is probably about 99%.

If we just look at our problems from a coaching perspective, we'll never develop a large pool of great coaches if we don't give them opportunities to coach players in a professional environment.

The NCAA probably has over 10,000 coaches, many of whom are involved in the national team programs.

National Team coaches know that the college system isn't the answer but those people who are profiting nicely from the current college system are LOATHE to have anyone steal their pot of gold out from them.... College Coaches, especially at the big programs, do VERY well. they will fight tooth and nail to ensure that the college system remains intact or becomes even more entrenched as the primary player development pathway.

I can guarantee you that no one in Canada is profiting. I don't know how much James made at York but there are very few people in the CIS earning anything not famously low. Unless you are doing it for the love of the game you were out long ago. In the NCAA there are a few marquis names like Dorrance who do ok but outside of a small number the pay is actually quite marginal.

Also, it's good to be concerned about all of these opportunities for men but we do not have a single domestic professional opportunity for our women who are half the players in this country. If we are going to invest in private sector enterprises that should be our #1 priority.

Sorry if that got your bloodwork up or offended you. Like I said I'm a big fan of everyone who is investing their time and money into the game. I just agree with James that we can take some easy and huge steps forward via a CIS framework that is grossly under-utilized and right under our noses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MLS SuperDraft First Round picks from the NCAA:

2000 - 9/12

2001 - 8/12

2002 - 10/12

2003 - 8/10

2004 - 9/10

2005 - 11/12

2006 - 12/12

2007 - 12/13

2008 - 12/14

2009 - 15/15

2010 - 15/16

You do realize this is, for all intents and purposes, a college draft? No matter how good or bad NCAA soccer is, you would get these numbers...

What can the CSL offer that a well-run CIS program can't? Coaching? Hardly. Anyone can hire anyone. Facilities? Turf? Indoor through the Winter? Hardly, CSL teams can never provide a margin of what CIS programs have. Medical? Marketing? The CIS can provide anything the CSL can.

Here is the crux of the matter. CIS has all these advantages (facility, infrastructure, player base, fan base, etc) in place and has for years... so the question isn't why can't they do it but rather why don't they do it? Have you ever tried approaching a university to get them to 'think outside the box' when it comes to sports? In the GTA at least, you'd be wasting your time...

And, no offence, but your NCAA women's program examples carry very little weight in this discussion. There are many other factors that contribute to the large investment made in the women's game in the US - not the least of which is the need to offset contribution to Men's football in order to comply with Title IX.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do realize this is, for all intents and purposes, a college draft? No matter how good or bad NCAA soccer is, you would get these numbers...

Here is the crux of the matter. CIS has all these advantages (facility, infrastructure, player base, fan base, etc) in place and has for years... so the question isn't why can't they do it but rather why don't they do it? Have you ever tried approaching a university to get them to 'think outside the box' when it comes to sports? In the GTA at least, you'd be wasting your time...

And, no offence, but your NCAA women's program examples carry very little weight in this discussion. There are many other factors that contribute to the large investment made in the women's game in the US - not the least of which is the need to offset contribution to Men's football in order to comply with Title IX.

^ Regina doesn't even have a men's team as far as I know...and our women's team is the worst in CIS.

Nobody cares, and nobody will make any attempt to change it. If new money comes in, it will be invested in the Rams Football and Cougars Basketball.

Better to invest the money in regional semi-pro leagues that care about the sport because it means their survival than CIS which views sports as something done on the side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Odd because the non-NCAA players in all those draft years were from kids in American clubs and academies.

so the question isn't why can't they do it but rather why don't they do it? Have you ever tried approaching a university to get them to 'think outside the box' when it comes to sports? In the GTA at least, you'd be wasting your time...

No, never tried in the GTA but good point. If James was still at York I would think based on the article he would perhaps be conducive to pushing the limits of the CIS constitution. I think that's the big blocking issue and where the CSA would have to approach them to make change. Not something that costs a lot of CSA money, more leadership and partnering between the two to come up with a favourable solution for both. Having CIS schools partner with clubs is great, and if they won't allow it there is always a smart person out there to find a way around it. Schools like TWU and CBU are already pushing the envelopes.

And, no offence, but your NCAA women's program examples carry very little weight in this discussion. There are many other factors that contribute to the large investment made in the women's game in the US - not the least of which is the need to offset contribution to Men's football in order to comply with Title IX.

None taken at all. I would second that the context of men's and women's development are very different cases.

What most people are unaware of is that besides being is a law representing half the athletes in the USA (which has turned them into one of the top two programs in the world), numerical gender equality and opportunity is also an accepted and agreed upon CIS standard in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Agreed 100% (oops, to VPjr's post). Name one professional sport in Canada (other than CFL) that signs any significant number of players from CIS.

Yeah, but name another professional sports league in Canada besides the NHL? NHL has the CHL providing them with players. CFL has the CIS. CIS developing players in 1 of our 2 professional leagues isn't a bad ratio. Why can't the CIS start developing MLS guys? It isn't far fetched.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, but name another professional sports league in Canada besides the NHL? NHL has the CHL providing them with players. CFL has the CIS. CIS developing players in 1 of our 2 professional leagues isn't a bad ratio. Why can't the CIS start developing MLS guys? It isn't far fetched.

CIS produces Canadian football players for the CFL because of the quota system that props it up. if You drop the non-import quota from the CFL rule book, then you can pretty much kiss goodbye the usefulness of CIS football as a player development league.

The reality is that, to train to be a professional, you need to structure your entire operation around doing just that. CIS and NCAA simply do not train soccer players to be a professional, at least not according to generally recognized standards that exist throughout the world. The combination of Short seasons featuring highly compressed game schedules, inadequate training time, an unwillingness to hire the most qualified soccer people to work as Coaches (try getting a coaching job at a university with only a high school or college diploma...not going to happen but that disqualifies many excellent soccer people who are educated in soccer but who don't hold a 3 or 4 year degree), etc... makes it almost impossible for schools to be considered as viable for player development.

As Lino stated, the question isn't why can't they do it....rather it is why DON'T they do it. It is my opinion that they DON'T do it because, at least in Canada, a post secondary institute of higher learning exists to provide an education to its students. They are not incubators for want-to-be professional athletes on behalf of wealthy Pro sports clubs and personally, I don't want to see my tax dollars directed in that way. Pro sports leagues have been sucking on the teet of the tax payer by downloading the cost of player development onto colleges and universities (many of which are publicly funded), community sports clubs, etc... without ever contibuting a penny back. At least, in CHL, if a player gets drafted by an NHL club, the NHL club is obligated to pay a fairly substantial amount of money for those players to compensate a fellow professional organization for the cost of the work they have put in. Same if they pluck a player from an overseas club. In the "real" soccer world (outside North America), pro clubs choose to either invest in their own professional development or pay smaller clubs to do it for them. MLS and USL/NASL clubs are starting to look at investing in professional development and kudos to them. They're not doing it because they love spending that money. They are doing it, in part, because they have seen how inadequate the alternative is.

We can try to make the argument "college sports develops players for baseball, football, etc...." but those are not global sports. Soccer is. We compete against the WHOLE world. If we want to become winners rather than just participants, if we want to see our country do well internationally rather than just show up and be counted, we need to be prepared to make the necessary investment in the development of professional soccer (3 MLS teams and a few 2nd tier NASL/USL teams just won't cut it). In the rest of the world, it is the lower tiers of professional soccer that have been proven to be incubators for professional players and they have a financial incentive to do so. It's not a perfect system, but it works better (far better) than what we've got.

Long tem, the only fit I see for our colleges and universities in the sport of soccer would involve those institutions affiliating with pro clubs so that those clubs can make use of the athletic facilities that the schools have invested in and in return, the pro club offers some sort of service in return to the school (i.e. providing coaches for their varsity team, jointly running summer camps, etc...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...